Random Number Generation in Casinos and in your computer simulations

If this has been answered somewhere, my apologies, I couldn't find it. I am curious to know how the random numbers in your computer simulations are generated and also if you happen to know how the random numbers are generated in casino games, Video Blackjack or Video Keno, for instance.

As you know, many computer programs, use a number to start or seed the series, often seeded based on system time or a user keypress as an example, and then use a formula or function, rand() for instance, to generate a series of pseudo-random numbers.

Curious to know if there are better methods in use, or if this generates satisfactory results.

The pseudo random number generators seem to be adequate to the task. Computer scientists can argue their weaknesses and mathematicians can argue whether the results are truly random or can be proven to be random, but the actual results seem to satisfy the requirements of the situation irrespective of procedural defects.

So the chips are considered random enough for use though often not considered to random enough in theoretical discussions.

if you followed some old threads here , there have been some funny and interesting things that have happened:

IIRC a casino in Canada kept turning off their Keno machine and it would start it's day with the same numbers all the time

you had the incident of Ron Harris, who, it seemed to be determined here, figured out that Atlantic City just borrowed the same formula for RNG that he was fully informed about due to his job in Nevada Gaming Commission, and was able to predict the Keno numbers in Atlantic City

No computer can generate random numbers, so the name is a misnomer. I do believe you have a list of real random numbers and just an opaque system for re-adjusting the starting point to simulate random numbers that don't *repeat* in a predictable way

I am new here, so haven't seen the older threads, but I will read through the forums. I laughed out loud when I read about the Keno games getting turned off and starting the morning with the same numbers. Not sure if it's accurate, but I recall hearing a story about a Video Poker (or BlackJack) machine in which it was possible to determine where it was in it's sequence of 'random' numbers and win.

My girlfriend loved the keno story too. I actually came across this site searching for a Keno machine. My girlfriend simply cannot leave Cleopatra Keno alone at the Casino in Arizona and I was trying to price them. No idea if the idea is even viable, but she said she'd be happy playing at home - I figured a $5000 machine pays itself off the first year. I have to admit I am curious to find out if something like this would truly satiate her desire and if I would have to leave the machine locked. I am guessing yes, so as to keep the money 'real'. Gambling with play money doesn't satisfy her. Assuming I can purchase one, I am predicting that she gets bored of it quickly and wants to return to the casino, though this is strictly a hunch.

I wonder if this counts as attempting to hijack my own thread. lol. Nice to meet you all, I look forward to some interesting discussions.

Thats great about your girlfriend's love of video keno. I know Keno has a very high house edge and I guess video keno must have a steep house edge to it also if its a different game or subject to different payout rules.

One thing that came to mind is that old movie Whose Got The Action with Dean Martin and Walter Mattau. It was a comedy based on an actual situation wherein a woman realized that since her husband was gambling and losing, she would become his bookie. In the real life situation, apparently the woman accumulated a substantial nest egg, but in the movie they had the wife suffer a humungous win after the first few weeks.

So maybe having a Cleopatra Keno machine in your basement that paid real money might be cheaper for you in the long run, but I don't think Arizona law would allow it. Arizona would say it was a casino in your home even though only your wife played on the machine and the FBI would frown on a real gambling device being shipped across state lines.

As to those non-random Keno results, those stories may be from the old days. I think now the pseudo random number generator chips are random enough that the casinos really don't worry too much if they are ultra-random.

I agree with Fleastiff that RNG's used in modern casino games are more than adequate for the task. The field has come a long way since the Ron Harris type stories. However, the =rand() RNG in Visual Studio is terrible, not that anyone would put it in a casino game. I believe it repeats odds and evens every 2^15 (32,748) draws. Excel repeats exactly every 10^13 draws (source). Personally, for my calculations, I use a Mersenne Twister, which I have not found any problem with.

Quote: FleaStiff

So maybe having a Cleopatra Keno machine in your basement that paid real money might be cheaper for you in the long run, but I don't think Arizona law would allow it. Arizona would say it was a casino in your home even though only your wife played on the machine and the FBI would frown on a real gambling device being shipped across state lines.

Slots for personal use are completely legal in Arizona, as long as it's not conducted as a business. In jfergie's case, that would be perfectly fine for what he wants to do with it.

Probably more details

jfergie, if you Google "slot machines near" your ZIP code, you should come up with several stores within about a half an hour drive (I assume you live in Phoenix metro from your broad hint to Casino Arizona). My guess is you could get a Game King multi-poker/keno machine for under $3000; it's just a matter of getting it set up with the Cleopatra Keno ROMs.