Jeopardy oddity
January 18th, 2013 at 1:32:15 PM
permalink
Quote: WizardTeddy, who is a two-time champion, has said pretty much the same thing to me. There are only x contestants per season. By giving somebody a free extra game you deny somebody else the chance to be on the show at all.
The total wealth given to the pre-contestant pool can simply be measured by the total prizes the show pays out. Allowing the tie in the final doubles the prize amount for that specific show, and thus maximizes expected prize for the pre-contestant pool. The longer waiting list for contestant Z (at the end of the line who will drop out) does not offset the gain by the double-payment.
Same with the cab ride. Although this specific cab driver gets screwed, the whole cab driver ensemble makes more money with your two-block ride (assuming fixed operational costs - and a non-full workload).
January 18th, 2013 at 2:16:00 PM
permalink
Quote: MangoJThe total wealth given to the pre-contestant pool can simply be measured by the total prizes the show pays out. Allowing the tie in the final doubles the prize amount for that specific show, and thus maximizes expected prize for the pre-contestant pool. The longer waiting list for contestant Z (at the end of the line who will drop out) does not offset the gain by the double-payment.
But I would argue a lot of the "value" of going on Jeopardy is the experience, not just the money handed out. And by having a tie, you have one fewer person who gets to have that experience.
Of course it increases the average payout per contestant to have a tie. But it does somewhat offset the gain because it reduces everyone's probability of appearing on the show. Yes, for those who survive the "one person cut," EV goes up if everyone plays in this manner -- but there's no way of knowing who will survive the cut, and the increased one person cuts will offset the gains from the tie strategy EV of the pre-contestant pool.
Obviously, all of this is moot anyway, because the 5-day limit is gone. Thus I would argue that playing for a tie as leader is just part of the game, AKA a good strategy, and not a moral consideration because the champ can always come back.
January 18th, 2013 at 4:30:01 PM
permalink
Quote: MangoJSame with the cab ride. Although this specific cab driver gets screwed, the whole cab driver ensemble makes more money with your two-block ride (assuming fixed operational costs - and a non-full workload).
I can understand a cabbie not wanting a two-block ride. However, the problem there lies with regulations on cabs. It would be far better for cab drivers if they could pick up fares anywhere. And/or also if they could refuse fares that aren't worth their while.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
January 18th, 2013 at 4:33:16 PM
permalink
Quote: NareedIt would be far better for cab drivers if they could pick up fares anywhere. And/or also if they could refuse fares that aren't worth their while.
I am so glad you are not in charge of the taxi commission of anywhere.
February 11th, 2013 at 4:26:27 PM
permalink
I had to bump to give props to the Teens on this year's tournament. Normally I don't even watch because the questions are too easy. But starting in the semi-finals, almost all of the teens started choosing their clues from the 3rd, 4th, and 5th row exclusively until they were all exhausted, and then went to the easier clues. They know what we regulars know, that the Daily Double is never in the first spot and rarely in the second. It'sinteresting that every contestant who's on the show doesn't know that (because you don't see it that often), but the brightest youngsters do.
February 11th, 2013 at 4:40:36 PM
permalink
Quote: cclub79I had to bump to give props to the Teens on this year's tournament. Normally I don't even watch because the questions are too easy. But starting in the semi-finals, almost all of the teens started choosing their clues from the 3rd, 4th, and 5th row exclusively until they were all exhausted, and then went to the easier clues. They know what we regulars know, that the Daily Double is never in the first spot and rarely in the second. It'sinteresting that every contestant who's on the show doesn't know that (because you don't see it that often), but the brightest youngsters do.
I think that most contestants are aware, but hope to build up a nice sum before going for the double. Missing at the higher levels can really put you in a hole.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
February 11th, 2013 at 5:35:36 PM
permalink
Quote: AyecarumbaI think that most contestants are aware, but hope to build up a nice sum before going for the double. Missing at the higher levels can really put you in a hole.
But earlier in this thread we decided that risking your opponent getting the DD by you wasting any pick on a non-likely DD clue was more of a -EV than you getting the DD with less $$$.
February 12th, 2013 at 7:01:47 AM
permalink
Speaking of Jeopardy, a musical friend of mine, Gilles Apap," has a category devoted to him this Friday. Gilles is crazy at best. I am lucky that I get to play with him in "jam sessions" a few times a year. We've also performed together a couple of times, which kind of blows my mind.
The category will be airing in the episode this Friday, February 15. Look for "Gilles Apap." He will be reading his own quesitons.
Here is Gilles at his best:
Gilles playing Mozart
The category will be airing in the episode this Friday, February 15. Look for "Gilles Apap." He will be reading his own quesitons.
Here is Gilles at his best:
Gilles playing Mozart
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
February 12th, 2013 at 7:17:51 AM
permalink
Quote: sodawaterWrong, actually. Contestants stay in the pool for 18 months. If they don't get picked, they have to re-take the test and start the process over again, with no guarantee of making it back in the pool.
Way more people make it into the pool than make it on the show. I have been in the pool for two 18-month periods and have not yet been called to go on the show.
I can vouch for this too. About 10 years ago my mother won a contestant search here, but never made it to the show, as there were many more contestants in the pool than spots on the show.
"Bite my Glorious Golden Ass!" - Bender Bending Rodriguez
March 12th, 2015 at 9:11:06 PM
permalink
For the first time since 2011, only 1 contestant made it to Final Jeopardy. Oops. Needless to say, Kristin's Final Jeopardy answer was incorrect. Bummer. Better luck next time, Kristin.
Kinda cool, though, that Stephanie walked off with a negative score: -$6,800. Nice. As Stephanie would say, "No guts, no glory."
Kinda cool, though, that Stephanie walked off with a negative score: -$6,800. Nice. As Stephanie would say, "No guts, no glory."
March 12th, 2015 at 10:24:46 PM
permalink
Wow, is Stephanie's score the lowest ever??
And I even got Final Jeopardy right... :-\
And I even got Final Jeopardy right... :-\
March 13th, 2015 at 4:10:56 AM
permalink
Quote: tringlomaneAnd I even got Final Jeopardy right... :-\
I would have loved that Final Jeopardy, as I worked for the agency at the time.
I watched the show earlier this week, I don't remember which day exactly, and all three players were women. You don't see that very often.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 13th, 2015 at 4:32:47 AM
permalink
Quote: Wizardand all three players were women. You don't see that very often.
They allow women to compete on game shows now a days!? What has this world come to.......
Lol, JK.
I love watching Jeopardy, especially with a group of people. Unfortunately, I'm usually pretty bad at answering the questions. I've very bad when it comes to history / geography stuffs / political stuffs / current famous-people stuffs / windmills / etc.
I don't like windmills, they're creepy.
March 13th, 2015 at 6:22:59 AM
permalink
Quote: tringlomaneWow, is Stephanie's score the lowest ever??
Technically, the lowest "winning" score, if you can call it that, was zero; all three contestants ended up with zero in a first season episode. None of them were invited back the next day, so I don't think that counts. (There was also a game in a Seniors Tournament where all three had a negative amount after Double Jeopardy.)
However, there has been at least one episode before this season where the winner ended up with $1.
OOPS - I misunderstood the question; I thought Stephanie had the high score instead of the low one.
March 13th, 2015 at 6:29:20 AM
permalink
Quote: RSUnfortunately, I'm usually pretty bad at answering the questions
Me and my wife often watch casually and don't do so well. But, consider: I haven't done this yet, but still plan to:
*Record the show
*Take careful note of the categories
*Stop at each question to confirm which category it is
*Stop at each question to give time to answer the ones she or I has "on the tip of our tongues" but need a few seconds to blurt out
In the matter of categories, it's otherwise often unclear watching live. The contestant abbreviates or mumbles, causing us at home to miss it, meanwhile I am sure it is clear to them which category. I mean, sometimes the category is everything, such as "KILL BILL: VOL. 1" and the question is about what outlaw got killed in some place, some time in the West in the 19th Century. The question is hard if you don't know the details about Billy the Kid, but easy, even if you don't, if you catch on to the category. BTW IMO the show should modernize and show the category each time each question, damn it!
Anyway, I am curious as to how much better I would do taking the above steps at home. I have to carefully get the missus on board, though, she gets irritated with the DVR manipulation of mine sometimes.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 13th, 2015 at 7:37:15 AM
permalink
Quote: RSI don't like windmills, they're creepy.
Don't go to Holland.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 13th, 2015 at 9:42:30 AM
permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuyTechnically, the lowest "winning" score, if you can call it that, was zero; all three contestants ended up with zero in a first season episode. None of them were invited back the next day, so I don't think that counts. (There was also a game in a Seniors Tournament where all three had a negative amount after Double Jeopardy.)
However, there has been at least one episode before this season where the winner ended up with $1.
I found the all three zero tourney game. This one definitely wasn't seniors. It was the teen tournament. And like in the regular season, they punish a triple zero result. Alex said the highest scoring non-winner in the other semis would advance in their place. This should have never happened. The leader did a modified "Cliff Clavin". Sadly I got this final correct too.
And yes it looks like Stephanie set a new low for losing contestants, but not by much. The old low was -$6400.
March 13th, 2015 at 10:14:12 AM
permalink
Quote: tringlomaneI found the all three zero tourney game. This one definitely wasn't seniors. It was the teen tournament.
The Seniors Tournament game I am thinking of was in 1991, and note that in that case, they didn't even ask a Final Jeopardy question as there was nobody left to answer it (I think Alex spent the time talking about his tie). Also, in the Seniors' case, it was in a quarter-final, so the four QF winners advanced as well as five wild cards.
March 13th, 2015 at 11:54:34 AM
permalink
Like OG, I like to play along as well, although we rarely watch it.
I generally get about 80% of the single jeopardy questions right, meaning I can blurt the answer out before the contestant answers. But double jeopardy is my downfall. I can only answer about 25% of the questions. And I believe teddys has said most of the contestants know almost all the answers. It just comes down to who can ring in at the right time.
(speaking of that, did everyone catch the episode where the lady on the end was using 2 hands to push her button about 10 times on every question? It was hilarious and painful, all at the same time.)
I had a first in the game above. I answered the question correctly, while none of the contestants got it right. I don't think I ever did that before. I can't recall the answer, other than I remember it was a sports related question.
I generally get about 80% of the single jeopardy questions right, meaning I can blurt the answer out before the contestant answers. But double jeopardy is my downfall. I can only answer about 25% of the questions. And I believe teddys has said most of the contestants know almost all the answers. It just comes down to who can ring in at the right time.
(speaking of that, did everyone catch the episode where the lady on the end was using 2 hands to push her button about 10 times on every question? It was hilarious and painful, all at the same time.)
I had a first in the game above. I answered the question correctly, while none of the contestants got it right. I don't think I ever did that before. I can't recall the answer, other than I remember it was a sports related question.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
March 13th, 2015 at 12:12:02 PM
permalink
On the topic of the OP regarding tie games and strategy, it no longer applies. Starting this season, ties are broken by a tiebreaker clue. No more cochamps.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
March 13th, 2015 at 1:31:44 PM
permalink
Quote: DeucekiesOn the topic of the OP regarding tie games and strategy, it no longer applies. Starting this season, ties are broken by a tiebreaker clue. No more cochamps.
What BS is this? What's wrong with a tie? I guess they want to save $50k or so a season. Meh.
March 13th, 2015 at 2:59:51 PM
permalink
Quote: tringlomaneWhat BS is this? What's wrong with a tie? I guess they want to save $50k or so a season. Meh.
I don't think it is about saving money. I believe teddy said he would play for a tie, against an opponent he felt he could beat again. That way there would only be one new opponent, rather than two.
I submit the game producers are feeling the same way, and are taking measures to prevent that manipulation.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
March 13th, 2015 at 7:31:15 PM
permalink
I think this past season, the number of ties was far more than average, and it's wreaking havoc on the contestant coordinators' job. Remember every time there's a tie, one less player gets to play.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
March 14th, 2015 at 1:36:32 AM
permalink
Quote: RaleighCrapsI don't think it is about saving money. I believe teddy said he would play for a tie, against an opponent he felt he could beat again. That way there would only be one new opponent, rather than two.
I submit the game producers are feeling the same way, and are taking measures to prevent that manipulation.
Maybe so. But in reality this doesn't occur too often. I only remember one contestant that intentionally tied in every match where he led in final jeopardy (I think it was about 3). When he finally fell behind, the chick that he was co-champion with him set herself up to beat him by a dollar. Grrr....
And apparently there were more ties than normal last season. I don't watch this as much as I used to. I miss weights & measures. That is probably my best category.
March 14th, 2015 at 4:23:40 AM
permalink
Granted there is a lot that goes into it, but I think on average it is better to go against two random players than one random player and another who has proven to be the better of two random players.
If all you know about a random player is that he is superior to another random player, then on average he is better than 2/3 of all contestants. A random player will be better than 1/2 only, on average.
If all you know about a random player is that he is superior to another random player, then on average he is better than 2/3 of all contestants. A random player will be better than 1/2 only, on average.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 14th, 2015 at 7:00:01 AM
permalink
agree, to tie on purpose has to be poor strategy, you are allowing an almost indisputably good player to survive and challenge you again
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 14th, 2015 at 10:52:27 AM
permalink
I know Kristin. We ran in some of the same circles in college. Actually, I know way too many people who have been on the show. Including Larissa Kelley who I believe is one of the top ten money winners and definitely the highest-earning female. All from college quizzing tournaments.
I hope Kristin does very well.
I hope Kristin does very well.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
March 14th, 2015 at 12:06:15 PM
permalink
So, the last several years, the adult Jeopardy online tests were in January. But I didn't see the notice this year; did they hold them? I was in LV from the 7th and may simply have missed them, but I didn't see any emails, though I still get others from them. Just curious if anybody knows anything about it. Thanks.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
March 15th, 2015 at 2:37:14 PM
permalink
hey teddy,
As a previous contestant (and champ), are you allowed to try out for the show again, after some time has passed?
As a previous contestant (and champ), are you allowed to try out for the show again, after some time has passed?
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
March 15th, 2015 at 7:00:12 PM
permalink
Quote: RaleighCrapshey teddy,
As a previous contestant (and champ), are you allowed to try out for the show again, after some time has passed?
I'm not teddy, but I know the answer to that. No. Somebody a few years ago got busted for sneaking back on a second time.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
