Gamblor33
Gamblor33
Joined: Oct 28, 2017
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October 28th, 2017 at 1:20:34 AM permalink
Hi all,

I've been checking out the Baccarat tables at my local casino and some of the rules appear to be non-standard, but possibly in a good way which I'm hoping someone will be able to clarify for me.

They have the usual 5% Commission Baccarat tables but also have Non-Commission Baccarat tables.

Both styles have the following in common:
8 seats at the table, plus a casino dealer.
$50 minimum bet, maximum bets of something like $30k, Differential max of $20k (so in reality the max bet would be something like $20,100 based on the play I saw).
8 decks (confirmed by multiple dealers, and visual check of decks waiting to be loaded into shoe looks about right too).
Electronic Shoe (NOT a CSM, but rather one that is more of a traditional shoe shape that scans the card index and alerts the dealer if they've dealt incorrectly).
Cards that have been played are put into a container which is recessed into the table, the lid is clear but it seems too difficult to visually tell how many decks have been used at any given time.
I am yet to determine if any re-shuffling is done at any pre-set interval before the cut card appears from the shoe.
Winning Player bets are paid at even money.
Ties result in money back.
Winning Tie bets are paid at 8 to 1.

On the Non-Commission Baccarat tables, when Banker wins with a total of 6 then winning Banker bets are paid at odds of 1 to 2 (half).

The Non-Commission Baccarat tables also have the "Pairs Bets" option, where ANY PAIR for either Player or Banker (first 2 cards dealt to each) pays at odds of 11-1.
I do not know if this is also the case for the 5% Commission Baccarat tables, I'd have to check.

I'm very interested to know if the combination of zero commission (even though Banker wins for total of 6 only pay half) and Any Pair bets ends up providing a reasonable edge to an advantage player, and therefore if it is worth pursuing further.

Looking forward to the replies, cheers.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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October 28th, 2017 at 4:08:35 AM permalink
Quote: Gamblor33

I'm very interested to know if the combination of zero commission (even though Banker wins for total of 6 only pay half) and Any Pair bets ends up providing a reasonable edge to an advantage player

Welcome to the forum

I don't play Baccarat so the details on the game bore me too much to look at, but I think your basic question can be answered quickly.

For combining bets, there is often the lure of thinking some advantage can be gained, but it is a known fact that no combination of negative expectation bets can result in positive expectation. Nor a combination of -EV with zero edge. So,

*Is the Banker bet +EV or no edge? 'No Commission' does not mean "no house edge". It seems to be the Nepal Baccarat version on wizard's page, see link, which would indicate 1.46% house edge .

*Is the Any Pair bet +EV? If so [and I don't think so!] put as much on that as you can and as little on anything else as possible. Combining with a zero house edge bet will not make it +EV anyway ... unless it was +EV to start with. And we can see that the zero commission bet is not zero edge in fact, not that it would matter.

The bottom line is that the casino has made a terrible mistake if any bet is +EV. I think you may be confused by "zero commission"

https://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/appendix/6/
Last edited by: odiousgambit on Oct 28, 2017
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
Joined: Jul 3, 2015
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October 28th, 2017 at 4:47:36 AM permalink
Welcome- ZERO EDGE
Game is worse then normal bac for the gamblers
Just faster .
Tie is a terrible bet and the pair bet is even worse
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
Tanko
Tanko
Joined: Apr 22, 2013
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October 28th, 2017 at 7:27:43 AM permalink
Quote: Gamblor33


On the Non-Commission Baccarat tables, when Banker wins with a total of 6 then winning Banker bets are paid at odds of 1 to 2 (half).

The Non-Commission Baccarat tables also have the "Pairs Bets" option, where ANY PAIR for either Player or Banker (first 2 cards dealt to each) pays at odds of 11-1.
I do not know if this is also the case for the 5% Commission Baccarat tables, I'd have to check.

I'm very interested to know if the combination of zero commission (even though Banker wins for total of 6 only pay half) and Any Pair bets ends up providing a reasonable edge to an advantage player, and therefore if it is worth pursuing further.



That sounds like Nepal Baccarat described on this page: Wizard of Odds. House Edge is 1.46%.

The 10.4% HE on the pairs bet for 8 decks can be found here: Wizard Of Odds
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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October 28th, 2017 at 8:16:55 AM permalink
The Primary purpose of making it "Non Commission" is to speed up the play.

No more explanations of commissions to neophyte players.
No more use of markers and dealer need to prove up markers in between dealing stints.

IF the game goes faster then the house edge applies to you more often, just as at an otherwise empty BJ table or Craps table.

Even at a 1.414 percent house edge on the Pass Line at craps,, you will lose far more money at a virtually empty table than at a very full table simply on the basis of the house edge working faster.

This not to say it is inherently bad, some people enjoy the simplicity but the real reason is the speed of the game.

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