California No Bust 21st Century Blackjack
May 27th, 2015 at 11:50:40 PM
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I am having the hardest time finding a return for this game. I've used the Wizards blackjack calculator to calculate the house edge for each blackjack game, however with the "No Bust" stipulation, I can imagine it changes the return significantly. For clarification, the "No Bust" rule states that if the player busts with three cards and the dealer also busts, but in a higher amount, the player pushes the wager. If the dealer bust amount equals or is less than the player then the wager loses. Other rules in the game: 6 decks, hits soft 17, double after split, double on any two cards, re-split four times, split aces get one card and can not re-split, surrender, and 6-5 BJ. Can anyone help me with the house edge on this game with the "No Bust" rule or know where I can find more information?
February 9th, 2018 at 3:39:41 PM
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bumpp, wizard is there an answer for this one, also interested at bay 101 casino
February 9th, 2018 at 5:18:08 PM
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That's not it, I thought so, too.
I called Bay 101 and the guy said the game they call, "No Bust," Blackjack doesn't use a joker and comes with the Buster side bet. He also said Naturals are handled as standard.
I called Bay 101 and the guy said the game they call, "No Bust," Blackjack doesn't use a joker and comes with the Buster side bet. He also said Naturals are handled as standard.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
February 9th, 2018 at 5:29:14 PM
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Ya so no surrender. But if you bust with 3 cards and have higher total then dealer you push. No joker's.
People are doubling down with 12s because of this. I noticed
People are doubling down with 12s because of this. I noticed
February 9th, 2018 at 5:40:53 PM
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Quote: Mission146That's not it, I thought so, too.
I called Bay 101 and the guy said the game they call, "No Bust," Blackjack doesn't use a joker and comes with the Buster side bet. He also said Naturals are handled as standard.
Here's the writeup:
http://www.bay101.com/Gaming/Table-Games/California-Games/How-to-Play-21st-Century-Blackjack
"Hands then compete, one at a time, as in a Nevada blackjack game, against the player-dealer hand. The object of the game is to get as close to a natural as possible (21 formed by an ace plus a 10, jack, queen, or king), without going over 21. A natural pays 6:5 — except for ties. You can’t bust by going over 21; your hand has a chance to push if it totals 22-25 and is closer to 21 than the player-dealer’s hand.
Any hand that does not go over a natural and is the same as the player-dealer’s is a push (tie).
Players must hit 11 or less, and can choose to hit or stand on 12-20. The player-dealer has no choices. The player-dealer must stand on hard 17 and higher, hit soft 17, and hit any other hand 16 or less. "
From another website:
"If a player goes over 21, their hand is not discarded or dead. Instead, it is marked as having gone over 21, and the rest of the play resumes at the table. When the dealer eventually completes their hand (as is typical in blackjack, the dealer draws cards last), if the dealer ends up busting but has a higher hand total than a busted player, it counts as a push for the player (they get their bet back). If the dealer busts with the same or lower total than the player, the player loses. As you can imagine, this alters the strategy for such things as hitting a 12"
Surprised that the Wizard doesn't have an up-to-date page.
-----
You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
February 9th, 2018 at 5:55:36 PM
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That's all as he said, I'm just saying the Wizard's page mentions a joker and all 21's are treated as equal.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
February 14th, 2018 at 5:09:06 AM
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anyone able to get the percent edge on this game? much appreciated
February 14th, 2018 at 6:31:22 AM
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Quote: Runlikegod777anyone able to get the percent edge on this game? much appreciated
Does each hand require a fee to be paid to the casino? If so, what is the fee schedule?
February 14th, 2018 at 1:52:04 PM
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Yes $1 per $100. So I can just add an extra 1 percent if betting $100. But can't figure out the edge of the game to begin with
February 14th, 2018 at 10:03:20 PM
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Quote: Runlikegod777Yes $1 per $100. So I can just add an extra 1 percent if betting $100. But can't figure out the edge of the game to begin with
My preliminary infinite-deck result not counting the 1% collection fee is a player EV of -0.74%. The 6-deck game would be better, of course.
I used dealer hits soft 17, winning blackjacks pay 6:5, late surrender on first two cards only, double on any two cards, double after split, split non-ace pairs to four hands, split aces get one card each, and the no-bust rule. For the no-bust rule, a 3-card busted player hand pushes a busted dealer hand of a higher total.
February 21st, 2018 at 4:41:26 AM
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there is no surrender allowed in this game, and is dealt from 8 decks. How much will this change the E.V. ?
February 21st, 2018 at 8:38:17 AM
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Quote: Runlikegod777there is no surrender allowed in this game, and is dealt from 8 decks. How much will this change the E.V. ?
The players' EV would change very little by taking away surrender from California no-bust blackjack. The infinite-deck EV player's EV would change from -0.74% to -.77%. (This is because the only basic strategy surrenders in no-bust blackjack are 16 vs ten and 16 and17 vs ace.)
My infinite-deck no-bust blackjack players' EV without surrender is -0.770%. Adjustments to the infinite-deck result are about +0.050% for eight decks and +0.066% for six decks. So, California no-bust 8-deck no-surrender blackjack with your rules would have a players' EV of about -0.72%.
February 21st, 2018 at 8:52:32 AM
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I don't make it a priority to keep up with all the ridiculous no-bust blackjack games in the LA and SF areas. The analysis is difficult and of interest to so few people.
"My life is spent in one long effort to escape from the commonplace of existence. These little problems help me to do so." -- Sherlock Holmes
February 21st, 2018 at 11:05:25 AM
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Basic strategy for a few hands might be different in this variant.
I am pretty sure that you should HIT 12v4.
You should also evaluate the HIT/STAND decision for 12v5,6 and 13v2.
I am pretty sure that you should HIT 12v4.
You should also evaluate the HIT/STAND decision for 12v5,6 and 13v2.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
February 21st, 2018 at 11:54:01 AM
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Quote: gordonm888Basic strategy for a few hands might be different in this variant.
I am pretty sure that you should HIT 12v4.
You should also evaluate the HIT/STAND decision for 12v5,6 and 13v2.
I agree. For 2-card 12s, my infinite-deck basic strategy is hit vs 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. And for 2-card 13s, I get hit vs 2, 3, 4, and 5.
See Stephen How's page about a similar variation. My hit/stand decision for a 2-card 13 vs 5 is very close, and Stephen How has stand on 13 vs 5, which is probably correct for six or eight decks.
February 21st, 2018 at 2:57:25 PM
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Okay. I see from Steve Howe's page that the No Bust rule was worth 1.22% in his analysis. That's a very useful number.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
February 21st, 2018 at 3:16:59 PM
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Thanks that is pretty useful.
Would anyone know how to calculate the e.v. of doubling down on 12 vs a 5 or 6 on these rules.
Would anyone know how to calculate the e.v. of doubling down on 12 vs a 5 or 6 on these rules.
February 21st, 2018 at 3:48:19 PM
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Quote: Runlikegod777Thanks that is pretty useful.
Would anyone know how to calculate the e.v. of doubling down on 12 vs a 5 or 6 on these rules.
Yes, and here are the EVs for double, stand, and hit hard 12 using the infinite-deck model:
| Hard 12 | Dealer = 5 | Dealer = 6 |
|---|---|---|
Double | -0.187 | -0.130 |
Stand | -0.165 | -0.121 |
Hit | -0.094 | -0.065 |
March 25th, 2019 at 4:44:20 AM
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hey is there a program, chart I can use to see this also for hitting hard 13 vs 4,5,6 or some other examples too.
March 25th, 2019 at 4:44:48 AM
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furthermore if you estimated people always played the 12 and 13 incorrectly by double down on it, instead of hitting it what would the house edge increase to?
December 23rd, 2025 at 6:36:39 PM
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I think I am going to a couple casinos around the Bay Area with friends around New Years and I will try to investigate regarding the current rules played at M8trix and Bay101.
Even if a game is only played at one casino, I think it is worth investigating mathematically.
Even if a game is only played at one casino, I think it is worth investigating mathematically.
December 23rd, 2025 at 8:36:28 PM
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Edit/Update: I remember some cardroom in the north bay has blackjack with jokers but they did not have information about it when I asked at the front... If I go back I will try to ask someone higher up, because the rules of a game should be transparent for the players.
At M8trix they have "21.5 Blackjack" which is the same as normal blackjack essentially, including strategy-wise. Bay101 has triple deck blackjack from what i remember. i do not remember any other details but I think you were allowed to go over 21 and have the chance to not lose there (maybe this was triple deck blackjack or a different type??). Anyways, I'll investigate.
At M8trix they have "21.5 Blackjack" which is the same as normal blackjack essentially, including strategy-wise. Bay101 has triple deck blackjack from what i remember. i do not remember any other details but I think you were allowed to go over 21 and have the chance to not lose there (maybe this was triple deck blackjack or a different type??). Anyways, I'll investigate.
December 27th, 2025 at 11:06:32 AM
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I talked to someone at Bay 101 casino and they said that if you bust with a three-card hand, you push if the dealer busts with a higher total than you. I think that's the only rule difference but I am not sure. What would the strategy differences be? I imagine hitting any hard 12 or 13. I don't think that you would split more and this rule would not impact starting with a soft hand.
For those wondering, blackjack pays 6:5, DAS, H17, and 3 decks. They have games with more than 3 decks too.
For those wondering, blackjack pays 6:5, DAS, H17, and 3 decks. They have games with more than 3 decks too.
December 27th, 2025 at 2:31:43 PM
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Harris,
I analyzed a more-generous "pushing on a lower bust" rule worth 1.6% back in 2016: here is a link to the post at bj21.com:
https://bj21.com/boards/green-chip-forums/sub_boards/archive/topics/feb-2016-pushing-on-a-lower-bust-is-worth-about-1-6#unread
The version I studied had no limit on the number of cards in the player's hand. I also used normal B.S. and speculated that a specialized B.S. would be worth investigating to take full advantage of the rule.
Dog Hand
I analyzed a more-generous "pushing on a lower bust" rule worth 1.6% back in 2016: here is a link to the post at bj21.com:
https://bj21.com/boards/green-chip-forums/sub_boards/archive/topics/feb-2016-pushing-on-a-lower-bust-is-worth-about-1-6#unread
The version I studied had no limit on the number of cards in the player's hand. I also used normal B.S. and speculated that a specialized B.S. would be worth investigating to take full advantage of the rule.
Dog Hand
December 27th, 2025 at 3:54:12 PM
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Quote: harris
At M8trix they have "21.5 Blackjack" which is the same as normal blackjack essentially, including strategy-wise. Bay101 has triple deck blackjack from what i remember.
link to original post
Is this the only triple deck blackjack game you've ever seen in America?
December 27th, 2025 at 4:51:14 PM
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Is there a way that I can see this analysis without paying $14 for a month's membership in that forum? Thanks
December 27th, 2025 at 4:51:30 PM
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Quote: acesideQuote: harris
At M8trix they have "21.5 Blackjack" which is the same as normal blackjack essentially, including strategy-wise. Bay101 has triple deck blackjack from what i remember.
link to original post
Is this the only triple deck blackjack game you've ever seen in America?
link to original post
maybe :)
December 27th, 2025 at 4:53:26 PM
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I made an online demo of the blackjack game that I found at Bay101, on my website it is called Californian Blackjack. Let me know what you think! :)
Right now I do not have the skillset for this sort of blackjack analysis but at my current rate of learning, I imagine this will be a project I can tackle in 2026. I need to finish analyzing Double Hook Poker first ;)
Right now I do not have the skillset for this sort of blackjack analysis but at my current rate of learning, I imagine this will be a project I can tackle in 2026. I need to finish analyzing Double Hook Poker first ;)
December 27th, 2025 at 5:13:57 PM
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I found a variety of Californian blackjack played nearby which seems just like normal 6:5 blackjack, except the rules say that if both the Player and the Dealer bust - the bet pushes if the Dealer has 8-8-8.
Strange.
I don't think that this would impact the basic strategy at all, but there is a slight possibility it could encourage people to split 7's against 8's.
I am gonna investigate more to find all the varieties. Every single game played in America should be known to us mathematicians.
Strange.
I don't think that this would impact the basic strategy at all, but there is a slight possibility it could encourage people to split 7's against 8's.
I am gonna investigate more to find all the varieties. Every single game played in America should be known to us mathematicians.
December 27th, 2025 at 5:27:30 PM
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Found another game that's essentially like normal blackjack - but blackjacks pay 6:5 except for spaded blackjacks which pay 2:1, in total blackjacks therefore pay 5:4
I also found a version similar to what I found at Bay 101, but pushes only occur when a player's 3-card 25 meets a dealer's 26. This probably does not change the strategy at all but very slightly lowers the house edge.
I also found a version similar to what I found at Bay 101, but pushes only occur when a player's 3-card 25 meets a dealer's 26. This probably does not change the strategy at all but very slightly lowers the house edge.
December 27th, 2025 at 7:20:55 PM
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All California blackjack rules are posted by law to the Bureau of Gambling Control website. https://oag.ca.gov/gambling/cardroomlist
December 28th, 2025 at 3:11:45 AM
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I believe Minnesota and New Mexico had triple deck at one time not sure if they still do.Quote: acesideQuote: harris
At M8trix they have "21.5 Blackjack" which is the same as normal blackjack essentially, including strategy-wise. Bay101 has triple deck blackjack from what i remember.
link to original post
Is this the only triple deck blackjack game you've ever seen in America?
link to original post
Happy days are here again
December 28th, 2025 at 4:32:55 AM
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That probably was decades ago.
December 28th, 2025 at 6:20:43 AM
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Quote: acesideThat probably was decades ago.
link to original post
Minnesota was 10 years ago Arizona was only 2 years ago.
Happy days are here again
December 28th, 2025 at 6:32:44 AM
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Quote: HunterhillQuote: acesideThat probably was decades ago.
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Minnesota was 10 years ago Arizona was only 2 years ago.
link to original post
Loose lips sink ships
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
December 28th, 2025 at 8:39:43 AM
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The California government website’s document for Bay 101 does not mention anything about how many times you can split, yet in real life I went into the casino and was shown a pamphlet that says you can only split once.
December 28th, 2025 at 9:25:37 AM
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I just read the rules but do not see any mention of how many decks of cards being used. It doesn’t say anything about a joker card or two being inserted into the regular 52-card deck either.
December 28th, 2025 at 11:24:17 AM
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I think it said “a regular 52-card deck” is used on another page, I don’t recall (I left the pamphlet in California, sorry)
There definitely is not a joker being used though
There definitely is not a joker being used though
December 28th, 2025 at 1:40:32 PM
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The rules contain a contradiction. If the player doubles down on, say 3,5 vs. 6 and draws a 2, he must stand (only one card on a DD). However, the rules clearly state that the Player must hit 11 and less.
Dog Hand
Dog Hand
December 28th, 2025 at 2:57:15 PM
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The game is nothing special otherwise I wouldn’t have mentioned it. There’s plenty of other games that are much better for various reasons.Quote: billryanQuote: HunterhillQuote: acesideThat probably was decades ago.
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Minnesota was 10 years ago Arizona was only 2 years ago.
link to original post
Loose lips sink ships
link to original post
Happy days are here again
December 28th, 2025 at 5:08:28 PM
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Quote: HunterhillThe game is nothing special otherwise I wouldn’t have mentioned it. There’s plenty of other games that are much better for various reasons.Quote: billryanQuote: HunterhillQuote: acesideThat probably was decades ago.
link to original post
Minnesota was 10 years ago Arizona was only 2 years ago.
link to original post
Loose lips sink ships
link to original post
link to original post
I like to post that.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
December 30th, 2025 at 10:04:32 AM
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Quote: harrisI made an online demo of the blackjack game that I found at Bay101, on my website it is called Californian Blackjack. Let me know what you think! :)
Right now I do not have the skillset for this sort of blackjack analysis but at my current rate of learning, I imagine this will be a project I can tackle in 2026. I need to finish analyzing Double Hook Poker first ;)
link to original post
harris,
A post way back in this thread (before you began posting here) contains this link:
https://discountgambling.net/no-bust-bj-oceans-11/
There, Stephan Howe presents the proper B.S. for this game:
I see in his key he forgot to indicate that "R" = "Surrender".
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
December 30th, 2025 at 4:23:36 PM
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Dear Dog Hand,
Thanks for this cool chart! Unfortunately, the rules on this chart seem different from modern rules. Modern rules say that you cannot double on any number of cards, nor can you surrender after doubling. I wonder why splitting 9's more that often than in regular blackjack makes sense but I sure it does mathematically.
Thanks for this cool chart! Unfortunately, the rules on this chart seem different from modern rules. Modern rules say that you cannot double on any number of cards, nor can you surrender after doubling. I wonder why splitting 9's more that often than in regular blackjack makes sense but I sure it does mathematically.
