Simple math problem
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25 members have voted
April 18th, 2015 at 4:27:26 AM
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I discovered this math problem on the computer the other day.It did not give the answer,but stated a lot of people get the answer wrong.I did the problem and of course got the answer WRONG lol.I did some research and discovered the error I made,but what amazed me was the different answers people came up with and how positive they were correct.I talked to the wizard and he stated their was a similar problem posted here about a year ago.He came up with the correct answer immediately and suggested I make it a new thread after telling him of the research I did and how many different answers their were and how positive everyone thought they were correct.Here is the problem 7 + 7 / 7 + 7 X 7 - 7 = ? Just a fun problem for everyone to have fun with.Positive variance to everyone and hoping you see a lot of 7's at the casino. P.S. A special thanks to Babs for showing me how to make a new thread as I had never done one before.
April 18th, 2015 at 4:39:21 AM
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use brackets
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
April 18th, 2015 at 4:59:55 AM
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The problem is shown as I seen it....no brackets,parenthesis etc.
April 18th, 2015 at 5:41:00 AM
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I couldn't find the history of order of operations in a quick search, but I did find one description about how it is now: http://www.eduplace.com/math/mathsteps/4/a/
So that is the order of operations and precidence that we are supposed to use now in situations like these.
I couldn't find out when these practices became the standard. It is what I was taught, and that was more than a few years ago.
So that is the order of operations and precidence that we are supposed to use now in situations like these.
I couldn't find out when these practices became the standard. It is what I was taught, and that was more than a few years ago.
50
April 18th, 2015 at 5:57:31 AM
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Quote: avianrandyThe problem is shown as I seen it....no brackets,parenthesis etc.
You don't need brackets, parenthesis etc. The order of operations is rigidly defined in the absence of such. At school, we called it BODMAS, though variations on terminology do exist.
Brackets, Of, Divide, Multiply Add, Subtract
Later we needed to worry about Exponentiation etc, but that got me through primary school.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
April 18th, 2015 at 6:31:45 AM
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Quote: OnceDearYou don't need brackets, parenthesis etc. The order of operations is rigidly defined in the absence of such. At school, we called it BODMAS, though variations on terminology do exist.
Brackets, Of, Divide, Multiply Add, Subtract
Later we needed to worry about Exponentiation etc, but that got me through primary school.
I learned it as BEDMAS
Brackets, exponents, divide and multiply (in the order they appear), add and subtract (in the order they appear)
April 18th, 2015 at 7:35:22 AM
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I can't believe that anyone who remembers High School math would get it wrong.
50
Edit: Note that I wish this wasn't a poll.
People who are on the fence would find a way to come up with the one answer getting all the votes.
Edit: Note that I wish this wasn't a poll.
People who are on the fence would find a way to come up with the one answer getting all the votes.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
April 18th, 2015 at 10:43:44 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI can't believe that anyone who remembers High School math would get it wrong.
I can actually believe that some who went to college and studied accountancy can get it wrong, A member of my family did when this was doing the rounds on facebook. I was stunned.
This is primary school stuff. ( Though Mrs Wood, my primary school teacher of 4x years ago didn't explain the 'o' of 'of' very well because she may have not studied 'order of')
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
April 20th, 2015 at 4:14:05 AM
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Quote: avianrandy7 + 7 / 7 + 7 X 7 - 7 =
A few ways to do it. Really depends on the spacing (since there are no brackets/parenthesis). The way it's written, I'd make it look like:
7 + (7/7) + (7*7) - 7 =
7 + 1 + 49 - 7 =
50
Granted, had there been different spacing, ie:
7+7 / 7+7 * 7-7
I'd make it look like:
(7+7) / (7+7) * (7-7) =
(14/14) * (0) =
0
The best way to write it, is of course, with parenthesis. Had there been no parenthesis, I believe the best way to write it would be:
7 + 7/7 + 7*7 - 7
7 + (7/7) + (7*7) - 7
Or perhaps:
7+7 / 7+7 * 7-7
[(7+7) / (7+7) ] * (7-7)
The two statements above would not be the same (different answer due to spacing / parenthesis).
Essentially, the spacing would/could be used in space of parenthesis
April 20th, 2015 at 5:06:26 AM
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Hey RS, I think we are in opposing camps here $:o) Not fighting though, because I'm open to persuasion.
Adding parenthesis when it's not explicitely required eliminates doubt and can be useful where we have expressions typed out such as 1/2x where subscript and superscripts are not available.
That might indeed have been a better way of writing it which would have helped the reader to implicity see the order of precedence. It's a cognitive aid.
I think that we agree that changing or inserting parenthesis would or could define the meaning of the formula depending on where they are put. We could indeed get a different answer due to parenthesis
However, as I understand it we should not get a different answer based on spacing alone ( grouping expressions with spaces or lack of spaces) because spacing is not part of the language of algebra. As I understand it order of precedence is pretty formally defined and it takes no account of spacing, with spacing having no part to play in deciding precedence.
I believe that writing an expression in the form 7+7 / 7+7 * 7-7 would invite confusion. It would be easily perceived as having grouping and I'm pretty sure that we would agree that it would be unwise to write it that way. If we are going to the trouble of grouping with spaces, then we could and should do it with the correct bracket character.
I do stand to be corrected though.
Yeah. That's the bit I have a problem with.
Supporting article
possibly of interest Long boring Article :)
Quote: RSA few ways to do it. Really depends on the spacing (since there are no brackets/parenthesis). ...
Adding parenthesis when it's not explicitely required eliminates doubt and can be useful where we have expressions typed out such as 1/2x where subscript and superscripts are not available.
Quote:Had there been no parenthesis, I believe the best way to write it would be:
7 + 7/7 + 7*7 - 7
That might indeed have been a better way of writing it which would have helped the reader to implicity see the order of precedence. It's a cognitive aid.
I think that we agree that changing or inserting parenthesis would or could define the meaning of the formula depending on where they are put. We could indeed get a different answer due to parenthesis
However, as I understand it we should not get a different answer based on spacing alone ( grouping expressions with spaces or lack of spaces) because spacing is not part of the language of algebra. As I understand it order of precedence is pretty formally defined and it takes no account of spacing, with spacing having no part to play in deciding precedence.
I believe that writing an expression in the form 7+7 / 7+7 * 7-7 would invite confusion. It would be easily perceived as having grouping and I'm pretty sure that we would agree that it would be unwise to write it that way. If we are going to the trouble of grouping with spaces, then we could and should do it with the correct bracket character.
I do stand to be corrected though.
Quote:
...The two statements above would not be the same (different answer due to spacing ...).
Essentially, the spacing would/could be used in space of parenthesis
Yeah. That's the bit I have a problem with.
Supporting article
possibly of interest Long boring Article :)
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
April 20th, 2015 at 6:57:50 AM
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Trick question. Just ask Allenrob Stubtuse.
April 20th, 2015 at 8:57:02 AM
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I'm not aware of rules where lateral spacing changes the order of operations, or acts as implied parenthesis, so
7+7 / 7+7 * 7-7
would probably really confuse people, as you would have to decide for yourself whether or not the spacing is or isn't supposed to represent implied parenthesis.
I would vote that it doesn't, and writing it this way hides or confuses the correct way to evaluate it.
7+7 / 7+7 * 7-7
would probably really confuse people, as you would have to decide for yourself whether or not the spacing is or isn't supposed to represent implied parenthesis.
I would vote that it doesn't, and writing it this way hides or confuses the correct way to evaluate it.
April 20th, 2015 at 9:03:20 AM
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Quote: Dalex64I'm not aware of rules where lateral spacing changes the order of operations, or acts as implied parenthesis, so
7+7 / 7+7 * 7-7
would probably really confuse people, as you would have to decide for yourself whether or not the spacing is or isn't supposed to represent implied parenthesis.
I would vote that it doesn't, and writing it this way hides or confuses the correct way to evaluate it.
I concur... spacing does not change the problem one bit, in my opinion. The operators are what drive the solution. In my school days we learned
Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally.... Parenthesis, Exponential, Multiplication, Division, Addition, Subtraction. My programming background also has embedded in my brain the order of right to left on equal level operators, but I suppose that is neither here nor there as the result is the same.
As others have described:
7 + 7 / 7 + 7 * 7 - 7 = 7 + (7/7) + (7*7) - 7 = 7 + 1 + 49 - 7 = 1 + 49 = 50.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
April 20th, 2015 at 2:01:32 PM
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I remember in 6th grade, my teacher tried to teach us that order of operations was: addition, subtraction, multiplication, division!!!??
I had already started learning BASIC programming at the time, and I knew that its operations were: parentheses, exponents, multiplication/division (left-to-right), addition/subtraction (left-to-right). I thought it wasn't likely that "regular math" order of operations and BASIC order of operations would be that different. I wasn't sure enough to call the teacher out, but I remember asking about it when I got home.
A big pet peeve of mine is teachers teaching incorrect information! Don't teach what you don't know!
I had already started learning BASIC programming at the time, and I knew that its operations were: parentheses, exponents, multiplication/division (left-to-right), addition/subtraction (left-to-right). I thought it wasn't likely that "regular math" order of operations and BASIC order of operations would be that different. I wasn't sure enough to call the teacher out, but I remember asking about it when I got home.
A big pet peeve of mine is teachers teaching incorrect information! Don't teach what you don't know!
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
April 20th, 2015 at 2:04:13 PM
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Quote: JoemanA big pet peeve of mine is teachers teaching incorrect information! Don't teach what you don't know!
So you must hate dealers that say "That's a fine soft 18 you've got there, you should stay to my 10!" or "Sure, I'd double A-2 vs a 2 all day!"
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
April 20th, 2015 at 2:32:30 PM
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Quote: RomesSo you must hate dealers that say "That's a fine soft 18 you've got there, you should stay to my 10!"
Actually, I find this much less of a sin. They're not being paid to educate me; just to take my money!
Quote:or "Sure, I'd double A-2 vs a 2 all day!"
No way! I wouldn't double any hand against the "dealer's ace!" ;)
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
May 5th, 2015 at 3:18:40 PM
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I learnt it as BIDMAS lol,
Brackets, Indices, division, multiplication, Addition, Subtraction.
Anyone learn it as BUDMAS?!
Brackets, Indices, division, multiplication, Addition, Subtraction.
Anyone learn it as BUDMAS?!
X~GAMMA(15, 6)
May 5th, 2015 at 4:11:38 PM
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Quote: KalelI learnt it as BIDMAS lol,
Brackets, Indices, division, multiplication, Addition, Subtraction.
Anyone learn it as BUDMAS?!
In MURICA we do PEMDAS.
May 5th, 2015 at 7:23:04 PM
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Browsers compress spacing. I believe this shows what you intended:Quote: Dalex64I'm not aware of rules where lateral spacing changes the order of operations, or acts as implied parenthesis, so
7+7 / 7+7 * 7-7
would probably really confuse people, as you would have to decide for yourself whether or not the spacing is or isn't supposed to represent implied parenthesis.
I would vote that it doesn't, and writing it this way hides or confuses the correct way to evaluate it.
7+7 / 7+7 * 7-7
You dont bring a bone saw to a negotiation. - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
