chaunceyb3
chaunceyb3
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November 28th, 2014 at 5:18:34 PM permalink
A certain East Coast casino allows match play coupons to be played on Spanish 21. 6 decks, S17 game.

Match play portion also pays 3:2 on naturals, full odds on 6-7-8 and 7-7-7 bonuses, $20 cheques + match play is a $40 bet and qualifies for $5,000 super bonus.

Late Surrender loses match play coupon only, player retains $20 chips.

Double down/split for chips + match play amount ($40).

Rescue for full doubled amount ($40).

How much is this coupon worth and what are some basic strategy deviations?

Basically, I'm looking for a expected return table similar to this https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/5/.

Any advice is appreciated.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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November 28th, 2014 at 6:26:00 PM permalink
Quote: chaunceyb3

A certain East Coast casino allows match play coupons to be played on Spanish 21. 6 decks, S17 game.

Match play portion also pays 3:2 on naturals, full odds on 6-7-8 and 7-7-7 bonuses, $20 cheques + match play is a $40 bet and qualifies for $5,000 super bonus.

Late Surrender loses match play coupon only, player retains $20 chips.

Double down/split for chips + match play amount ($40).

Rescue for full doubled amount ($40).

How much is this coupon worth and what are some basic strategy deviations?

Basically, I'm looking for a expected return table similar to this https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/5/.

Any advice is appreciated.

Are you planning on buying a bunch or something?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
chaunceyb3
chaunceyb3
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November 28th, 2014 at 6:46:46 PM permalink
Nope, there's no market for them (the casino isn't Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun). I just get a bunch of them every weekend and feel like I am throwing money away playing them on the Pass Line. Maybe Katarina Walker's book has some expected value tables?
Boney526
Boney526
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November 28th, 2014 at 11:02:57 PM permalink
I doubt you're going to find a table for this, though I'd imagine the EV is better on Spanish 21 than craps. Either way, it's a marginal amount of EV for the effort, so I'd stick with Craps if it's significantly easier or just play basic strategy, maybe surrendering slightly wider if the Index play is close (no idea if it is.)
sc15
sc15
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November 29th, 2014 at 1:18:17 AM permalink
If surrender gives you your cheques back and you only lose the coupon, you surrender a LOT.

you basically surrender any stiff hand, and a lot of other hands as well. (so if you have 12 vs 6, you surrender).

Basically any hand with an EV < -0.333 or so you surrender. (whereas normally you only surrender hands with an EV < - 0.5)
24Bingo
24Bingo
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December 25th, 2014 at 3:40:39 PM permalink
EDIT: Nevermind.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
kewlj
kewlj
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December 25th, 2014 at 5:23:26 PM permalink
Yeah, the way they are handling surrender is very nice (player friendly). Wish casino's here (vegas) did that.

Also the full pay on blackjack is sweet. I hate that casinos here did away with that and with only pay even money. That's cheap! By definition, they are suppose to 'match' the payout of the original wager.
scubatim84
scubatim84
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December 25th, 2014 at 5:52:15 PM permalink
I actually have a similar question regarding $10 match play coupons at the Orleans in Vegas. I get $100 worth of $10 match play coupons as a side benefit of entering a bowling tournament there in February...what would be the best way to play through the match play and walk away with as much of it as possible? I'm not too enthusiastic about the idea of playing BJ with it since I don't know how that would work with splits, doubling down, etc....would the pass line at a craps table be a decent way to cash out as much of the match play as possible?

I also know how to play pai gow although I'm not sure if that has a better EV than craps...probably not unless it's commission-free which it won't be at the Orleans.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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December 25th, 2014 at 6:58:30 PM permalink
Quote: scubatim84

I actually have a similar question regarding $10 match play coupons at the Orleans in Vegas. I get $100 worth of $10 match play coupons as a side benefit of entering a bowling tournament there in February...what would be the best way to play through the match play and walk away with as much of it as possible? I'm not too enthusiastic about the idea of playing BJ with it since I don't know how that would work with splits, doubling down, etc....would the pass line at a craps table be a decent way to cash out as much of the match play as possible?

I also know how to play pai gow although I'm not sure if that has a better EV than craps...probably not unless it's commission-free which it won't be at the Orleans.

Play whatever game you enjoy the most. The difference in EV is insignificant to the overall advantage. I like BJ because you can get it dine quickly. Craps and Roulette take longer. If you want entertainment value craps is probably better.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
bigfoot66
bigfoot66
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December 25th, 2014 at 6:58:37 PM permalink
Quote: scubatim84

I actually have a similar question regarding $10 match play coupons at the Orleans in Vegas. I get $100 worth of $10 match play coupons as a side benefit of entering a bowling tournament there in February...what would be the best way to play through the match play and walk away with as much of it as possible? I'm not too enthusiastic about the idea of playing BJ with it since I don't know how that would work with splits, doubling down, etc....would the pass line at a craps table be a decent way to cash out as much of the match play as possible?

I also know how to play pai gow although I'm not sure if that has a better EV than craps...probably not unless it's commission-free which it won't be at the Orleans.



Wager on "player" at baccarat or don't pass at craps.
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djatc
djatc
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December 25th, 2014 at 8:05:30 PM permalink
Whenever I get a matchplay or freebet, I usually head to player on bac, or red/black on roulette. It's not really a big deal in terms of EV if the amount is pretty small and the difference is minuscule. Craps takes way too long, and BJ I don't like because although you get a very low house edge every hand is different, where you could end up with 3:2 BJ, or a dealer BJ. I prefer a heads/tails option as much as possible, even with a house edge. Although results will vary if you are a card counter getting matchplays you might as well play them on BJ.

Of course between bac and roulette I choose bac because it's faster, and am more likely to win over the long term. Also player bets because I hate paying the 5% tax/commission.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
teddys
teddys
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December 31st, 2014 at 8:25:27 AM permalink
Quote: djatc

Of course between bac and roulette I choose bac because it's faster, and am more likely to win over the long term. Also player bets because I hate paying the 5% tax/commission.

This. Player on bacc or even money bet on roulette. I find myself playing it on roulette a lot more because I like the game and I never play roulette otherwise. Plus I'm on a winning streak on roulette match plays :)
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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December 31st, 2014 at 8:37:07 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

This. Player on bacc or even money bet on roulette. I find myself playing it on roulette a lot more because I like the game and I never play roulette otherwise. Plus I'm on a winning streak on roulette match plays :)

They used to have fun books and other booklets with match plays specifically for each game(even the big 6). So it was ok to play multiple coupons.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
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