RFID Questions

Do the RFID transmitters in casino chips (like the Bellagio's) operate on the same frequency as the ones injected into animals? If so, could the robber(s) holding the recently stolen loot have them scanned at a vet's office or animal shelter?

I assume the tags are hard coded, but is it possible to "erase" the code by exposing the chip to a jolt of electricity, or a strong magnetic source?

Not that I have 1.5M - 2.5M in chips burning a hole in my backpack or anything....

Tagzpper (in Japanese) http://www.tagzapper.com/ will erase the chips. Some people are concerned about being surreptitionsly traced. Of course it wouldn't do you any good with casino chips as you don't want to erase them.

Even if you could write over them, how would you know what to write to keep them valid and untraceable?

Quote: pacomartin

Even if you could write over them, how would you know what to write to keep them valid and untraceable?

Read a current chip or two and clone them?

Quote: FleaStiff

Read a current chip or two and clone them?

Maybe, but if the chips have something like a unique ID instead of just broadcasting that they're legit that probably wouldn't work.

I guess it also depends on how vigilant the cashiers are at the cages. "Weird, these two chips have the same ID. Oh well", or "Weird. This chip RFID is blank. Oh well", etc.

Quote: ElectricDreams

Maybe, but if the chips have something like a unique ID instead of just broadcasting that they're legit that probably wouldn't work.

I guess it also depends on how vigilant the cashiers are at the cages. "Weird, these two chips have the same ID. Oh well", or "Weird. This chip RFID is blank. Oh well", etc.

I think a response like that by the cashiers would make them FORMER cashiers real quick....

SFB

"Weird, these two $25 chips have the same ID. Oh well", or "Weird. This $25 chip RFID is blank. Oh well"

That's very different than:

"Weird, these two $25,000 chips have the same ID. Oh well", or "Weird. This $25,000 chip RFID is blank. Oh well"

Quote: DJTeddyBear

"Weird, these two $25 chips have the same ID. Oh well", or "Weird. This $25 chip RFID is blank. Oh well"

That's very different than:

"Weird, these two $25,000 chips have the same ID. Oh well", or "Weird. This $25,000 chip RFID is blank. Oh well"

That is a very good point.

I retract my statement :-P

Quote: pacomartin

Tagzpper (in Japanese) http://www.tagzapper.com/ will erase the chips. Some people are concerned about being surreptitionsly traced. Of course it wouldn't do you any good with casino chips as you don't want to erase them.

Even if you could write over them, how would you know what to write to keep them valid and untraceable?

If the tag is erased, will the casino still honor them (assuming the erasure is detected)? What if you innocently walked past an MRI machine, or left them in your pocket while working at Yucca Mtn.?

Quote: Ayecarumba

If the tag is erased, will the casino still honor them (assuming the erasure is detected)? What if you innocently walked past an MRI machine, or left them in your pocket while working at Yucca Mtn.?

I bet they would still take them, just as soon as you told them the date and time you were playing there last when you received the chips....... ;-)

Quote: Ayecarumba

If the tag is erased, will the casino still honor them (assuming the erasure is detected)?

Like RaleighCraps, I suspect they would accept them if there was no reason to think you had obtained them improperly.

If they refused chips just because the RFID tag wasn't working properly, then it seems they would have be be able to demonstrate that non-working RFID-tagged chips had never been issued to customers/players in their casino. And able to show that the RFID tags could not fail unless deliberately tampered with. If they can't do that and won't accept the chips for full value, it starts to sound like a scam on the casino's part, and I think it would make an interesting court case or complaint to the NGC. Any thoughts on that?

Quote: Ayecarumba

Not that I have 1.5M - 2.5M in chips burning a hole in my backpack or anything....

Too bad. If you did, I might know something about RFID in casino chips.

As it is, we're depriving a defense lawyer or two a hefty fee for services ;)

From what I know about RFID, rather than the tag say something like "$25,000 chip, id number 123212"
it would say "1239594799345843294923" which would then be converted to a value using software at the cage. The numbers would be non-sequential so you couldn't guess the next chip by changing the last digit to a 4.

Also the number would be some sort of algorithm to verify its legit. Simple algorithm's might be add all the numbers up and they are divisible by 9 without a remainder, I am sure there is something similar on credit card numbers so when you enter it on a webpage the server knows if the number is valid before it even checks the number. Or the fourth number is always odd, or the 3 rd number is always the sum of the 1st and 2nd. The list goes on....

Even if you could read the number, it is of no use to you unless you have the database that goes with it. The chip in question may show up as a Great Dane from Ohio called Charlie, because each database is unique to the values assigned to it.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Also the number would be some sort of algorithm to verify its legit. Simple algorithm's might be add all the numbers up and they are divisible by 9 without a remainder, I am sure there is something similar on credit card numbers so when you enter it on a webpage the server knows if the number is valid before it even checks the number. Or the fourth number is always odd, or the 3 rd number is always the sum of the 1st and 2nd. The list goes on....

You're thinking of a check digit, although it's more for error detection than security.

Your right I am, couldn't remember the name. But the same principal can be applied here. Without knowing the exact combination, any pseudo created id's would have only a small chance of being correct, and raise more red flags.