looking for better strategy for blackjack
September 4th, 2016 at 1:56:35 PM
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Hi all,
I am using the basic strategy table from found in wizard of odds for the blackjack simulator. Recently, I read a report about using card counting to increase the payback for blackjack. https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/card-counting/high-low/
I wonder by using the (high low) counting, does it mean there is no longer table like https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/calculator/ available to be used; instead, we record the count on each play and use the ranking to make decision on each step? I am a bit confusing between the basic strategy and card counting. In the basic strategy, we determine if we should HIT/STANDS/DOUBLE etc. by looking at the table. But it seems that we don't have such table for card counting strategy, isn't it?
I am using the basic strategy table from found in wizard of odds for the blackjack simulator. Recently, I read a report about using card counting to increase the payback for blackjack. https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/card-counting/high-low/
I wonder by using the (high low) counting, does it mean there is no longer table like https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/calculator/ available to be used; instead, we record the count on each play and use the ranking to make decision on each step? I am a bit confusing between the basic strategy and card counting. In the basic strategy, we determine if we should HIT/STANDS/DOUBLE etc. by looking at the table. But it seems that we don't have such table for card counting strategy, isn't it?
September 4th, 2016 at 2:29:31 PM
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You still want to use the appropriate Basic Strategy for the game you are playing, even if you're counting. The count will determine your bet size. When you've COMPLETELY mastered the BS, you can start learning count-based deviations such as the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4.
Variance giveth and variance taketh away.
September 4th, 2016 at 2:36:26 PM
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Quote: konglify...
I wonder by using the (high low) counting, does it mean there is no longer table like https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/calculator/ available to be used; instead, we record the count on each play and use the ranking to make decision on each step? I am a bit confusing between the basic strategy and card counting.
Hi Konglify,
For now, just note....... Keep using the appropriate Basic strategy card even as you are learning and counting.
The advantage with card counting comes about by varying (ramping) your bet when the count is favorable and betting minimum or not betting at all when the count is not favourable, There are a few times where a counter varies from basic strategy, but that's more advanced stuff.
Seek out Romes (Three) a-z of card counting articles
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
September 4th, 2016 at 7:32:15 PM
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Quote: RenoGamblerYou still want to use the appropriate Basic Strategy for the game you are playing, even if you're counting. The count will determine your bet size. When you've COMPLETELY mastered the BS, you can start learning count-based deviations such as the Illustrious 18 and Fab 4.
Oh, thanks. I got some idea now. So you mean I should still use the basic strategy to make decision while I should count the same time to see if I should bet more or less to increase the change of winning more and lower the risk to lose more. Is that right?
September 4th, 2016 at 8:16:46 PM
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Hi Kong,
I'm still a newbie at playing BJ (maybe only a year or two). I've started to learn to count, but it's a slow process for me, as I don't practice it like I should. For me, counting has a few aspects--as already pointed out by the others on this thread:
1. It tells you not only when to increase your bet size but also by how much you should increase your bet. As an example, when the TC = +2 you may wish to double the size of your normal bet.
2. Along the same lines, when the count is very poor in your favor, say, TC = -2 or worse, several of the books I've read will tell you to stop playing. Go take a bathroom break, or make a phone call, anything to stop playing a shoe with lots of little cards left in it (which is good for the dealer).
3. Finally, counting determines certain changes in the basic strategy. (For me, I've found this the most useful aspect of counting.) That's what the 'Illustrious 18' and 'Fab 4' are all about. (I don't use the Fab 4 where I live, because surrender isn't allowed.) For instance, if the TC > 0 and I've got a 16 v. dealer 10 I'll stand, but if the TC < 0 then I'll hit. Or, normally with a 12 v. dealer 4 you'd stand, but if the TC < 0 then you'd hit. (My game is 6D, H17, NS, DAS okay.)
Good luck--and listen to the advice from many of the APs on here (which doesn't include me--at least not yet)!
I'm still a newbie at playing BJ (maybe only a year or two). I've started to learn to count, but it's a slow process for me, as I don't practice it like I should. For me, counting has a few aspects--as already pointed out by the others on this thread:
1. It tells you not only when to increase your bet size but also by how much you should increase your bet. As an example, when the TC = +2 you may wish to double the size of your normal bet.
2. Along the same lines, when the count is very poor in your favor, say, TC = -2 or worse, several of the books I've read will tell you to stop playing. Go take a bathroom break, or make a phone call, anything to stop playing a shoe with lots of little cards left in it (which is good for the dealer).
3. Finally, counting determines certain changes in the basic strategy. (For me, I've found this the most useful aspect of counting.) That's what the 'Illustrious 18' and 'Fab 4' are all about. (I don't use the Fab 4 where I live, because surrender isn't allowed.) For instance, if the TC > 0 and I've got a 16 v. dealer 10 I'll stand, but if the TC < 0 then I'll hit. Or, normally with a 12 v. dealer 4 you'd stand, but if the TC < 0 then you'd hit. (My game is 6D, H17, NS, DAS okay.)
Good luck--and listen to the advice from many of the APs on here (which doesn't include me--at least not yet)!
ars longa vita brevis
September 6th, 2016 at 12:08:47 AM
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Quote: konglifyOh, thanks. I got some idea now. So you mean I should still use the basic strategy to make decision while I should count the same time to see if I should bet more or less to increase the change of winning more and lower the risk to lose more. Is that right?
That is essentially correct. A few basic strategy plays change with the count if you're able to use them. But mostly you continue basic strategy,and then vary your bet sizes and number of hands you play when you're counting. Better, more detailed explanation above, but I wanted to answer your question simply and directly.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
September 7th, 2016 at 10:47:53 AM
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For arguments sake
(i) you want to adopt a fixed strategy for all counts (perhaps to reduce the chances of being detected)
(ii) you're ranging the bets from $5 to $25 based on the count,
(iii) 16 vs 10 - you should hit on negative counts,
(iv) 16 vs 10 - you should stand on positive counts,.
(v) it costs 1c/$5 to make the wrong choice.
(1) Option - you always hit.
When your bet is $5 this is the correct thing to do - no loss.
When your bet is $25, the count is positive, so you should have stood - loss is 5c.
(2) Option 2 - you always stand.
When your bet is $5 , the count is negative, so you should have hit - loss is 1c.
When your bet is $25 this is the correct thing to do - no loss.
Thus it seems best strategy to always stand on 16 vs 10.
I don't know whether similar logic applies to some of the other close decisions or, if flat betting, because the differences aren't 1c for both sides there are "better" plays - I feel a few sims coming on (as my sims stick to a pre-determined fixed strategy)!
(i) you want to adopt a fixed strategy for all counts (perhaps to reduce the chances of being detected)
(ii) you're ranging the bets from $5 to $25 based on the count,
(iii) 16 vs 10 - you should hit on negative counts,
(iv) 16 vs 10 - you should stand on positive counts,.
(v) it costs 1c/$5 to make the wrong choice.
(1) Option - you always hit.
When your bet is $5 this is the correct thing to do - no loss.
When your bet is $25, the count is positive, so you should have stood - loss is 5c.
(2) Option 2 - you always stand.
When your bet is $5 , the count is negative, so you should have hit - loss is 1c.
When your bet is $25 this is the correct thing to do - no loss.
Thus it seems best strategy to always stand on 16 vs 10.
I don't know whether similar logic applies to some of the other close decisions or, if flat betting, because the differences aren't 1c for both sides there are "better" plays - I feel a few sims coming on (as my sims stick to a pre-determined fixed strategy)!
