Craps: Lay vs. The Don't pass

Wizard: I am a Dont Pass player...I just want to verify the math on the Lay vs. the Don't:

* I play $100 on the don't pass on the come out roll, once the point is established I take 6 times odds ($700 total bet)
*let's say the point is the 4 (which pays 1 to 2) my pay off on the 7 is one to one on the $100 and $300 on the odds for a total of $400

* Now I lay $700 on the 4 and the shooter rolls a 7...I am paid $350, minus the vig (I think either $7 or $10)

Here are my quesions:

1. What is the advantage by laying the number vs. betting the dont pass- meaning I'm not losing my original $100 bet on the come out roll on a 7 or 11?
2. For my $700 average total bet, what is my BR requirement betting the lay vs. the dont pass? I assume less since I'm not losing on the come out roll on 7 or 11?
3. What is my ROR chances on a $10K BR lay vs. dont pass?
4. Please also tell me the implimincations on paying the vig vs. not losing to a 7 or 11 on the come out roll.

I started using this method last week, the comps being the main reason-I had one pit boss tell me they rate me on the total bet ($700) and one pit boss tell me they rate me on the win ($350) - either way my rating is higher then betting the dont, which they dont rate the odds.

Thanks Wizard!

Quote: Ilovesevens

* Now I lay $700 on the 4 and the shooter rolls a 7...I am paid $350, minus the vig (I think either $7 or $10)

The vig would be $17 (possibly $18).

Quote: Ilovesevens

1. What is the advantage by laying the number vs. betting the dont pass- meaning I'm not losing my original $100 bet on the come out roll on a 7 or 11?

There is no "advantage" as far as House Advantage is concerned. Technically speaking, the Don't is better than a straight lay bet.

Quote: Ilovesevens

2. For my $700 average total bet, what is my BR requirement betting the lay vs. the dont pass? I assume less since I'm not losing on the come out roll on 7 or 11?

Actually, it's more.

Quote: Ilovesevens

either way my rating is higher then betting the dont, which they dont rate the odds.

That should tell you right there that laying a number is worse than playing the Don't.

So there is no advantage (for me) not losing my $100 on the come out roll vs. laying the point? And why would the BR be more? I need to see some math on this, that is why I posted here.

And the casinos obvisouly dont rate odds...they treat the lay like a place bet is what a pit boss told me, but they said different things on the rating aspect of this.

Quote: Ilovesevens

So there is no advantage (for me) not losing my $100 on the come out roll vs. laying the point?

You are taking an odd approach to the question in the first place. Evidently unfamiliar with the extensive contemplation of the game of Craps that has taken place before you ever approached a table, you are striking out on your own, sort of re-inventing the wheel. Yet you write like an intelligent person. Lost in the novelty of approaching it [I'm guessing] you have zeroed in on a canard that may have been dangled at you by the dealers: that losing on the come-out will make playing the dark side untenable. This is simply not true.

What has been done traditionally is to compare the exact house edge of every bet.

Quote: Ilovesevens

I need to see some math on this, that is why I posted here.

Just go here.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/

Quote: Ilovesevens

And the casinos obvisouly dont rate odds...

Forget trying to figure out which bet gets rated the best, this should not be a consideration unless you find out something like a particular casino making the mistake of rating the odds like a regular line bet.

Quote: Ilovesevens

And the casinos obvisouly dont rate odds...they treat the lay like a place bet is what a pit boss told me, but they said different things on the rating aspect of this.

Exactly. Some casinos do rate laid odds. Others don't. I suspect that even within the same casino, different floor supervisors rate bettors, especially don'ts, differently among themselves. If you're going to be putting down black bets like that, it might behoove you to inquire. Most supervisory personnel is decently responsive to basic questions like that. If they're not, that is not a good sign.

Quote: Ilovesevens

Wizard: I am a Dont Pass player...I just want to verify the math on the Lay vs. the Don't:

* I play $100 on the don't pass on the come out roll, once the point is established I take 6 times odds ($700 total bet)
*let's say the point is the 4 (which pays 1 to 2) my pay off on the 7 is one to one on the $100 and $300 on the odds for a total of $400

* Now I lay $700 on the 4 and the shooter rolls a 7...I am paid $350, minus the vig (I think either $7 or $10)

Here are my quesions:

1. What is the advantage by laying the number vs. betting the dont pass- meaning I'm not losing my original $100 bet on the come out roll on a 7 or 11?
2. For my $700 average total bet, what is my BR requirement betting the lay vs. the dont pass? I assume less since I'm not losing on the come out roll on 7 or 11?
3. What is my ROR chances on a $10K BR lay vs. dont pass?
4. Please also tell me the implimincations on paying the vig vs. not losing to a 7 or 11 on the come out roll.

I started using this method last week, the comps being the main reason-I had one pit boss tell me they rate me on the total bet ($700) and one pit boss tell me they rate me on the win ($350) - either way my rating is higher then betting the dont, which they dont rate the odds.

Thanks Wizard!

the math says don't pass with odds is better than Laying the bet.
in the long term, you will have MORE $ left with don't pass.

my bankroll is 10x what I put on the table.
so $700 means $7000 bankroll.
it doesn't matter if it's $100dont pass/600 odds or a $700 Lay on a number.

Quote: Ilovesevens

* Now I lay $700 on the 4 and the shooter rolls a 7...I am paid $350, minus the vig (I think either $7 or $10)

Also, I forgot to add that most casinos will require the vig BEFORE laying the number. So if you lay $700 behind the 4, and the 4 hits, then you will lose $717 (or $718). That may not sound like a lot, but it quickly adds up.