reno
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November 16th, 2011 at 12:45:25 PM permalink
When a casino offers a free hotel room to either reward or entice a gambler, it's not "free" for the casino. Expenses are incurred. Here are my uneducated assumptions, help me correct them:

1) Opportunity cost. This occurs when the room is removed from the hotel's inventory of vacant rooms, and the hotel loses revenue that could have been. This expense is much greater for high roller properties (Wynn, Venetian) than for low roller properties (Circus Circus, Imperial Palace). But this cost is only measurable on busy nights when the hotel is booked up. On slow nights with many vacant rooms, there is no opportunity cost, right?

2) Materials and supplies. Miniature soap bars, mini shampoo bottles, toilet paper, laundry detergent for the towels/sheets. I'm guessing that these expenses add up to less than $5.

3) Electricity usage and water. I'm guessing that in Vegas the water is much more expensive than the electricity. $1? $2?

4) Wear and tear. Eventually all those mattresses, TVs, and lightbulbs need to be replaced.

5) Labor. The reservation agent, the front desk clerk, maybe the maintenance guy to replace a lightbulb, and maybe the casino host, if the gambler's play warrants it. But I'm guessing that aside from the casino host, the maid devotes more time to a free room than any other employee. How many rooms can a maid clean in 1 hour? Are the maids at Circus Circus expected to clean more rooms per hour than the maids at Bellagio?

What other expenses am I missing? Excluding opportunity cost, what's the grand total? $10? $15?
FleaStiff
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November 16th, 2011 at 1:05:45 PM permalink
The Casino Marketing Department pays for the room at an internal figure known as The Casino Rate.

In reality, the room is already reflected in interest payments and wage costs. The toiletries have already been purchased and the storage space already taken up by them. The Housekeeper is already on the payroll and her mop bucket is already paid for.

Its said that sixty percent of rooms are comped in which case it can more a question as to how much it would hurt a hotel to NOT comp a room. Some hotels are experimenting with late afternoon check ins and also with early morning checkins.

The casinos in Primm closed the hotels during the week rather than have them virtual ghosttowns. So obviously there is indeed some cost to a hotel room but I've long felt that once you get to sixty percent of the rooms being free, you might as well make them all free.
CrystalMath
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November 16th, 2011 at 1:09:34 PM permalink
Quote: reno


1) Opportunity cost. This occurs when the room is removed from the hotel's inventory of vacant rooms, and the hotel loses revenue that could have been. This expense is much greater for high roller properties (Wynn, Venetian) than for low roller properties (Circus Circus, Imperial Palace). But this cost is only measurable on busy nights when the hotel is booked up. On slow nights with many vacant rooms, there is no opportunity cost, right?
What other expenses am I missing? Excluding opportunity cost, what's the grand total? $10? $15?



I suspect that the opportunity cost is rather minimal most of the year. If there is even one un-booked room in the same room grade, there is no opportunity cost. Also, I wonder if the higher end properties have higher vacancy just because of the price.
I heart Crystal Math.
DJTeddyBear
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November 16th, 2011 at 1:52:54 PM permalink
In the late 1980's, I worked in a night club that was part of a hotel.

The staff was offered rooms, after the club closed at 3:00am, at the rate of $6 for one night. This was a courtesy rate for any staffer that was truly tired, or got drunk during the clean-up period after closing.

If they had unsold rooms after the last customer left the club, the room wasn't gonna get sold.

The price of $6 was what they estimated it cost to send housecleaning in and wash the sheets & towels.


So, at that hotel, in the 1980's, not considering all those other soft costs, the cost was $6. I'm not sure if that helps to answer the question or not...
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
pacomartin
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November 16th, 2011 at 3:14:59 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

In the late 1980's, I worked in a night club that was part of a hotel.

The staff was offered rooms, after the club closed at 3:00am, at the rate of $6 for one night. This was a courtesy rate for any staffer that was truly tired, or got drunk during the clean-up period after closing.

If they had unsold rooms after the last customer left the club, the room wasn't gonna get sold.

The price of $6 was what they estimated it cost to send housecleaning in and wash the sheets & towels.

So, at that hotel, in the 1980's, not considering all those other soft costs, the cost was $6. I'm not sure if that helps to answer the question or not...



I am sure that the fixed costs are higher than $6. Your night club didn't report those rooms to the IRS, it was just courtesy to the staff. What a boon to a Lothario on the staff.

When the downtown Vegas casino hotel rates were regularly going much below $30 they began to shut down the hotels, saying they couldn't afford to operate them.

Last fiscal year, we can look at the reports from the 23 casinos that made over $72 million per year individually in gaming revenue. I'll list those casinos at the bottom.
Together they had
25,935,123 rooms / 23 casinos = 1,127,614 rooms per casino /365 = 3,089 average available room per casino
23,343,511 rooms were either sold or comped for a 90.01% occupancy rate.

$2,150,807,736 value of the rooms sold ($2.1 billion)
$ 700,100,311 value of the rooms comped ($700 million)

The above ratio of the value of sold to comped rooms is roughly 3:1 . It would be interesting to see what is the actual ratio of sold to comped rooms. I would guess that the rooms that are comped are often of much higher value than the rooms sold. There is probably a battle with the IRS about the methods that a value is assigned to comped rooms, because the casino gets to deduct this as a business expense. I suspect that if the actual ratio of rooms is radically different than 3:1 then the IRS would have a big problem.

In any case, the average room cost was $122.13, and the average cost per available room would be $109.92 (including the vacancies).

I suspect if you added up the rooms listed for each of these casinos, you would get slightly more than an average of 3089. That is because if a wing is taken down for maintenance, it is not listed as an "available room". Once again it looks better on a balance sheet to have a higher occupancy percentage.

The 23 casinos that individually made over $72 million apiece in gaming revenue are:

Las Vegas Strip
MGM Resorts Inc
1 ARIA RESORT & CASINO
2 BELLAGIO
3 EXCALIBUR HOTEL AND CASINO
4 MANDALAY BAY RESORT & CASINO
5 MGM GRAND HOTEL/CASINO
6 MIRAGE, THE
7 MONTE CARLO RESORT & CASINO
8 NEW YORK - NEW YORK HOTEL & CASINO
9 LUXOR HOTEL AND CASINO
Ceasars Inc
10 CAESARS PALACE
11 BALLY'S LAS VEGAS
12 FLAMINGO LAS VEGAS/O'SHEAS
13 HARRAH'S CASINO HOTEL LAS VEGAS
14 PARIS LAS VEGAS
15 PLANET HOLLYWOOD RESORT & CASINO
16 RIO SUITE HOTEL & CASINO
Other Corporations
17 GOLD COAST HOTEL AND CASINO
18 LAS VEGAS HILTON
19 PALMS CASINO RESORT
20 TREASURE ISLAND
21 VENETIAN & PALAZZO
22 WYNN & ENCORE
23 PALACE STATION HOTEL


Notice that several high profile casino resorts like Hard Rock Casino are not on the list. Neither are some of the older casinos like Riviera, Circus Circus, Tropicana, and Imperial Palace.


Room expenses are listed as
$1,171,707,820 / 25,935,123 = $45.18

Note that I used the larger number of rooms including vacancies, because it seemed that most costs are there regardless if a room sits empty.

Then the departmental employee payroll is listed at $32.34 per day. I would use the $45 number since that would cover expendables and other costs like electricity and water.
FleaStiff
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November 16th, 2011 at 4:41:28 PM permalink
I just got an email for a 49.00 room at SouthPoint with a 20.00 Resort Credit and one of thus Fun Book of discount and twofer coupons. So what is the room really going for particularly if there is something about a free automatic upgrade?
DJTeddyBear
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November 16th, 2011 at 6:52:22 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I am sure that the fixed costs are higher than $6. Your night club didn't report those rooms to the IRS, it was just courtesy to the staff. What a boon to a Lothario on the staff.

I did mention, twice, that it was in the 1980's.

And they based it on the actual costs of an occupied room vs a vacant room. They didn't include any of the costs of having the room in the first place.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
pacomartin
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November 16th, 2011 at 9:13:26 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I did mention, twice, that it was in the 1980's.

And they based it on the actual costs of an occupied room vs a vacant room. They didn't include any of the costs of having the room in the first place.



Well maybe that estimate isn't that bad. The "room department" of a casino doesn't include the cost of financing the construction of the room either.

To follow my earlier post, the $45.18 that represents the average expense of the room can be further broken down.

$1.95 Payroll-Taxes
$6.65 Payroll-Employee Benefits
$0.12 Payroll-officers
$20.39 Payroll-Other Employees
$0.27 Bad Debt
$3.61 Complimentary Expenses
$12.19 Other Departmental Expenses
$45.18


I assume "complimentary expenses" refers to the chocolates, magazines, soap, shampoo, etc.
So, leaving out payroll expenses that is only $3.61+$12.19=$15.80 per room night. That is pretty much $6 adjusted for 30 years of inflation.

Either way, my guess is that the best answer to OP's question would be $45 if we consider the payroll for the staff.

Of course, the casino only gives the free room away thinking that they will get more on gambling eating or drinking.

The other way to look at the bottom line is that these 23 casinos have 26 million rooms for use in the fiscal year. They need to get people to spend $537.52 per available room night to break even. Considering that 10% of the rooms are empty, they need to get people to spend $597.20 per occupied room night.

It doesn't matter how it's done. You can pay for the room, or pay for it by gambling, or you can eat and drink, or go to shows, or buy stuff. But that is there break even point.
whatme
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November 16th, 2011 at 9:18:40 PM permalink
I was told by mgt and ran the numbers my self its about $32 for an average room/hotel for the upkeep not including the land.
pacomartin
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November 16th, 2011 at 9:19:05 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

I just got an email for a 49.00 room at SouthPoint with a 20.00 Resort Credit and one of thus Fun Book of discount and twofer coupons. So what is the room really going for particularly if there is something about a free automatic upgrade?



Southpoint is using old school Vegas techniques that Michael learned from his father. The rooms are simply a way to get people to stay on the property., They are not a profit center. Construction costs of those buildings was a fraction of strip costs.
FleaStiff
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November 17th, 2011 at 3:48:50 AM permalink
Frankly, I think the industry is in trouble because it became a playing ground for the MBA types and all their profit center analysis. Back in the good old mob days, they never have quite existed as strongly as we would like to believe, the mob had only ONE profit center: The Casino. There were no other concerns ever.

Rooms in downtown hotels were ten dollars. Rooms on the Strip were 18 and up.

But always the casino was the only bottom line there was.

Mirage opened with a "nut" of a million dollars a day but cleared that twice over their very first day. All the Mega Resorts had MBA types who wanted hotels and restaurants to make money. Now you've got people opening up nightclubs and dayclubs and restaurants that are blind to a casino. They are serving the Yuppies who just happen to be in a town that has casinos.

So now there are cost accountants involved and someone actually looks at the price of shampoo instead of the price of not having shampoo.
pacomartin
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November 17th, 2011 at 8:05:17 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

But always the casino was the only bottom line there was.



I think if you look at the numbers for 1970

6.79 million visitors
4 million enplaned/deplaned air passengers
25K rooms
70.0% occupancy
4.6K cars oer day from California
$369 million gaming revenue for Clark County

I think that they could have expanded on that business model to the massive levels that they reached in 2007.
kp
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November 17th, 2011 at 8:34:52 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I think that they could have expanded on that business model to the massive levels that they reached in 2007.


But instead they added huge resorts, shopping malls, multi-million dollar showrooms, and celebrity chefs all of which raised the cost of just walking in the door.
pacomartin
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November 17th, 2011 at 9:16:48 AM permalink
Quote: kp

But instead they added huge resorts, shopping malls, multi-million dollar showrooms, and celebrity chefs all of which raised the cost of just walking in the door.



But that old style kernel of business that existed in 1970 is still available today. Many of those 25K rooms that existed in 1970 have been torn down, but they have been replaced with rooms that follow the old business model.

Downtown Vegas has a similar ratio as the strip of 3 sold rooms per 1 comped room. But their "nut" to cover expenses is about $277 a day per available room. I am not sure how to correct that to 1970 for inflation, but it is probably about the same. You can still get cheap drinks while gambling, and nosh on $8 prime rib dinners. Most of the profit is derived from the casino.

There are about 9.5K rooms downtown. But if you include North strip, Palace station, Terrible's, Imperial Palace, Flamingo, Bally's etc. You get back to around the 25K rooms available in 1970.

You don't have those high rollers on Fremont Street like you did in 1970, when Vegas was the only legal place in the country to gamble.
dm
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November 17th, 2011 at 9:28:10 AM permalink
Quote: whatme

I was told by mgt and ran the numbers my self its about $32 for an average room/hotel for the upkeep not including the land.



I have heard the figure $10. It depends on the user, too. How big a mess they make, use both beds, dirty all linen, take home all the toilet items every day, utilize room service every day, etc.. I personally do none of those. I leave the lest signature I possibly can if I'm treated well.
aluisio
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November 17th, 2011 at 10:16:11 AM permalink
Quote: dm

I have heard the figure $10. It depends on the user, too. How big a mess they make, use both beds, dirty all linen, take home all the toilet items every day, utilize room service every day, etc.. I personally do none of those. I leave the lest signature I possibly can if I'm treated well.



Excuse-me for the question, but where have you heard it?
No bounce, no play.
FleaStiff
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November 17th, 2011 at 10:30:49 AM permalink
I imagine hotel associations outside Nevada have some of this information though I'm sure its nowhere near as precise as they pretend it is. In Vegas the questions is What is the cost of our NOT comping this room. Losing a "good customer" (ie, frequent and consistent loser) is not good. But the viewpoint is skewed in Vegas. Remember that Imperial Palace construction edict: Nary a bathtub any where in the place! He wanted gamblers in the casino, not relaxers in their bath tubs. Cost of the water? Never entered his head. Costs are reflected in the casino's bottom line, not in the water bill. Its probably the same way with towels and robes and soap wrappers ... a room is cheap.
dm
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November 17th, 2011 at 10:52:25 AM permalink
Quote: aluisio

Excuse-me for the question, but where have you heard it?



I have no idea, except I am a long time follower of LVA and, of course, here. I assumed that was an estimate of the variable costs only, maybe.
pacomartin
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November 17th, 2011 at 11:13:09 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Its probably the same way with towels and robes and soap wrappers ... a room is cheap.



Very important point. In most hotels a single slot machine brings in as much revenue as a hotel room.

However, the business in Nevada is very mature. Almost every resort is unprofitable if they are losing money on their hotel today. It's not like PA where a slot machine generated $300 a day before taxes, and $140 a day after taxes, and you don't have to sell cheap rooms or subsidize food costs.

There are 190K slot machines in Nevada. You can no longer open a joint, sell cheap burgers, and install a couple of slot machines and find yourself on easy street.
Ayecarumba
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November 17th, 2011 at 12:32:02 PM permalink
Do the hotels pay "room tax" to the state/county on rooms that are comped?
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teddys
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November 17th, 2011 at 12:45:05 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

There are 190K slot machines in Nevada. You can no longer open a joint, sell cheap burgers, and install a couple of slot machines and find yourself on easy street.

Sure doesn't stop a heck of lot of people from trying. And a lot of gas stations, casual restaurant chains, and pubs do very well, although they are often owners who have built up a small chain of 5-10 units. I agree it is very competitive to get off the ground with just one location.
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whatme
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November 17th, 2011 at 2:56:17 PM permalink
Hotels in las pay the $2 and $5 in ac (last time I checked) hotel occupancy tax. btw the wear and tear of bed lines and cleaning for 1 bed can easily cost $5-10 per use and a hotel is supused to chang all linens whether they think it was used or not.


edit: its $5 in ac
pacomartin
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November 17th, 2011 at 4:05:06 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Do the hotels pay "room tax" to the state/county on rooms that are comped?



They could still have to pay an "occupancy tax". That way the county gets some money regardless of what they sell the room for.
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