L33TRice
L33TRice
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 7
Joined: Apr 2, 2012
April 16th, 2012 at 1:57:40 PM permalink
The hit frequency on the Atkins Video Slot is listed as 6.572% per line. Is there a way to mathematically determine the hit frequency for betting on all lines at once?
Conventional math tells me that you take the "loss frequency", in this case, .93428 (1 - .06572), take the 20th power of that number and subtract that from 1. That is: hit freq (all lines) = 1 - (0.93428)^20 = 0.74323, however in practice this seems wrong, and the true hit frequency appears to be much lower. The other way I see of determining this is through brute force, but obviously that is less ideal.

Thanks!
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1911
Joined: May 10, 2011
April 16th, 2012 at 2:08:43 PM permalink
You would need to use brute force since the player can get wins on multiple paylines. You could use your calculation only if all lines are independent. Of course, they're not.
I heart Crystal Math.
L33TRice
L33TRice
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 7
Joined: Apr 2, 2012
April 16th, 2012 at 2:23:11 PM permalink
Unfortunate, but thank you for the quick response.

I realize Part of my equation is wrong anyways, because you have to remove the probability for scatter which is 0.011185 (since they are line agnostic) and add it separately after the calculation. Hit Freq = (1 - (1 - (0.06572 - 0.011185))^20) + 0.011185 = .685415

Though again, this doesn't really matter because like you said, all the lines are independent, so this is wrong.
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1911
Joined: May 10, 2011
April 16th, 2012 at 4:42:20 PM permalink
Good catch on the scatter. Too bad it doesn't help. Out of curiosity, why do you want the hit frequency on all lines?
I heart Crystal Math.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1493
  • Posts: 26489
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
April 16th, 2012 at 4:47:05 PM permalink
I get asked this from time to time. I've been meaning to do a simulation on Hexbreaker to get at the answer. However, alas, I have not found the time.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
JB
Administrator
JB
  • Threads: 334
  • Posts: 2089
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
Thanked by
Dorukan
April 16th, 2012 at 9:27:41 PM permalink
For the Atkins Diet game and the 20 paylines it uses, the hit frequency when playing all lines is 15513712/325 ≈ 46.2345% ≈ 1 in 2.163 spins.

This calculation reflects having deemed a spin a winning spin if it contained at least one payline win (even if it was less than the total bet) and/or a scatter win.

Note: Edited to reflect corrected figures.
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1911
Joined: May 10, 2011
Thanked by
Dorukan
April 16th, 2012 at 9:52:41 PM permalink
Quote: JB

For the Atkins Diet game and the 20 paylines it uses, the hit frequency when playing all lines is 2182514/325 ≈ 0.065044 ≈ 1 in 15.3742 spins.

This calculation reflects having deemed a spin a winning spin if it contained at least one payline win (even if it was less than the total bet) and/or a scatter win.



There has got to be something amiss here. This is very close to the frequency of playing 1 line. I would expect the win frequency to be better than 1 in 2 when playing all 20 lines. Just 15 spins of the game will reveal that the hit frequency is far better than 1 in 15.
I heart Crystal Math.
JB
Administrator
JB
  • Threads: 334
  • Posts: 2089
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
Thanked by
Dorukan
April 16th, 2012 at 10:41:24 PM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

There has got to be something amiss here. This is very close to the frequency of playing 1 line. I would expect the win frequency to be better than 1 in 2 when playing all 20 lines. Just 15 spins of the game will reveal that the hit frequency is far better than 1 in 15.


I found my mistake. I had the payline configurations as an array of numbers, and inside the loop that checks each payline, I was decoding the loop counter itself as opposed to the number corresponding to the loop counter (if the array is payline[] and the loop counter is x, I was decoding x itself intsead of payline[x] ).

The corrected figure is 15513712/325 ≈ 46.2345% ≈ 1 in 2.163.

Thank you! It took me a while to identify the problem.
L33TRice
L33TRice
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 7
Joined: Apr 2, 2012
Thanked by
Dorukan
April 23rd, 2012 at 11:39:39 AM permalink
Quote: JB

For the Atkins Diet game and the 20 paylines it uses, the hit frequency when playing all lines is 15513712/325 ≈ 46.2345% ≈ 1 in 2.163 spins.

This calculation reflects having deemed a spin a winning spin if it contained at least one payline win (even if it was less than the total bet) and/or a scatter win.

Note: Edited to reflect corrected figures.


Where does the number 15513712 come from? (I apologize if this is obvious, but I can't seem to see it).

Quote: CrystalMath

Good catch on the scatter. Too bad it doesn't help. Out of curiosity, why do you want the hit frequency on all lines?


Just to get a general "feel" for a machine.
JB
Administrator
JB
  • Threads: 334
  • Posts: 2089
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
Thanked by
Dorukan
April 23rd, 2012 at 12:09:01 PM permalink
Quote: L33TRice

Where does the number 15513712 come from? (I apologize if this is obvious, but I can't seem to see it).


It is the total number of spins where at least one payline contains a win and/or a scatter win occurs. While this figure could probably be derived mathematically, I chose to analyze every possible screen for a win; out of the 325 possible screens, 15,513,712 of them had some sort of win.
L33TRice
L33TRice
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 7
Joined: Apr 2, 2012
April 23rd, 2012 at 2:09:42 PM permalink
I think the consensus is that you can't derive that mathematically and it has to be brute forced. If anyone can figure that out mathematically, please let me know! :)
  • Jump to: