Will Fountainbleau ever be completed?
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 | 15 votes (60%) | ||
| | 10 votes (40%) |
25 members have voted
February 6th, 2011 at 8:36:49 PM
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Ritz Carlton in Hong Kong @ 31 stories and 465' is the tallest hotel every knocked down, and one of the newest buildings ever demolished at only 15 years old.
The building was replaced with a much larger office buildings, and Ritz is replacing the hotel this year with the tallest hotel ever built 1588' and 108 stories (4th tallest building in the world).
The tallest building ever demolished (excepting 9-11) is the Singer building completed in 1908 and demolished 1968, 47 floors and 612'.
If Fountainbleau gets demolished it will set a world record for height (63 floors and 735') and obviously as one of the few buildings demolished without being used.
The building was replaced with a much larger office buildings, and Ritz is replacing the hotel this year with the tallest hotel ever built 1588' and 108 stories (4th tallest building in the world).
The tallest building ever demolished (excepting 9-11) is the Singer building completed in 1908 and demolished 1968, 47 floors and 612'.
If Fountainbleau gets demolished it will set a world record for height (63 floors and 735') and obviously as one of the few buildings demolished without being used.
February 7th, 2011 at 3:13:12 AM
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Without being used?
I thought it was being used as a giant billboard.
Why would they demolish it unless land values were rising. In this market, I would expect them to be plummeting and nowhere near that fifty million an acre mark.
I thought it was being used as a giant billboard.
Why would they demolish it unless land values were rising. In this market, I would expect them to be plummeting and nowhere near that fifty million an acre mark.
February 7th, 2011 at 4:59:00 AM
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It would probably cost less to finish it than to demolish it.
Therefore, sooner or later, it will be finished.
Ditto for Revel in Atlantic City.
Therefore, sooner or later, it will be finished.
Ditto for Revel in Atlantic City.
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February 7th, 2011 at 6:01:52 AM
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I think Revel in Atlantic City just opened or just announced an opening or some such thing... I saw the headline but I was snockered at the time and don't remember it.
February 7th, 2011 at 6:20:28 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffI think Revel in Atlantic City just opened or just announced an opening or some such thing... I saw the headline but I was snockered at the time and don't remember it.
Atlantic City needs to become Las Vegas East,” Governor Christie said in an interview at Bloomberg headquarters in New York. “It needs to become a place that caters to convention business, that caters to summer vacation business.”
Christie said he’s counting on completion of the casino, a half-built, 53-story hotel and casino on 20 acres of beachfront property, to add jobs to the state’s slumping economy and inject new life into the city’s gambling industry. The Revel would be the city’s biggest if completed according to its original plan, which called for two towers with 3,800 hotel rooms and 150,000 square feet of gambling space.
He intends for the state to loan money to complete the casino.
The Ryugyong Hotel, in North Korea, has the longest construction period of any hotel in history. Work began in 1987 and completely stopped for 16 years. It is now slated to be completed in 2012 for an impressive 105 stories. It may have as many as 7,665 hotel rooms (details are scarce) which would be more than the combined Venetian and Palazzo.
August 16th, 2011 at 5:54:29 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearIt would probably cost less to finish it than to demolish it.
Carl Icahn bought the Fountainbleau for a bargain basement price of $151 million in January 2010 when it was only 70 percent complete. The New York Post says that finishing the last remaining 30 percent would cost at least $1.6 billion, not including the furniture. Since he has already sold the Fountainbleau's existing furniture to those hotels in lovely Primm, Nevada, it's obvious that Icahn has no intention of spending the money to finish construction.
My question: if they do implode the Fountainbleau, how much is the parcel of land that it sits on worth? If Icahn sells the land, will he be able to recoup his investment? If not, I'm surprised that a savvy investor like Icahn made this particular mistake.
August 16th, 2011 at 6:41:29 PM
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Quote: renoMy question: if they do implode the Fountainbleau, how much is the parcel of land that it sits on worth?
I don't know, but I would bet it would be worth less than the expense of imploding the FB. At least it was evidently made better than the Harmon, as I've never of any deadline to implode the eyesore.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
August 16th, 2011 at 6:42:07 PM
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Quote: renoSince he has already sold the Fountainbleau's existing furniture to those hotels in lovely Primm, Nevada,
Didn't the Plaza buy some of it too, for the reopening?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 16th, 2011 at 6:56:12 PM
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Yes. The Plaza has all new Fountainblew[sic] furniture. It should be lovely.Quote: EvenBobDidn't the Plaza buy some of it too, for the reopening?
They should knock down the Fountainbleau. It's fugly.
The Revel is opening in May as a Smoke-Free facility.^*#!
^ - maybe
* - Who knows for sure
# - possibly
! - We'll see
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
August 16th, 2011 at 10:36:38 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearIt would probably cost less to finish it than to demolish it.
Therefore, sooner or later, it will be finished.
Ditto for Revel in Atlantic City.
That may or may not be true. As I have pointed out before this would be the largest building ever deliberately demolished. However, if you demolish it you would just have to build a new tower in it's place. The building is secure from the elements and could stand empty like it is for a decade. In any case it is a very tiny percent of Carl Icahn's portfolio and he can sit on it virtually forever if he so chooses.
The relevant figure is that roughly $1.675 billion has been borrowed against the project and contractors have asserted liens of $424 million against it. It would make sense for Carl to wait out these investors so that he can buy out those liens for pennies on the dollar. Presumably they are not multi-billionaires and need to settle and collect some money sooner or later.
Christopher Milan took out a $450 million option on the empty land next door where the Wet & Wild park used to be. When that option expired in June 2008 he paid the penalty (which may have been close to $100 million) and he optioned the same land for over $600 million. Both plots of land are about 25 acres.
People are hesitant to say what land on the strip is worth since no one is buying and no one is selling. The only strip property sale since the February 2008 sale of the Stratosphere (for a price agreed to in May 2007) has been the $25 million acquisition of 2.15 acres at Harmon Avenue and Las Vegas Boulevard by developer Brett Torino in February 2010 which was purchased from Clark County in a land auction. He is building a shopping complex around a drug store.
August 17th, 2011 at 6:49:36 AM
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Related question, had the FB and Echelon been completed, would the Sahara have remained open?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
August 17th, 2011 at 9:56:04 AM
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Quote: NareedRelated question, had the FB and Echelon been completed, would the Sahara have remained open?
I'd vote no on that... however, the property wouldn't be dormant. "Old Vegas" seems to be dead on the strip, and it's just a matter of time before Riviera is gone too. I think Sahara would have been razed to make room for another big property, maybe an Asian themed destination. There would have been an attraction to create a new resort specifically targeted to that demographic.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
August 17th, 2011 at 11:33:53 AM
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Quote: NareedRelated question, had the FB and Echelon been completed, would the Sahara have remained open?
That's a tough question. In any normal downturn the FB and Echelon would have been completed. If there was enough business for them, it would seem that there would be enough business for Sahara.
A more interesting question is if the New Frontier and Stardust had remained operating would the North Strip have remained intact as a low cost destination. I vote YES on this question. My argument is that downtown survived two decades of stagnant revenues by simply constantly cutting costs. Without the burden of huge interest payments you have a lot of flexibility with operating costs. You limit hours on the restaurants, or close bars here and there. You cut back on comps, etc. Within reason you can usually remain profitable given that revenue doesn't nosedive.
October 14th, 2011 at 12:07:32 AM
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October 14th, 2011 at 2:17:53 AM
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Quote: renoAnother blogger has noted that Fountainbleau was built with 70,000 tons of steel, and with the price of steel at $900/ton, there's $63.5 million worth of scrap metal to be mined. (This doesn't include Fountainbleau's copper piping.) On the other hand, mining that metal won't be easy. Or cheap.
Wow, now we are talking about pennies on the dollar, when you are talking about knocking down a 700' tower for scrap. The FB is unprecedented in American construction.
There has to be a point in time when the Riviera and Circus Circus shut down. The Hilton is doing poorly. Since the Convention Center is not going to shut down, there will eventually be a need for the FB. The recovery of scrap is not going to be an issue,
October 14th, 2011 at 3:52:02 AM
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Quote: pacomartin
If Fountainbleau gets demolished it will set a world record for height (63 floors and 735') and obviously as one of the few buildings demolished without being used.
It is going to get demolished and its not going to make any headlines at all.
It will be a two-step process.
Step one will be: Rename it The Porte Cochere.
Setp two will be: Give it to Steve Wynn.
October 14th, 2011 at 3:57:05 PM
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Quote: pacomartinThere has to be a point in time when the Riviera and Circus Circus shut down. The Hilton is doing poorly. Since the Convention Center is not going to shut down, there will eventually be a need for the FB. The recovery of scrap is not going to be an issue,
Back in the 70s & 80s, the Hilton was one of the hot spots in town. I assume that these days the Hilton's niche is catering to the convention crowd, and yet even with all those conventions the aging Hilton isn't doing well. If Riviera or Circus Circus shut down, would the Hilton bounce back?
I can't imagine that the closure of Circus Circus would entice Icahn or any other owner to invest $1 billion to finish the Fountainbleau. This town already has an excess capacity of rooms, and there's no way that the upscale Fountainbleau would pursue the lowbrow Circus Circus customers accustomed to spending $39 on a room.
October 14th, 2011 at 4:08:57 PM
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Quote: renoBack in the 70s & 80s, the Hilton was one of the hot spots in town.
I remember when the Hilton was hot, but it was only
because Elvis played there. In my mind, the place has
been a dump for the last 20 years.
Elvis Hilton
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 14th, 2011 at 4:21:12 PM
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Ichan is no fool. I think he will sit on the property for another six years (when the economic stimulus of the next change in White House administrations kicks in), and then sell the whole kit and kaboodle. The new owners will take a huge federal/state/county supported mortgage to finish the project. It will get done... someday.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
October 14th, 2011 at 4:21:32 PM
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I've been to almost every strip and downtown casino, and plenty off strip. I've still never been to the Hilton, despite all I have heard about the sports book there.
I guess I should put it on the list for the next trip...
I guess I should put it on the list for the next trip...
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
October 14th, 2011 at 4:50:55 PM
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Quote: thecesspitI guess I should put it on the list for the next trip...
Don't bother, its a dump. I hear they can't even afford
to get rid of some of their coin slots for the newer
modern ones. Either that, or their core crowd, the old
folks with the oxygen tanks, won't let them get rid of
them.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
October 14th, 2011 at 5:19:19 PM
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Quote: thecesspitI've still never been to the Hilton, despite all I have heard about the sports book there.
I went on my first trip in 08 to visit the Trek attraction. That's gone now, so there's no reason to go there any more.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
October 14th, 2011 at 6:31:36 PM
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Quote: NareedI went on my first trip in 08 to visit the Trek attraction. That's gone now, so there's no reason to go there any more.
Did you go to Quark's Bar and have the Warp Core Breach?
Good times...
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
October 14th, 2011 at 7:19:27 PM
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Quote: MathExtremistDid you go to Quark's Bar and have the Warp Core Breach?
I looked around Quark's, but didn't get anything.
I bought an isolinear chip key chain, though :)
Quote:Good times...
Oh, indeed. I'm just glad I went before they tore it down.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
October 14th, 2011 at 10:16:51 PM
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Quote: pacomartin
The Ryugyong Hotel, in North Korea, has the longest construction period of any hotel in history. Work began in 1987 and completely stopped for 16 years. It is now slated to be completed in 2012 for an impressive 105 stories. It may have as many as 7,665 hotel rooms (details are scarce) which would be more than the combined Venetian and Palazzo.
Is it me or does that look like a giant missile the N Koreans are building to look like a hotel? Get Dick Cheney on the phone!
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because."
— E.E. Cummings
October 15th, 2011 at 2:19:04 AM
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Quote: renoI can't imagine that the closure of Circus Circus would entice Icahn or any other owner to invest $1 billion to finish the Fountainbleau. This town already has an excess capacity of rooms, and there's no way that the upscale Fountainbleau would pursue the lowbrow Circus Circus customers accustomed to spending $39 on a room.
I didn't mean that they would get the same customers. The closure of the old places may signify that the area is ready to go upscale. There are some expensive condominiums nearby.
October 15th, 2011 at 3:43:18 AM
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Cleaning out an area is often a prelude to going upscale.
October 15th, 2011 at 9:00:42 AM
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I wonder if the same inspectors that worked the Harmon might have also been involved with FB? But assuming the completed building would be habitable, would it necessarily be worth more completed than it is now?
