Non-casino restaurants

When I lived in Vegas, I ate at the casinos a lot (of course), but I also tried many local non-casino restaurants. It seems like I never had a mediocre meal, let alone a bad one. The restaurant scene in Vegas seems like the bar has been raised, maybe because of all the cheap eats available in the casinos--especially the locals' casinos. A restaurant in Vegas has to be pretty damn good just to survive.

I was wondering if others who have had a chance to sample the local cuisine (as in: not in the casinos) would agree. Also: do you have a favorite LOCAL Vegas restaurant? (Mine is easy: Komol Kitchen. Best Thai food in the galaxy.)

In and Out Burger

Just as there is an entire world of Non-Mega-Casino gambling, so too is there a non-casino culinary world. Apparently people like to go unwind away from "the buzz" from time to time. I've not really understood how non-casinos can survive financially when casinos offer such bargains in price and atmosphere and location, but there does seem to be a whole world out there where you can park without greasing someone's palm, walk inside without feeling you've just hiked a million miles, get waited on promptly, etc.

It would be an interesting study to determine how many local regular casino-goers actually do go out to eat at non-casino restaurants for a change every once in a while. My guess would be, other than for lunch and maybe the occasional breakfast, not very many based on what I read on the vp forums. It's amazing to read how people have thousands of dollars in food comps stacked up and this and that casinos, and how they brag about "never having to pay for a meal". Of course that's laughable because probably every one of them loses regularly and some lose big, but I guess a "free meal" after getting pounded into the ground provides an escape for the player.

I've always liked Lotus of Siam, but I haven't been there in about a year.

Quote: FleaStiff

Just as there is an entire world of Non-Mega-Casino gambling, so too is there a non-casino culinary world. Apparently people like to go unwind away from "the buzz" from time to time. I've not really understood how non-casinos can survive financially when casinos offer such bargains in price and atmosphere and location, but there does seem to be a whole world out there where you can park without greasing someone's palm, walk inside without feeling you've just hiked a million miles, get waited on promptly, etc.

The non-casino restaurants have to compete with subsidized dining in the casinos. In addition it is hard to understand how the
non-casino hotels can compete against subsidized rooms.

The gaming abstract says that there were 43,208,075 rooms available in fiscal year 2009 in Clark County, which corresponds to about 118,378 physical rooms (dividing by 365). Judging from the numbers put out by the las Vegas Convention Center Association, that means there are 25K-30K rooms in the county that are not in a casino of some sort. These hotels have to survive without having casino money to subsidize the rooms.

Choice Hotels, Holiday Inn, Motel 6, Super 8, and some Marriots all have sizeable investments in the city usually without a casino.
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I've noticed that "all you can eat" buffet style restaurants are popular in Vegas to compete with the casinos.

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The food departments in the casinos in Clark County collectively had a profit of +8.0% in fiscal year 2009. That is before they give their complimentary food.
In 1990 the food departments lost 20% (on top of losing 20% they gave away another 20% in food comps).
It shows how dramatically food has gone from a major loss leader to a big part of the profit picture.

Quote: pacomartin

It shows how dramatically food has gone from a major loss leader to a big part of the profit picture.

Polo Towers is a resort without a casino and one that provides complete kitchen facilities, so it seems that some visitors to Las Vegas intend to avoid over-reliance on restaurant dining entirely.

I can't quite envision myself going to a grocery store while on vacation or going to a fast-food joint on a Vegas vacation either.

Just as some locals seem to brag that they never go to the strip, perhaps some locals never go to even non-strip casinos or casino-related restaurants.

There's a lot of non-gaming related restaurants in LV.
Sergio's on Tropicana near Spencer/Burnham is VERY fine.
Chinese and Thai rule big, and the last mini-WOV meeting was at the Hash House by Rainbow.

There are counless Sizzler's, IHOPs, Marie Calendar's, Putters, Village Pub's, etc.
Locals eat out big time, and often not at Casinos.
I will say the offerings at most casinos, especially the Bellagio, Winn, Red Rock, and other upscale casinos are tough to beat.
We locals often do hit the strip and downtown, even when not socializing with visiting family & friends, as they have a lot of offer.

I am surprised as to how infrenquently I eat at home: casino workers eat meals at the employee dining or mess halls, and eat comped meals from the casinos we play at.

Quote: FleaStiff

I can't quite envision myself going to a grocery store while on vacation or going to a fast-food joint on a Vegas vacation either.

Fast food? There are plenty on the Strip, as well as IN the casinos. Sometimes, 'fast' is the priority.

And grocery stores? I know where you're going, but consider that grocery stores offer a lot more than ingredients to make full meals. Although I didn't go grocery shopping on my trip last month, I DID get groceries last year. Stuff like bananas, apples, yogurt, granola bars, individual servings of Jello. These were all items I threw in my bag that I took to the convention with me, so I didn't have to purchase overpriced convention food, as well as afternoon snacks on my non-convention days.

This year and last, I brought an immersion heater, oatmeal, bowls and spoons, so I could have breakfast in my hotel room.

Again, it's all a matter of priorities.

>Fast food? There are plenty on the Strip, as well as IN the casinos. Sometimes, 'fast' is the priority.
Yes. I occasionally will do "the food court" option in a sort of "eat it and beat it" mode. Its rare for me, however. I will usually do a breakfast buffet and then gamble. Or do an afternoon lunch buffet, take a brief nap in the room and then head back to the tables. I would never trek to a Burger King or something since this would be, for me at least, too "anti-vacation".

>These were all items I threw in my bag that I took to the convention with me,
>so I didn't have to purchase overpriced convention food.
Excellent. Snacks for convenience and Rip-Off Avoidance sure makes sense to me!!
I hate it when they charge for the coffee at some event and particularly hate it when they charge a fortune for it!

>I brought an immersion heater, oatmeal, bowls and spoons, so I could have breakfast in my hotel room.
Good idea. First it sure is convenient and Second we all know that the breakfast buffets are probably their highest profit margins. Also if you "get your money's worth" at the buffet, its possible to feel too stuffed to think clearly at the tables. So zapping a bowl of water in the in-room microwave or carrying an immersion heater is sensible in many respects. I know one gambling couple to whom a great big pot of coffee right there in the room is obligatory and if the hotel doesn't offer it, they simply will not stay there! They are not going to go down to the lobby and bring up half a dozen cups of coffee. They are not going to stagger around the room trying to function without having had coffee.

Its certainly cheaper and easier and quicker to have a "light snack" in the room than to go to the coffee shop for a Breakfast Special of some sort. Even at Terribles, which lives up to its name, they offer a door knob hanger that shows the TIME you want your breakfast tray and offers you a checklist of their limited menu items. Fast, simple and sensible.

I sometimes take an intermediate option: The Venetian's breakfast buffet: One small room, a dozen or so of the most commonly desired items, fairly low price, no waiting.... and only 22 steps to the nearest craps table.

We all know that most rooms do not have coffee makers in them since for some reason major strip casinos want you to trek down to the lobby's Starbucks for your morning coffee and then stagger back up to the room. Why? Perhaps they think you will mistakenly stagger into the casino instead before being fully awake. Often that is what happens.

I assume that locals do more non-casino restaurants than vacationers. Locals probably are more familiar with non-casino restaurants.



>Again, it's all a matter of priorities.
Agreed.

Quote: FleaStiff

I know one gambling couple to whom a great big pot of coffee right there in the room is obligatory and if the hotel doesn't offer it, they simply will not stay there!

There ya go. Priorities!

I would have suggested instant coffee, if I thought of it. I don't even drink brewed coffee...

Quote: FleaStiff

The Venetian's breakfast buffet .... and only 22 steps to the nearest craps table.

LOL! I jokingly count steps from the edge of the plane to the first slot machine at McCarren, but you've taken it to a new level! :)

There is not a perceptible shortage of restaurants because of the casinos. Downtown strikes me as somewhat odd because there are not a lot of ethnic restaurants (presumably because they can't compete with the low prices of the casino buffets).

A lot of the casinos have a chain or in some cases have moved in a local restaurant. Downtown has Firefly (Spanish/California mix) and Tinoco's Kitchen which were free standing local places before moving into casinos.

There is a very large selection of ethnic Mexican, Thai, Chinese, Ethiopian, Indian, Phillipino and Southern food within a mile of the strip.

In the Western part of the city is a good selection of fine dining that is not attached to a casino. Andre's (french cuisine) was the nicest restaurant in the city, but they are only in the casinos now (Monte Carlo and The Palms).

About 2/3 of the movie screens in Vegas are attached to a casino. Most bowling is done in casinos now. Locals who do not go to the strip, frequent the buffets in the Station Casinos.

Todd's Unique , Nora's Cuisine , and Marche Bacchus are three of the best non-strip fine dining restaurants.

I think there are 38 McDonald's in Vegas, which seems to be about normal for a city of that size. There seems to be the usual demand for fast food.

I think you will find that there is a hardcore group of locals that belly up to a casino buffet or go to a casino coffee shop every single day, but they are still a minority.

Quote: Paigowdan

I am surprised as to how infrenquently I eat at home: casino workers eat meals at the employee dining or mess halls, and eat comped meals from the casinos we play at.

What I'm surprised at most is how the locals just don't get that they provide all that money necessary for the off-strip casino/hotels to maintain and grow. But on the vp forums it's quite a different story, and you'd think casino managers have learned to take it up the ying-yang big time. They all win, they're all compd nearly every meal, and life is so wonderful that nowhere else measures up.

I can't even visualize eating more meals in casinos than at home....that's sick, and I don't see the point of passing all the great eateries around LV by just to go to a casino restaurant. We all know that, by design, those who get comped meals are unable to go into a casino for a meal without gambling. We go out to eat once a week and it's a pretty special event for us. I can't begin to imagine what that's been minimalized into on the streets of LV.

Quote: JerryLogan

We all know that those who get comped meals are unable to go into a casino for a meal without gambling.

I'm not quite sure everyone is quite the degenerate gambler that I am.

A good many people go for a dinner in a casino. Perhaps each of them are using a matchplay coupon. The dinner, drinks and tips are a reasonable expenditure, the atmosphere is pleasing to them, the night may or may not have been financially rewarding but it was an enjoyable social event rather than a degenerate flea engaging in a desperate measure. Yes, they gambled. Though some don't even do that, but lets say that they did gamble this time and they did not do particularly well. It was still a pleasant experience.

Many people go to casinos but maintain a variety of friends and social endeavors without becoming degenerate gamblers milking the comp system.

I would hope for that type of scenario, but of the many locals I've met over the years and I'm close friends with a good amount, I don't know of any who don't fit the mold I mentioned. Lots of these people were met at parties away from casinos too. I wouldn't call them "degenerate" gamblers, just people who keep the local casinos' bills paid with a continuous little donation here and there.

One thing is for sure, strip or off-strip, LV casinos house some of the best if not the best, collection of restaurants anywhere.

Quote: JerryLogan

One thing is for sure, strip or off-strip, LV casinos house some of the best if not the best, collection of restaurants anywhere.

Yes. There may be limitations on space, funds, geographical markets, etc. but its simply too vital an issue to the casino. Even if its a sandwich and a bag of chips at a tiny little slot joint, they will try to do a good job because they know what happens to "the drop" when they don't do a good job.
I think that almost by definition a Locals Casino will get repetitive "little visits" from locals rather than trips by vacationers. Even the hotel marketing will favor Staycationers rather than actual vacationers.

Quote: FleaStiff

I'm not quite sure everyone is quite the degenerate gambler that I am.

A good many people go for a dinner in a casino. Perhaps each of them are using a matchplay coupon. The dinner, drinks and tips are a reasonable expenditure, the atmosphere is pleasing to them, the night may or may not have been financially rewarding but it was an enjoyable social event rather than a degenerate flea engaging in a desperate measure. Yes, they gambled. Though some don't even do that, but lets say that they did gamble this time and they did not do particularly well. It was still a pleasant experience.

Many people go to casinos but maintain a variety of friends and social endeavors without becoming degenerate gamblers milking the comp system.

Old Jerry has a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, negative view of Las Vegas locals. He says that they are ALL gambling-addicted degenerates. Every single one. Probably has something to do with whatever twisted him into the misanthropic curmudgeon that he is today.

In point of fact, when I lived in Vegas, I took the whole family out to eat about three times a week in various casinos. This was when comps were generous and the video poker was fullpay. If I played five-play quarters on a triple or quadruple point day, the next day, I had enough points available to take the whole family out to, not just the buffet, but to maybe the Italian or Mexican restaurant. Did I gamble when I went out to eat with the family? No. And I observed that many people, particularly older couples, were doing the same thing--going in, eating, then going right back out.

Of course, some people would stay and gamble, but many such people were planning to spend the evening gambling anyway--so why not grab a free or inexpensive meal at the casino? Many, many locals, then as now, learned how to "work the system"--to get freebies with minimal gambling losses/expenditures. The most savvy got comps for playing +EV games. If you knew then, or know now, the best days to play (point multipliers, promos), then you could (can) get back more in comps than you spent gambling. I actually posted a profit for eight years running (and paid hefty taxes on that profit), mostly due to mailed cashback that averaged between $1000 and $1500--my play on the games themselves showed a very modest profit. But the five of us went out to eat on the casino's dime twelve to fifteen times/month, and I never counted those meals as part of my profit, though I probably should have. If I want to feed the family, would it make more sense to run down to the grocery store, buy everything I need, cook it, serve it, clean up after it, and then do it all again the next day, or to load everybody in the car and go get a free meal in an excellent restaurant?

Quote: mkl654321

I actually posted a profit for eight years running (and paid hefty taxes on that profit), mostly due to mailed cashback that averaged between $1000 and $1500--my play on the games themselves showed a very modest profit ... and I never counted those meals as part of my profit, though I probably should have.

If you kept track of your gambling winnings and reported them as gross income (Kudos for doing that, by the way. The Service appreciates your continued compliance) you should have reported the meals as well. Comps are counted as income, and you gained the money you would have spent on that meal.

Did you ever get audited?

Quote: teddys

If you kept track of your gambling winnings and reported them as gross income (Kudos for doing that, by the way. The Service appreciates your continued compliance) you should have reported the meals as well. Comps are counted as income, and you gained the money you would have spent on that meal.

Did you ever get audited?

The issue is still very much up in the air. The main reason to report comps seems to be to establish one's stated profession as "professional gambler". This, in turn, allows a more liberal assigning of gambling losses to total income. I showed a profit all eight years from gambling (just straight profit-and-loss), and I never filed as "professional gambler" (I had other businesses), so that was never an issue.

As a strict interpretation, comps are supposed to be counted as "miscellaneous income" if you do not file as a professional gambler. Virtually nobody does that, however. I was never audited, and I would imagine that the reason for that is that the local IRS had its hands full going after people who never even filed at all, or who underreported. I also had investment gains that dwarfed my income from gambling; I was mostly a quarter and dollar VP player.

For the vast majority of gamblers, comps don't raise the bottom line into positive territory, so they aren't an issue. I've read of some court cases where the defendant argued that he would never have paid face value for a room or a meal that was comped, so he should only be taxed on the fair value to HIM. That's logical, and probably fair, which makes me think the court probably shot him down.

Oh yes, the anonymous mkl once again tells of his conquests over the casinos in "the good 'ol days" completely contradicting his mish-mash of nonsense about those type of days from a few weeks earlier.

If anyone's expecting him to dole out knowledge and truths about comps and winning all the time, you're simply under his spell of wordy BS that only his mother couldn't see through. No one here makes up stuff on the go as prolific as this clown does.

Quote: mkl654321

I actually posted a profit for eight years running (and paid hefty taxes on that profit)

LOL. Sure you did..

Quote: EvenBob

LOL. Sure you did..

Why, lol, do you, lol, find that, lol, so difficult, lol, to believe? Is it because you, lol, are a consistent loser, lol, and therefore in your mind, lol, no one else could possibly be a winner, lol?

Tell you what, bozo. I will post my tax returns for 1996-2003 on this site as pdf files. But I'll only do it if you put up $25 (low cost verification fee, indeed). If, by the judgment of the posters on this forum, those tax returns do NOT show a gambling profit for all of those years, I will pay YOU $250. Put your money where your idiot mouth is, or shut up.

And you aren't entitled to call me a liar, you moron. Lol.

Quote: mkl654321

Why, lol, do you, lol, find that, lol, so difficult, lol, to believe? Is it because you, lol, are a consistent loser, lol, and therefore in your mind, lol, no one else could possibly be a winner, lol?

Tell you what, bozo. I will post my tax returns for 1996-2003 on this site as pdf files. But I'll only do it if you put up $25 (low cost verification fee, indeed). If, by the judgment of the posters on this forum, those tax returns do NOT show a gambling profit for all of those years, I will pay YOU $250. Put your money where your idiot mouth is, or shut up.

And you aren't entitled to call me a liar, you moron. Lol.

LOL again. From my many years on forums, the only people who brag about how much money they win are the losers. The authentic big winners never talk about it. I'm sure you're the exception, however.

Quote: EvenBob

LOL again. From my many years on forums, the only people who brag about how much money they win are the losers. The authentic big winners never talk about it. I'm sure you're the exception, however.

El Stupido, I wasn't "bragging"--you'll notice, if you actually READ my posts, that I said I had very modest wins. And also, if you have the ability to read, my reason for mentioning that at all was in a discussion about income tax filing. I never won that much money, but I WAS slightly ahead for each of those eight years. Do I care whether an ignorant crapsack like you believes me? No!

Quote: mkl654321

I wasn't "bragging"-- I never won that much money

Oh, so when you said "(and paid hefty taxes on that profit)", the word 'hefty' has a different meaning in your world. You paid hefty taxes on not 'that much money'. Wow, the IRS must hate your guts, huh. Whatever..

LOL!

Quote: EvenBob

LOL again. From my many years on forums, the only people who brag about how much money they win are the losers. The authentic big winners never talk about it. I'm sure you're the exception, however.

So your not putting up the cash to win the bet he offers?

Quote: thecesspit

So your not putting up the cash to win the bet he offers?

Well, of course, the tax forms don't prove anything by themselves--I could have been losing all those years, but chosen to declare winnings instead just for the fun of paying taxes on that money that I didn't actually win.

Lol, as some people here are wont to say.

Quote: mkl654321

Well, of course, the tax forms don't prove anything by themselves--I could have been losing all those years, but chosen to declare winnings instead just for the fun of paying taxes on that money that I didn't actually win.

Lol, as some people here are wont to say.

Now the idiot's being exposed for what he really is--a liar who constantly tries to impress with BS. He said he'd show tax returns because he knows they prove zero and he can submit falsified re-do's from any past year.

Quote: JerryLogan

Now the idiot's being exposed for what he really is--a liar who constantly tries to impress with BS. He said he'd show tax returns because he knows they prove zero and he can submit falsified re-do's from any past year.

Tax forms prove zero, they can be faked all day long. Nobody can prove they win in the casino except by a live demo. Thats why bragging about it on a forum is always dumb.

Quote: EvenBob

Tax forms prove zero, they can be faked all day long. Nobody can prove they win in the casino except by a live demo. Thats why bragging about it on a forum is always dumb.

But you an't even prove they are losers....

LOL LOL LOL I went to this thread to post about my favorite restaurant- Makino, a sushi buffet, and I of course had to read mkl calling JL an idiot, JL calling mkl a liar....

Quote: SOOPOO

... and I of course had to read mkl calling JL an idiot, JL calling mkl a liar....

You can do that on any thread.