FAA grants approval for giant ferris wheel

Perhaps those newly opened casinos will learn to compete better. Vegas casinos often feature shrimp cocktails but I would think that Biloxi, MS can get fresher shrimp than Vegas. You might have far more choice in Vegas but Biloxi has choice enough. Its these geographically isolated Indian casinos that either soak up a local customer base or they do not.

Quote: thecesspit

Yeah, Vegas no longer has a unique selling point that's as all pervasive as it once was.

In the 70's and 80's, there was Vegas and AC and thats it. AC didn't open till the late 70's. Then in the 90's Vegas really started to expand and go nuts, but so did the Indian casino craze. Vegas was losing its customer base and at the same time expanding like a balloon about to pop. Then the financial thing hit 3 years ago and people said, hey, I'll just stay home and gamble in these great new casinos that are opening everywhere, who needs Vegas. In the Midwest, the number of new casinos in the last 5 years is extraordinary. And they're still opening, and every one that does bleeds just that much more money away from Vegas. Whats ironic is, the very greed that built Vegas, is what eventually killed it.

Quote: FleaStiff

Perhaps those newly opened casinos will learn to compete better.

They do OK. Lots of room comps, lots of new car and truck promotions, lots of slot tournaments, lots of stuff you get in the mail for free slot play. Most of the casinos around here have a new truck or big fancy car parked right in the foyer when you walk in, usually more than one. Something is always going on. Most of the buffets are as good as anything in Vegas. And when you're done, you get to go home.

Quote: EvenBob

In the 70's and 80's, there was Vegas and AC and thats it. AC didn't open till the late 70's. Then in the 90's Vegas really started to expand and go nuts, but so did the Indian casino craze. Vegas was losing its customer base and at the same time expanding like a balloon about to pop. Then the financial thing hit 3 years ago and people said, hey, I'll just stay home and gamble in these great new casinos that are opening everywhere, who needs Vegas. In the Midwest, the number of new casinos in the last 5 years is extraordinary. And they're still opening, and every one that does bleeds just that much more money away from Vegas. Whats ironic is, the very greed that built Vegas, is what eventually killed it.

Not only was it unique in the US, it was unique world wide. So they got international visitors as well. It still gets some traffic that way (me for instance), but it's never going to be enough on it's own to sustain a city in the desert.

Casino's have opened up around the world (south-east Asia is leading the way, but other places have more accessible gambling now).

When I was on my first trip to Vegas this last February, I was questioning how it came to be. Not so much the gambling scene, but the very town itself. Most cities share some common factors of why they were built and how they've survived, usually to include either a major transport hub and access to fresh water. Many cities sprung up by rivers, which supplied irrigation, travel, transport of goods, and power for mills. They sprung up next to high traffic corridors, like the railroads. They sprung up next to booming resources, like the gold rush. Vegas, however, confused me. I saw no major hub, no resources whatsoever, no geographically madated funneling of the population. Just Lake Mead a ways off and this big city plopped literally in the middle of nowhere. I was told it basically popped up due to the construction of Hoover Dam and continued on through surge of the gaming industry. If this is true, and with these comments and this trend of gaming no longer being 'a Vegas thing', could Vegas die out completely in my lifetime?

I mean no disrespect to the Vegans (Vegasans? Vegasians? Veganites?) here, but what fuels the city other than gaming? I do think Vegas, at this time, is still at least unique enough to remain viable, and don't forsee and end to Vegas as we know it, but I was just curious. If gaming did indeed trend towards staying local and gaming in Vegas failed, would the town dry up and *poof* fade into American folk lore?

Quote: Face

When I was on my first trip to Vegas this last February, I was questioning how it came to be. Not so much the gambling scene, but the very town itself. Most cities share some common factors of why they were built and how they've survived, usually to include either a major transport hub and access to fresh water.

Yes.

I should stop there, but that would be cruel.

Las Vegas is Spanish for "The Meadows." There's relatively abundant water in Vegas in the form of artesian wells (look it up). So the Spaniards first set up there, then eventually the railroads passed through there, because of the water.

You always need a stop on the way to somewhere else.

The military base and supporting personnel would likely be here -- because the area is rich in resources for military use. (large unpopulated areas for training and blowing shit up)

Quote: Face

If this is true, and with these comments and this trend of gaming no longer being 'a Vegas thing', could Vegas die out completely in my lifetime?

It won't die, it will just have to scale down. Less customers means fewer hotels and casinos. I read here or somewhere that 55% of the people visiting Vegas are from SoCal. Its inevitable, given the financial state of CA, that they'll eventually have real Vegas type casinos. That will be the end of Vegas as we know it. Property values and jobs are still declining now, if CA gets casinos, fugettaboutit....

I believe Las Vegas sprang up because it was the halfway point between LA and Salt Lake City on the railroad. And it had water. Lake Mead wasn't even born yet, not for another 35 years.

And I haven't seen this point made here yet, but the ferris wheel will have glass-walled, fully enclosed gondolas that carry 25 people in air conditioned comfort, not open-aired cars that people could jump from.

Quote: zippyboy

And I haven't seen this point made here yet, but the ferris wheel will have glass-walled, fully enclosed gondolas that carry 25 people in air conditioned comfort, not open-aired cars that people could jump from.

Here's a good article and artist impression of what it will look like.

Wheel

It's hard to imagine that they can be that close to the airport.



Ceasars Project Link


Voyager ferris wheel


London resort

Personally, I think Ceasars needs a good thrill ride for behind Imperial Palace

Quote: pacomartin

It's hard to imagine that they can be that close to the airport.

The runways don't go the same direction as the Strip, it shouldn't be a problem.

Quote: zippyboy

I believe Las Vegas sprang up because it was the halfway point between LA and Salt Lake City on the railroad. And it had water. Lake Mead wasn't even born yet, not for another 35 years.

I didn't know Vegas was before Mead (I'm ignorant of most things West). How did Vegas even come to be?

I realize in this day and age that an entire city vanishing is pretty unlikely. I guess I was hinting as to what does Vegas offer? The 'halfway point' I guess make sense, but I'd think if the halway point was just a huge expanse of hot nothingness, they'd wait and make a city a little closer to something better. And I did forget about the military presence, but 'military towns' are not uncommon, and are rarely as big as this city (at least I don't think so). It just intrigues me. I only had that one experience in the city, but it seems to be that there are many casino's peppered with a few small businesses, surrounded by some housing, and then it knife-edges into the desert. It just stops. And there's NOTHING as far as the eye can see. It just doesn't fit the blueprint I have in my head about how a city comes to be. Perhaps some research is in order.

Quote: Face

I didn't know Vegas was before Mead (I'm ignorant of most things West). How did Vegas even come to be?

Here's a pic of Vegas in 1915, long before gambling was legal. Go to the site in the pic and you'll some great stuff..

They said the London Eye was suppose to close down after a certain date originally, but its success kept it open. That was one of the justifications for this wheel.

And though Vegas is not generally a kid friendly destination, I can certainly imagine the kids that do come in on a flight in McCarren looking out their plane window and seeing that big revolving wheel. What do you think they'll say to their parents?

Quote: Face

I didn't know Vegas was before Mead (I'm ignorant of most things West). How did Vegas even come to be?

I realize in this day and age that an entire city vanishing is pretty unlikely. I guess I was hinting as to what does Vegas offer? The 'halfway point' I guess make sense, but I'd think if the halway point was just a huge expanse of hot nothingness, they'd wait and make a city a little closer to something better. And I did forget about the military presence, but 'military towns' are not uncommon, and are rarely as big as this city (at least I don't think so). It just intrigues me. I only had that one experience in the city, but it seems to be that there are many casino's peppered with a few small businesses, surrounded by some housing, and then it knife-edges into the desert. It just stops. And there's NOTHING as far as the eye can see. It just doesn't fit the blueprint I have in my head about how a city comes to be. Perhaps some research is in order.

Vegas existed before Lake Mead, but it was pretty small. The building of the dam was a significant event.

Vegas is not likely to vanish, it's simply has no reasonable way to grow under the current conditions. There is no negative population change in the county.

The only state with in the last census with negative population change was Michigan, based on nearly quarter million loss of people from Detroit over the ten year period. As many as half a million left the state. By next census you would reasonably expect negative population change in PA, MD, NJ, NY, CT, RI, OH, WV etc., but you will still have growth in NV.

But the lack of diversity in industry is disturbing. Metropolitan Pittsburgh is between the size of Clark County Nevada and the whole state of Nevada. They are struggling with population loss, which is likely to get worse in the next ten years.

But for Fortune 500 companies they have eight companies there, with a total revenue of $80 billion

United States Steel
PNC Financial Services Group
PPG Industries
H.J. Heinz
Mylan
Consol Energy
Wesco International
Dick's Sporting Goods


Nevada has three with combined revenue of roughly $21 billion

Caesars Entertainment
Las Vegas Sands
MGM Resorts International

Lack of diversity can be a problem, such as when the newspapers were trumpeting that Vegas was proving to not be as recession proof as it had thought. Yet with all this Non-Gambling Revenue it seems that those clubs, restaurants, etc. are indeed linked to the casinos to some degree. All those "shadow casinos" show how pervasive gambling actually is in Las Vegas. Gas stations, grocery stores, Burger and Beer joints, they all seem to be taking a nick out of the local economy.

A sleepy little desert town grew but mere legalization of gambling wasn't the sole cause. Depression era government spending helped, World War Two military bases, Cold War military spending all helped. Later, Vegas did morph into a playland. It used to be that Reno was the destination for a divorce but then Vegas became a destination for everything as Hollywood headliners were flying in all the time, showgirls were all over the billboards and post-Thorpe hiring absorbed job seekers without let up.

Clubs, pools, restaurants, etc. all provide non-gambling revenue but its obvious that physical presence in Vegas is necessary and often the physical presence of a customer is still related to the casinos even if the time and money spent in the casino is declining markedly. Whether the draw of Vegas is "the roulette wheel" or the "buzz" reflected in the Elvis song about " a fortune won and lost on every spin of the roulette whee, gambling is still the draw for much of the non-gambling revenue.

Oh sure, some retiree who gambles away her check each month at Dottys doesn't much care what the casinos do but even those casino pool parties for the yuppies affect the traffic and parking for a retiree who limits her actions to some distant Dottys.

Diversity? Its often a desired goal but even when it exists, it is no cure all.

Quote: FleaStiff

Diversity? Its often a desired goal but even when it exists, it is no cure all.

Bingo! Whats happening in all the other real casinos in the country is, gambling IS the main attraction and everything revolves around it. Thats used to be Vegas, but not anymore. Now they have to build 10,000 foot high wheels to attract people, and any other whistles and bells they can dream up. As soon as any industry has to do that, they're doomed. In the 70's and 80's and 90's I went to Vegas for one reason, to gamble. Now gambling is 15min from my house. Its like a slow moving glacier, crushing everything in its path. Its not diversify or die, its diversify to hold on just a little while longer, in Las Vegas.

Quote: EvenBob

Its not diversify or die, its diversify to hold on just a little while longer, in Las Vegas.

What about that Gresham dude? Eventually the existing attractions simply become too bland to support a continued flow of visitors. Its like the guy who wrote a review of a casino several weeks before it opened. He simply wrote the usual stuff about flashing lights and tables and bars etc. Soon the review of the restaurant or the review of the Ferris wheel becomes pretty much the same thing. Building yet another Ferris wheel just won't cut it. Building it higher or faster just won't cut it.

Eventually one reaches a point wherein everybody has gambling 15 minutes from their house and there really is no great reason to trek to Vegas to celebrate Nostalgia Day in style when 15 minutes away there is a casino that is also celebrating Nostalgia Day, albeit on some less grand scale.

Quote: FleaStiff

... You might have far more choice in Vegas but Biloxi has choice enough.

My wife and I have stayed and played in Biloxi three times. We have also played in Natchez, Vicksburg, Greenville, and all of the spots around Tunica, staying in each of those towns except Greenville. I like both Biloxi and Tunica, and I expect we will return to both places several more times.

However, they are nothing at all like Las Vegas.

I go to Mississippi casinos from North Carolina because I can drive there in a day each way, and I have plenty of time to spare. I have friends who play at a level that their flights are comped, but at my low-roller level it's either pay for a flight or drive. I just checked Delta and USAir to confirm that a round-trip airline ticket Charlotte to Las Vegas costs $75 more than one Charlotte to Gulfport/Biloxi. If I'm going to pay to fly, I'd rather pay 75 bucks extra for travel to the Las Vegas Experience rather than the Biloxi experience.

Quote: EvenBob

It won't die, it will just have to scale down. Less customers means fewer hotels and casinos. I read here or somewhere that 55% of the people visiting Vegas are from SoCal. Its inevitable, given the financial state of CA, that they'll eventually have real Vegas type casinos. That will be the end of Vegas as we know it. Property values and jobs are still declining now, if CA gets casinos, fugettaboutit....

You are mistaken Bob, We have Vegas style casinos here in SoCal and have had them all of my adult life. I am 250 miles from Vegas but within 100 miles there are at least 10 Injun casinos offering Vegas style games, including Pechanga, which has more gaming space than any casino in Nevada.

Quote: EvenBob

I read here or somewhere that 55% of the people visiting Vegas are from SoCal.

I think it is closer to 25%. There are 19.3 million people that board an airplane in Vegas (down from 21 million). The traffic by the locals is minimal. A lot of people come from Phoenix, No-Cal, Utah, and the midwest. There is still a lot of people from the East.

Paco -

That ignores those who will drive from Southern California.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Paco -

That ignores those who will drive from Southern California.

I got the 25% from a source independent of mode of transportation. I was just trying to make it sensible.

Quote: Doc

I like both Biloxi and Tunica, and I expect we will return to both places several more times. However, they are nothing at all like Las Vegas.

True, but how many more casinos do you need to choose from? More and better shows in Vegas. Better restaurants and certainly more of them.

But that longer(?) plane ride and higher priced ticket may soon cause people to stop bothering with Vegas.

An actor may dream of playing on Broadway but going on the Dinner Theater circuit is often a more sensible choice. Gamblers dream of Las Vegas and value it, but in a time when casinos of some sort are everywhere a good many gamblers seem to be saying What Happens Fifteen Minutes Away Is Better.

I think the growth of poker will also factor in. Why goes to Vegas to play strangers versus playing against the locals ??

Quote: bigfoot66

You are mistaken Bob, We have Vegas style casinos here in SoCal and have had them all of my adult life.

CA casinos don't offer dice games or roulette, and slots are not allowed in card rooms, of which there are a jillion. The casinos in SoCal offer some of the games Vegas does, in my area places like that are called 'Mickey Mouse casinos' and they do a third of the business a real casino does. CA is the 6th largest gambling state, and of the 6, its the only one that doesn't allow high stakes gambling. If they ever allow dice games and roulette, slots in every casino, high stakes betting and sports betting, why would you need to go to Vegas.

Quote: FleaStiff

True, but how many more casinos do you need to choose from? More and better shows in Vegas. Better restaurants and certainly more of them.

But that longer(?) plane ride and higher priced ticket may soon cause people to stop bothering with Vegas. ... in a time when casinos of some sort are everywhere a good many gamblers seem to be saying What Happens Fifteen Minutes Away Is Better.

The only "casino" in North Carolina is Harrah's Cherokee. I went there once, and there is nothing there to make me want to go back. Ever.

The next closest casinos are in West Virginia. I have played in all of them except Charlestown. Yes, I can find a crap table in WVa that's as good as any, but only one casino in any area. Going there to stay would mean spending all my time at one table, and I enjoy myself more when there is a little variety. Only the Greenbrier has anything other than gambling that would interest me, and it is really out of my socio-economic stratus. I will play in West Virginia when passing through on some other purpose, but I doubt I would travel there for an extended visit at any of the casinos.

Next closest are the Delaware casinos or some of the ones in PA. I have been to the three in Delaware and doubt I will bother to go back. I will probably check out some of the ones in PA if only to add to my chip collection. I don't see DE or PA as really offering a vacation destination for me.

I live roughly mid way between Atlantic City and Biloxi/Tunica. Either direction is a long day's drive and offers a variety of Casinos. Biloxi and Tunica offer me lower room rates, sometimes free. The major shortcoming that these casino centers have compared to Las Vegas is the very limited options for entertainment other than gambling. Most any weekend, there will be someone that I have heard of performing in Biloxi or Tunica or Atlantic City. But there would probably be only one, and what would I do other than gamble on a Wednesday or Thursday night?

Las Vegas just offers me a whole lot more options -- gambling and otherwise -- than any of the other casino centers that I have visited so far. I will go to the others, but they won't keep me from returning to Las Vegas on a regular basis.

Now if I did have a real casino close enough that I could drop by for a few hours in the evening, that might satisfy my gambling urges so that I only paid the cost of travel to Nevada when I wanted to combine gambling with a couple of shows or something more. So far, there is no nearby option like that available to me and none visible on the time horizon. If I have to pay the price of a trip, Las Vegas remains a viable option for me. Therefore, I'll be there for WoVCon!

.....

I still think that you are mistaken Bob. It is true that there is no sports betting in CA, but they do have modified versions of Craps and Roulette that use cards and the games are popular (and the odds are identical to the vegas version of the games). I don't know what you mean when you say that there is no high stakes betting, I have seen $3000 bets at the tables before and I assume that is not the max. It is also true that the card rooms are not Vegas style casinos, but there are at few dozen Indian Casinos which are almost exactly like anything on the strip. I dont think people in SoCal are driving the 250 miles to Vegas instead of the 70 miles to their nearest Indian Casino because the roullete game is card based rather than using a steel ball.

I go to Vegas over Pechanga for several reasons: Lower table limits, looser slots/video poker, "free" alcohol, more liberal players clubs, etc. But the real reason I go to Vegas is because I can get hammered and go nuts in Vegas in a way that I just can't in SoCal. SoCal casinos are all about the gaming, but the strip is just a huge nonstop party. It is a very different atmosphere and it is worth the drive.

Quote: bigfoot66

I still think that you are mistaken Bob. It is true that there is no sports betting in CA, but they do have modified versions of Craps and Roulette that use cards and the games are popular

Those games are a joke. You can put a dog costume on a pig and call it a dog, but its still a pig. Why do you think CA doesn't offer dice games and games like roulette? Because NV has a strong lobby in CA, thats why. They know if CA ever gets the same casinos they have, they're going to lose a ton of business. Nevada gets a huge amount of customers from CA, 26% from SoCal alone. No way they can afford to lose even part of that, let alone what they get from the rest of the state.

So if I understand you correctly Bob, the only reason that SoCal people go tovegas is because our local casinos dont use a steel ball in roulette?The experience is exactly the same either way. Now say what you will about how enjoyable a card craps game is, People still play, and its nuts to think that such a small difference in the game is why people drive 4 hours to vegas instead of 1 hour to the injun casino.

.....

Quote: bigfoot66

So if I understand you correctly Bob, the only reason that SoCal people go tovegas is because our local casinos dont use a steel ball in roulette?

When you look at the whole package, real roulette and craps, sports betting, slots everywhere you go, the feeling of being in a gambling town, there's no comparison. If CA ever embraces Vegas gambling, there is nothing to stop small Vegas-like gambling towns springing up. And with CA being dead broke and in debt, that can easily be on the horizon.

Just heard on Five Hundy by Midnight's podcast that the
ferris wheel is not gonna happen. They couldn't get
funding.