Math and the NSA
Makes sense I suppose.
My question: as this board is chock full of mathematicians, can any of you share any tidbits / stories about the NSA?
Yeah, I know, sworn to secrecy, yada yada yada.
Just got shot from men in black. Hold on I have to watch a light display or so they say
I can also say that my old hair stylist in Maryland applied for a low-level clerical job there. She she had to undergo very intensive interview where they asked her such things as if she liked having sex with animals. After a while she go so freaked out that she left the interview early in tears. Now that treetopbuddy is gone I feel a little more at ease to confide things like that.
Quote: WizardShe she had to undergo very intensive interview where they asked her such things as if she liked having sex with animals.
Did the interview look like this?
Quote: WizardI talked to their recruiters and sent them a resume but nothing every came of it. They say you need at least a masters degree in math to get hired there as a cryptologist, which is what I wanted to do,but never got past my bachelors degree.
I can also say that my old hair stylist in Maryland applied for a low-level clerical job there. She she had to undergo very intensive interview where they asked her such things as if she liked having sex with animals. After a while she go so freaked out that she left the interview early in tears. Now that treetopbuddy is gone I feel a little more at ease to confide things like that.
Yeah the background check can be massively intrusive, one of my friends did a summer internship there in optimization type questions. Also while the question seems super odd is something to ask since you want to make sure there is no way to blackmail the person.
Quote: Wizard
I can also say that my old hair stylist in Maryland applied for a low-level clerical job there. She she had to undergo very intensive interview where they asked her such things as if she liked having sex with animals. After a while she go so freaked out that she left the interview early in tears. Now that treetopbuddy is gone I feel a little more at ease to confide things like that.
Sounds horrible. But seems odd they would ask a question like that. Are they going to analyze the intonation/timing delay in how you say "No" for that question? I would like to see the remainder of an interview if/when someone says "Yes". Might be cringeworthy if it's not immediately terminated though.
Quote: WizardI can also say that my old hair stylist in Maryland applied for a low-level clerical job there. She she had to undergo very intensive interview where they asked her such things as if she liked having sex with animals.
I think the answer for that is:
"Well sir, if I have to do it for my country, I will do by best."
(I don't know if that is the answer they would be looking for but it would amuse me anyway, job or no job.)
I would think some positions they would want to hear yes. If they want something done most people would find indecent, sounds like the animal lover wouldn't mind doing much.Quote: rxwineI think the answer for that is:
"Well sir, if I have to do it for my country, I will do by best."
(I don't know if that is the answer they would be looking for but it would amuse me anyway, job or no job.)
Sounds like a good first date question.Quote: Wizardinterview where they asked her such things as if she liked having sex with animals.
Quote: TwirdmanYeah the background check can be massively intrusive, one of my friends did a summer internship there in optimization type questions. Also while the question seems super odd is something to ask since you want to make sure there is no way to blackmail the person.
I had to fill out a 10 year history of all the addresses I've lived in, work, references of work, people I've lived with, friends, family, and all foreign contacts. I had an interview with a person from the government, and this person followed up on all my contacts by meeting them or getting someone at their location if they were out of the area.
There was an area to fill out if you had drug use, how many times, and when. Speeding tickets, financial troubles, basically like you said, any information that can be used to blackmail the applicant.
A problem is that much of our crypto traffic is at 75 baud. Slow speed traffic gives greater opportunity for a Man In The Middle Attack since detection of inordinate delay is the critical process in assuming there is a man in the middle with the keys to both ends.
Fiber scatter is a problem when fibers bend even though the fiber should be shielded and buried.
Oh, and animals.... its not a bar to employment if you are proud of it.
Remember the MI6 agent who died in a soft sided suitcase inside his London apartment? His unique interests were not a bar to employment at all.
And his fifteen grand worth of female clothing was NOT a perversion because such would have displayed a distribution of acquisition times. All purchased at once means related to a purpose, not related to a perversion.
I know of someone who got booted from the NSA when caught with a pill in a nightclub.. which she did not take. It cost her the only job in her life she ever wanted and she has been on drugs to escape the pain of losing it her entire life. She recently had a meeting with a former coworker: rich, hubby and kids, high position at NSA now in charge of a certain country. She loved catching up on old times but when her guest left, she bawled for three days straight. One slip ... and it can be a very painful fall with life long consequences. And it goes both ways, one slip in appropriate zealousness... and its the same eternal pain beyond all hope of relief or redemption.
Quote: WizardI can also say that my old hair stylist in Maryland applied for a low-level clerical job there. She she had to undergo very intensive interview where they asked her such things as if she liked having sex with animals. After a while she go so freaked out that she left the interview early in tears.
Is it possible they were trying to measure how easily someone would become flustered or unravelled ? If you answered and remained calm, would that have been what they were looking for ?
Or as others have pointed out, were they simply looking for someone WITH that interest ?
You know, when you travel to the United States, you have to answer questions like "Do you have a bomb in your luggage?" It seems to me obvious that, whether you have or not, you always answer "No", so what's the use?Quote: WizardI can also say that my old hair stylist in Maryland applied for a low-level clerical job there. She she had to undergo very intensive interview where they asked her such things as if she liked having sex with animals. After a while she go so freaked out that she left the interview early in tears. Now that treetopbuddy is gone I feel a little more at ease to confide things like that.
But don't try to be smart with civil servants. A friend of mine wrote "yes" and he was detained for thorough checking and missed his correspondance flight.
Nothing here about checking your time reaction or attitude in the face of an awkward question. Just silly procedures.
Well, their background check was not that thorough. They called my wife to ask about the fact that she had a legal record: she once had refused to participate in a court jury, for medical reasons. They asked her about me, but nothing very profound, more like any employer would check you.
I am active in anti-capitalist groups but that didn't seem to bother them.
Finally I was proposed a job... three years later. By the time I had found a job and was not ready to switch. Teaching is as well-payed and less time-consuming (but admittedly less interesting).
I said "doggie style"
They haven't offered me the job yet :)
Quote: kubikulannYou know, when you travel to the United States, you have to answer questions like "Do you have a bomb in your luggage?" It seems to me obvious that, whether you have or not, you always answer "No", so what's the use?
But don't try to be smart with civil servants. A friend of mine wrote "yes" and he was detained for thorough checking and missed his correspondance flight.
This kind of question is nowhere near a silly question. However, if you answer "yes" you basically force them to act. In the end if they don't act it's their lower body part which is on the line. If you answer "no" and they do find something, it weakens your position as you lied to them.
For them it's a cheap freeroll, only costing half an inch of ink. At last if you carry something against your will, it gives you a good exit strategy.
Quote: MangoJIt might simply be a test how you react under stressful conditions. You don't want your future agent to freak out over some personal but overall insignificant incident.
The way she told the story, I think that was it. She said they kept her there all day and were trying to deliberately upset her. Maybe there is something in the personality of somebody who cannot break under pressure that is good at keeping secrets.
When I lived in Baltimore I sometimes met people who worked there and they were not even allowed to say they did. If you asked them where they worked they always said "the defense department." When I learned that meant the NSA, I would respond, "NSA, right?" Then they would just kind of smirk as if to say, "You said it, I didn't."
Quote: WizardI talked to their recruiters and sent them a resume but nothing every came of it. They say you need at least a masters degree in math to get hired there as a cryptologist, which is what I wanted to do,but never got past my bachelors degree.
I can also say that my old hair stylist in Maryland applied for a low-level clerical job there. She she had to undergo very intensive interview where they asked her such things as if she liked having sex with animals. After a while she go so freaked out that she left the interview early in tears. Now that treetopbuddy is gone I feel a little more at ease to confide things like that.
I would think that would be an illegal question to ask as it could be construed as sexual harassment. I don't think the government can just ask whatever questions they want because they are the government.
Look folks, that was a preliminary screening interview. Later they move on to things like would you be willing to kill an infant or toddler? And while hesitation to do such a thing is most definitely desirable, they will make certain that you understand the question is to be answered in the affirmative.Quote: FinsRuleAlthough sex with animals is an illegal activity, so it could be a bit of a grey area. I could see it either way.
However for a mathematician job that is an area they will not delve into. Just remember if its Agent or Case Handler stuff, they get into some very strange things. And these days.. well, back to that MI6 guy who pretty much kept to himself and his bicycle. Look at how intensely they kept saying "technician" and "code breaker" and so strictly avoided any mention of his having been operational. That's like saying "non combat" when its been a "cooks, clerks and company commanders" situation for a real long time.
Quote: WizardI can also say that my old hair stylist in Maryland applied for a low-level clerical job there. She she had to undergo very intensive interview where they asked her such things as if she liked having sex with animals. After a while she go so freaked out that she left the interview early in tears. Now that treetopbuddy is gone I feel a little more at ease to confide things like that.
What, that you have a hair stylist? :)
Quote: kubikulannYou know, when you travel to the United States, you have to answer questions like "Do you have a bomb in your luggage?" It seems to me obvious that, whether you have or not, you always answer "No", so what's the use?
But don't try to be smart with civil servants. A friend of mine wrote "yes" and he was detained for thorough checking and missed his correspondance flight.
True story from the 80s. I was in University travelling to West Germany by plane(before the reunification).
There were 4 of us. One was Sikh (those who do not know, they never cut their hair and wear a turban).
I had a 6 month beard (the only time in my life that I grew one) and looked like a mujahideen.
The other guy was really into bodybuilding.
So the security guy asks him ' Do you carry, a weapon?"
His answer 'Yes, then pause, My two deadly hands'.
My friend thought that was funny, but the security guy was not amuzed.
The only good thing, the 4th guy was German so he tried and convinced the security guy that this was just a bad joke.
I think if the same thing happened today, we would definete not be on that plane.
These days the most intimidating Security Control at an airport is in Tel-Aviv when you enter (and even when you leave).
If you are not used to it, you get really upset.
A security person will come and ask you many questions: Why are you travelling here, have you been here before, which Arab countries have you been and when and why and lots of other. Then 10 minutes later another security guy will come and ask you exactly the same questions in different order in a more intimidating way trying to catch you telling a different answer. Its quite intimidating.
But I can appreciate why they do it.
Quote: AceTwoMy friend thought that was funny, but the security guy was not amuzed.
Airport security have their sense of humor surgically removed as a job requirement. So, it seems, do customs inspectors.
Quote:These days the most intimidating Security Control at an airport is in Tel-Aviv when you enter (and even when you leave).
If you are not used to it, you get really upset.
I remember it. It can begin earlier, too. I bought a ticket on El Al when I was in London. The street-front offices were locked, and they asked me for my name, country of residence and antionality before even buzzing me in. Once inside, it was a regular airline ticket office. Complete with posters for various tourist destinations. All this was in the mid-80s.
Looking back on it, buying a one-way ticket probably wasn't the best idea I ever had...
