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6 members have voted
Here it is:
- There are five houses.
- The Englishman lives in the red house.
- The Spaniard owns the dog.
- Coffee is drunk in the green house.
- The Ukrainian drinks tea.
- The green house is immediately to the right of the ivory house.
- The Old Gold smoker owns snails.
- Kools are smoked in the yellow house.
- Milk is drunk in the middle house.
- The Norwegian lives in the first house (from the left).
- The man who smokes Chesterfields lives in the house next to the man with the fox.
- Kools are smoked in the house next to the house where the horse is kept.
- The Lucky Strike smoker drinks orange juice.
- The Japanese smokes Parliaments.
- The Norwegian lives next to the blue house.
Questions:
Now, who drinks water?
Who owns the zebra?
For extra credit, provide the nationality, color, drink, smoke, and pet in all five house by order.
The parenthetical remark about the Norwegian and the first house is mine.
If you are going to participate in this thread, please don't cheat by searching.
No particular question, other than the puzzle itself. It is time for me to pass on the agony and the ecstasy (hard word to spell).
The question for the puzzle is what do you think of it?
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Quote: unJonI think I’ve done this one before. Isn’t this the Einstein logic game puzzle?
link to original post
Some people call it that. There is no evidence, that I'm aware of, that Einstein had anything to do with it.
Quote: Wizard
Questions:
Now, who drinks water?
Who owns the zebra?
For extra credit, provide the nationality, color, drink, smoke, and pet in all five house by order.
I am assuming that only one person drinks water, and only one owns a zebra.
So far, I have gotten that the Norwegian drinks water (and lives in the yellow house, and smokes Kools - still working on the pet).
A zebra is never mentioned in the clues, so how can one deduce who owns it?
Maybe the answer (duh) would have to be "No body owns a zebra."
Basically you have to chart them rapidly, using Venn Diagrams or connecting lines, a sort of overlap or lack of overlap logic, or arranging them in order (hierarchy), and then solve. Anyone who has "studied" for the LSAT remembers doing hundreds of these things, timed.
This one is more complex than any single LSAT question that I recall, though.
Quote: ThatDonGuyI am assuming that only one person drinks water, and only one owns a zebra.
That's correct. Every house has a unique owner, pet, drink, smoke, and color.
Quote: MrVA zebra is never mentioned in the clues, so how can one deduce who owns it?
link to original post
It's implied the fifth pet is the zebra. The other four are mentioned.
Process of elimination ...
Quote: MDawgThese sorts of "games" remind me of LSAT questions. You may get better and better at them with practice, but as far as how fast you may solve them, everyone's mind is different and some people will never be able to solve them as quickly as others.
link to original post
Basically you have to chart them rapidly, using Venn Diagrams or connecting lines, a sort of overlap or lack of overlap logic, or arranging them in order (hierarchy), and then solve. Anyone who has "studied" for the LSAT remembers doing hundreds of these things, timed.
This one is more complex than any single LSAT question that I recall, though.
This is a tough, tedious, and time-consuming puzzle. I don't think I could solve it in the time it takes to take the LSAT. Especially under time pressure.
Personally, I spent several hours on it back in July and never solved it. Then I forgot about it for two months. Then I came back to it and after several more hours, finally figured it out. Not just the two questions, but all the connections.
The person who told me this puzzle said JFK solved it in two hours, but who knows if that's true.
Quote: WizardThat's correct. Every house has a unique owner, pet, drink, smoke, and color.
Bah. I consider that a flaw then, because that wasn't designated as a condition. Every individual mentioned drinks water in some form.
Quote: WizardI must admit I was asked this puzzle back in July. I have tinkered with it off and on since then. Usually, my efforts led to a contradiction towards the end and I had to start all over. However, I finally got it today.
link to original post
Here it is:
Questions:
Now, who drinks water?
Who owns the zebra?
For extra credit, provide the nationality, color, drink, smoke, and pet in all five house by order.
The parenthetical remark about the Norwegian and the first house is mine.
If you are going to participate in this thread, please don't cheat by searching.
No particular question, other than the puzzle itself. It is time for me to pass on the agony and the ecstasy (hard word to spell).
The question for the puzzle is what do you think of it?
SPOILER: THE SPOILER CONTAINS THE FULL SOLUTION, SO ONLY OPEN IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE FULL SOLUTION
(Quote clipped to limit duplication)
Two hours.
Two hours, Wizard.
I have been doing this for TWO HOURS?
Would you like to know why? Because I saw this post and I knew that I could. As usual with these things, the REAL clues are the ones that look like they're not actually helping you that much. Being able to figure it out with just straight positive or straight negative statements would be too easy, but you have to assemble the information you can assemble and look for that tiny little hint that allows process of elimination to remove something.
Two godforsaken hours. I don't think I can forgive you for this.
Anyway, these are just like the logic puzzle books you find in the magazine section of the store. Essentially, you have to list each possible condition (House Number, Color, Animal, Drink, Smokes, Nationality) as if you are trying to solve for that and only that, but then put them all together and figure it out when you run out of known facts.
Essentially, you end up with a statement like, "Because a cannot be b or c, but has to be x or y and y MUST be either b or c, a must be x." That sort of thing.
Anyway, I did these books all the time when I was growing up because I liked them, they were cheap, I spent a lot of time at my Great-Grandma's, she had no cable and Internet wasn't really a thing in my area yet.
And, I have now done it again. I had to. Because I knew I could.
House 1: Norwegian, Yellow, Water, Kools, Fox
House 2: Ukrainian, Blue, Tea, Chesterfield, Horse
House 3: Englishman, Red, Milk, Old Gold, Snails
House 4: Spaniard, Ivory, Orange Juice, Lucky Strike, Dog
House 5: Japanese, Green, Coffee, Parliament, Zebra
Proof that I didn't cheat is available, upon request, for the next 24 hours. I have some eight total sides of notebook paper and one piece of computer paper with notes, tables and propositions all over them. I'm throwing them away this time tomorrow because anyone who sees them will think that I am clearly insane. I also can't promise anyone will be able to read these materials.
Seriously, imagine looking at my paperwork and seeing, "Chesterfield Fox Neighbor," probably think it was some sort of code for who knows what.
I voted, "I am a bigot." I am not happy. I am not proud. I pity myself because I saw this and almost had no other choice but to figure it out.
Quote: ThatDonGuyI am assuming that only one person drinks water, and only one owns a zebra.
link to original post
So far, I have gotten that the Norwegian drinks water (and lives in the yellow house, and smokes Kools - still working on the pet).
Yeah, this would be even tougher if that part hadn't been frontloaded.
Quote: MrV*scraches head*
link to original post
A zebra is never mentioned in the clues, so how can one deduce who owns it?
Maybe the answer (duh) would have to be "No body owns a zebra."
By knowing what animals go to what other people, houses, beverages, cigarette preference or house color...
The whole thing is interconnected. The first thing that you have to do is treat separately what you can, then you have to look at things as two-fold propositions...if that changes anything, then go back to seeing if that gives you any separate facts, then back to two-fold propositions, then three-fold...etc.
The quickest way to do it (I used to be good at these, apparently not anymore) is by having a list of positive statements and a list of NOT statements for each category. Eventually, with the vast majority of these, you end up reduced to process of elimination, so it ends up being important to figure out what TWO OR THREE things cannot simultaneously be true, or even simultaneously be false based on what you know to be false.
It's really tricky to explain because it kind of combines mathematical logic with verbal logic.
Quote: MissionTwo hours....
Congratulations! I checked your answer and agree.
I may test you with a similar puzzle the next time you're in Vegas.
As for me, I initially used air sickness bags on the Alaska Ferry for notes. After I returned home, I did everything in Excel.
Quote: WizardCongratulations! I checked your answer and agree.
link to original post
I may test you with a similar puzzle the next time you're in Vegas.
As for me, I initially used air sickness bags on the Alaska Ferry for notes. After I returned home, I did everything in Excel.
Excel would be tough for me to use. I prefer just a notebook and a pen.
Thank you for the congratulations, but I decline your challenge in advance, unless that's the only proof you'll accept that I didn't cheat. I strongly dislike these sorts of puzzles (even though I liked them when I was a kid) and avoid them at all costs.
I found no enjoyment, satisfaction or relief in solving it. I was mainly irritated that I'm apparently much slower than I was when I was legally a child. I also have a headache.
Actually, not just legally. I was definitely faster at this as an actual child.
Quote: billryanIt took me twelve minutes to come up with what I guess is the wrong answer.
link to original post
I'll be irate if it isn't. lol
1. There are five houses.
2. The Englishman lives in the red house.
3. The Spaniard owns the dog.
4. Coffee is drunk in the green house.
5. The Ukrainian drinks tea.
6. The green house is immediately to the right of the ivory house.
7. The Old Gold smoker owns snails.
8. Kools are smoked in the yellow house.
9. Milk is drunk in the middle house.
10. The Norwegian lives in the first house (from the left).
11. The man who smokes Chesterfields lives in the house next to the man with the fox.
12. Kools are smoked in the house next to the house where the horse is kept.
13. The Lucky Strike smoker drinks orange juice.
14. The Japanese smokes Parliaments.
15. The Norwegian lives next to the blue house.
House 1: +NORWEGIAN +YELLOW +KOOLS +WATER +FOX
House 2: +BLUE +HORSE + UKRANIAN + TEA + CHESTERFIELD
House 3: +MILK
House 4:
House 5:
Englishman: +REDHOUSE (NOT WATER) (NOT KOOLS)
Spaniard: +DOG (NOT WATER) (NOT KOOLS) (NOT YELLOW)
Ukranian: +TEA (NOT KOOLS) (NOT YELLOW)
Norwegian: +HOUSE 1 ///BLUENEXTDOOR +YELLOWHOUSE (NOT Coffee) (NOT Milk) (NOT Tea)
Japanese: +PARLIAMENTS (NOT YELLOW) (NOT WATER)
Red House: +ENGLISHMAN
Green House: +COFFEE +RIGHTOFIVORYHOUSE (NOT "House 1") (NOT Ukranian) (NOT "House 3") (NOT Norweigian) (NOT Englishman) ("NOT House 2")
Blue House: ///NORWEGIANNEXTDOOR
Ivory House: +LEFTOFGREENHOUSE (Not "House 5")
Yellow House: +HOUSE1
Old Gold: +SNAILS
Kools: +YELLOWHOUSE ///NEXTTOHORSEHOUSE
Chesterfields: ///NEXTTOFOXHOUSE
Parliaments: +JAPANESE
Lucky Strike: +ORANGEJUICE
Fox: ///CHESTERFIELDNEXTDOOR
Horse: ///KOOLSNEXTDOOR
Zebra: Don't Bother***
Dog: +SPANIARD
Snails: +OLDGOLD
Milk: +HOUSE3
Orange Juice: +LUCKYSTRIKE
Tea: +UKRANIAN
Coffee: +GREENHOUSE
Water: Don't Bother***
NOTE KEYS:
+---The plus sign means this definitely goes with this.
(NOT)---This means this does not go with this.
///---Slashes tell you about something closely related. These are usually secretly the most helpful.
***You don't bother with these because you are told nothing about them other than they exist.
EARLY SOLUTIONS
1.) We are told that the Norwegian lives in the first house (10) and next to the blue house (15), so the second house must be the blue house.
2.) We know that the Green House drinks coffee and is NOT the first house, because the Norwegian lives there. We also know that it is not the first house, because the first house is not to the right of anything. From 1.), we know that the second house IS blue, so the green house cannot be the blue house. We KNOW that the green house MUST be to the right of the ivory house, so it cannot be HOUSE 3, or it would be to the right of the blue house.
Therefore, the Green House MUST either be House 4 or House 5
3.) We KNOW that House 1 cannot be the Ivory House because the house to its right is Blue and the Green House must be to the right of the Ivory House. We KNOW that House 1 cannot be Red because the Norwegian lives there and Red MUST belong to the Englishman. Therefore, House 1 is NOT Red, Ivory, Green, or Blue and MUST be Yellow.
4.) We KNOW that the Norwegian does NOT drink coffee, because coffee is drunk in the Green House. We KNOW that the Norwegian does not drink Milk, because milk is drunk in the third house. We KNOW that the Norwegian does not drink Tea because the Ukranian drinks Tea. The Norwegian must drink either water or orange juice.
5.) We KNOW that House 1 is the Norwegian and is Yellow, thus, House 1 MUST smoke Kools.
6.) The smoker of Lucky Strikes drinks orange juice, House 1 smokes Kools...House 1 is the Norwegian, the Norwegian does NOT drink coffee, milk or tea...now we know he also doesn't drink orange juice, so House 1 CAN ONLY drink water.
7.) Because Kools ARE smoked in the house next to the horse, and House 1 smokes the Kools, the Horse MUST be in House 2.
8.) The Green House drinks Coffee and MUST be House 4 or House 5. House 3 drinks milk.
9.) House 3 does NOT smoke Kools because House 1 does. House 3 does NOT smoke Lucky Strikes because that person drinks orange juice. Here are the possibilities for House 3:
Smokes Old Gold + Owns Snails
Smokes Parliaments and is Japanese
Smokes Chesterfields and lives next to a man with a fox---House #4 would have a fox, in this case.
10.) The Ukranian drinks tea, so CANNOT live in House 3 and Does Not live in House 1, because that is the Norwegian. The Ukranian does NOT smoke Kools because House 1 smokes those. The Ukranian does NOT smoke Parliaments because he is not Japanese. The Ukranian does NOT smoke Lucky Strikes because he does not drink orange juice. Therefore, the possibilities:
The Ukranian smokes Old Gold and owns snails.
Smokes Chesterfields and lives next to a house with a fox.
11.) IF the Ukranian smokes Chesterfields, then he MUST live in House #2 and a Fox MUST live in House #1 or House #3.
12.) The Ukranian can NOT live in a Green House because he drinks tea and the Green House drinks coffee.
13.) (LEAP OF FAITH) Clue #15 references the Norwegian living next to the blue house, which is House #2. Clue #11 is the only other clue that cares about what a neighbor is doing that doesn't involve house color and answers the only thing we don't know about House #1, if true. SEE #14 and #15...
14.) House 1 does NOT have a Horse, because a Horse lives in House 2. House 1 is NOT the Spaniard, so does not have a dog. House 1 does NOT smoke Old Gold, so does not keep Snails.
House 1 either has a fox or a zebra.
15.) (LEAP OF FAITH) A clue for House 1 refers to House 2. If House 1 has a fox, then that would mean a clue for House 2 would be referring back to House 1. More than that, ZEBRA and WATER are the only two items for which we are not provided any facts, but we already know WATER goes to House 1 because nothing else can go there, so would WATER and ZEBRA really both go to House 1? Doubtful.
This would also complete Houses 1 and 2.
Also, can go back and change this if it doesn't work out...so put *** as a point of uncertainty.
16.) The remaining three houses are red, ivory and green. The green house MUST NOT be the third house, because it must go to the right of the ivory house. Here are the possibilities:
Red-Ivory-Green
Ivory-Green-Red
TAKE AN INVENTORY OF REMAINING ITEMS AND RESTART
House 1: +NORWEGIAN +YELLOW +KOOLS +WATER +FOX
House 2: +BLUE +HORSE + UKRANIAN + TEA + CHESTERFIELD
House 3: +MILK +RED +ENGLISHMAN + OLD GOLD +SNAILS
House 4: +SPANIARD +DOG +IVORY +ORANGE JUICE +LUCKY STRIKES
House 5: +JAPANESE +PARLIAMENTS +COFFEE +GREEN +ZEBRA
Smokes:
Parliament +JAPANESE
Lucky Strike (NOTJAPANESE)
Old Gold (NOTJAPANESE) + SNAILS
Houses:
House 3 (NOT GREEN) (NOT SPANIARD)
House 4
House 5 (NOT IVORY)
Colors:
Red +ENGLISHMAN
Green (NOT HOUSE 3) +COFFEE
Ivory (NOT HOUSE 5)
People:
Japanese +PARLIAMENT
Englishman +RED HOUSE
Spaniard +DOG (NOT HOUSE 3) +LUCKY STRIKES + ORANGE JUICE (NOT RED) (NOT GREEN) +IVORY +HOUSE4
Pets:
Dog +SPANIARD
Snails +OLDGOLD
Zebra Don't Bother
Drinks:
Milk: +HOUSE 3
Orange Juice: +LUCKY STRIKES +SPANIARD
Coffee: +GREENHOUSE
17.) House 3 drinks milk. The Green House drinks coffee. House 3 cannot be green, but we already knew that. House 3 does NOT smoke Lucky Strikes because that is what Orange Juice smokes. Possibilities for House 3:
+MILK
---Is Ivory or Red
-Smokes Parliaments and is Japanese or smokes Old Gold and has snails.
FACT: The Spaniard is NOT Japanese. The Spaniard does NOT have snails because he has a dog. The Spaniard CANNOT live in House 3 because he does not satisfy either of the possible conditions.
18.) The Spaniard CANNOT smoke Old Gold because he has a dog. The Spaniard CANNOT smoke Parliaments because he is not Japanese.
19.) The Spaniard MUST smoke Lucky Strikes.
20.) The Spaniard lives either in House 4 or House 5.
21.) The Spaniard cannot live in a green house, because he drinks Orange Juice and smokes Lucky Strikes. The Green House drinks Coffee. The Green House CAN NOT be House 3. The Spaniard CAN NOT be House 3. The Spaniard MUST live in House 4 which MUST be Ivory.
22.) House 3 MUST be the Red House and the Englishman lives in the red house.
23.) The Japanese smokes Parliaments and the only other cigarette brand is Old Gold, so the Englishman who lives in Red House 3 must smoke Old Gold and have Snails.
24.) The Japanese smokes Parliaments and lives in House 5 Green and must have a zebra because there are no other animals.
Okay, some of you might question the legitimacy of Step #15, but that's a perfectly legitimate tactic for these. The most important thing is not to do that really early in one of these puzzles and always make a note of where your, "Point of Departure," was at.
The big thing if you are going to do something like Step #15 is to not have assumed anything before that and DON'T assume anything after that. Otherwise, it will be hard to tell where you went wrong. If you make exactly ONE assumption or educated guess, but you are 100% sure everything before that was right, then you know where you need to go back and restart if you end up with a contradiction later on.
Had the assumption in Step #15 been wrong, then we would have known:
And, could operate starting from the other binary possibility...except the possibility would have become FACT because we would know that the first possibility that we used as an assumption was wrong.
Quote: billryanThis time, I'm going to use pencil and paper.
link to original post
Computers have made me irrelevant...looks like I was born just in time. I might have been useful had I been born 40+ years before I actually was.
I created ten matrices for each combination of the way to match any two items. Here is how it looked blank.
There were side notes that pertained to the order of the houses.
Then I simply filled it in, slowly. Most of it was simply this logic, over and over:
The Wizard lives in a red house
Mission lives in a blue house
Wizard has a horse.
Mission drinks milk.
We could then say the horse does not live with the milk drinker.
I think our methods play to our strengths. Your method is more analytical in the computer science/programming sense of the term, whereas my method follows more of a verbal logical progression. My mathematical and formal logic is obviously, at least, passable, but approaching the situation verbally is playing most to my strengths.
I also drew similar charts, but those were mostly just to organize known, "TRUE," propositions and known "FALSE," propositions.
Quote: Mission146I tried to print out charts, but the computer doesn't seem to know how to tell the printer what to do today and I have no idea how to fix that.
link to original post
Now add a new complexity turning all of them into aunts, second cousins, married to brothers or who is the half brother of the grandfather.and so forth.
Then figure out who had the baby with the Irishman, who is now the older cousin, of the stepbrother. .
Quote: rxwineQuote: Mission146I tried to print out charts, but the computer doesn't seem to know how to tell the printer what to do today and I have no idea how to fix that.
link to original post
Now add a new complexity turning all of them into aunts, second cousins, married to brothers or who is the half brother of the grandfather.and so forth.
Then figure out who had the baby with the Irishman, who is now the older cousin, of the stepbrother. .link to original post
I'm originally from West Virginia---sometimes aunts and second cousins are the same person, so that makes it a little easier.
Quote: Mission146
Two godforsaken hours. I don't think I can forgive you for this.
Anyway, these are just like the logic puzzle books you find in the magazine section of the store.
Binary sudoku are nice and relaxing.
Quote: DieterQuote: Mission146
Two godforsaken hours. I don't think I can forgive you for this.
Anyway, these are just like the logic puzzle books you find in the magazine section of the store.
Binary sudoku are nice and relaxing.link to original post
Haha!!!
Sudoku is actually okay. I got into the Sudoku books a little bit when I worked at the hotel and nothing was going on at the forum.
It’s fun until you’re breezing through the hardest ones, then you have to stop doing it for several months so that you suck and it’s a challenge again.
Quote: Mission146Quote: DieterQuote: Mission146
Two godforsaken hours. I don't think I can forgive you for this.
Anyway, these are just like the logic puzzle books you find in the magazine section of the store.
Binary sudoku are nice and relaxing.link to original post
Haha!!!
Sudoku is actually okay. I got into the Sudoku books a little bit when I worked at the hotel and nothing was going on at the forum.
It’s fun until you’re breezing through the hardest ones, then you have to stop doing it for several months so that you suck and it’s a challenge again.link to original post
You start with a 10x10 grid, with 1 cell filled in.
You should be able to get all 100 cells solved with that.
You also get to play with the crayons.
I have been so busy, I haven't had a chance to tackle it since. But I'm amazed that JFK found two hours to work on this. I think he might have solved it even faster if they had replaced the Pets category with "Movie Starlets being boinked."
Quote: Mission146Okay, some of you might question the legitimacy of Step #15, but that's a perfectly legitimate tactic for these. The most important thing is not to do that really early in one of these puzzles and always make a note of where your, "Point of Departure," was at.
I solved it (finally, after about 10 attempts that resulted in errors) without making that assumption:
1, Norwegian, Yellow, Water, Fox, Kool
2, Ukrainian, Blue, Tea, Horse, Chesterfield
3, English, Red, Milk, Snail, Old Gold
4, Spaniard, Ivory, Orange Juice, Dog, Lucky Strike
5, Japan, Green, Coffee, Zebra, Parliament
I have been doing these, on and off, for something like 50 years - they're called "Logic Problems" by Dell Publications. I use the "chart" method the Wizard uses.
The solution is pretty much, "Begin with the initial conditions, then, for each known pair (e.g. Kool and Yellow), mark off the pairs that are not possible; eventually, all of the pairs are known.
There are some additional things that needed to be noted in this one:
Clue 6: The green house is immediately to the right of the ivory house.
This means that the green house is not 1, and the ivory house is not 5; since the blue house is 2 (by clues 10 and 15), the ivory house cannot be 1, and the green house cannot be 3. This means the ivory and green houses are either 3 and 4 or 4 and 5, so house 4 cannot be red or yellow (we already know it is not blue).
Clue 12: Kools are smoked in the house next to the house where the horse is kept.
You can determine early on that Kools are smoked in 1, so Horse must be in 2.
Clue 11: The man who smokes Chesterfields lives in the house next to the man with the fox.
When you determine where Chesterfields are smoked, you can eliminate Fox from the three locations not next to that one.
I still maintain that assumptions are a defensible tactic if you get to the point where you're making a binary assumption that solves for multiple things simultaneously. I was able to complete this in two attempts, (my first attempt showed my rust) but it would have most likely been three even if my assumption had been wrong.
This would definitely be in the, "Challenging," section of those books, though, or whatever vernacular your particular books used.
Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaNSHQOrSX8