DesertXpress Rail

We've had an ongoing discussion about the DesertXpress which is building a 150 mph train to Victorville (the most extreme suburb of Los Angeles). The technology would be an off the shelf system made by Canadian Bombardier which is in use in Sweden (pictured above) and also in China for routes that don't rate the Chinese made 350 km/hr trainsets.

Many people naturally question the value of a train that stops almost 85 miles short of Anaheim stadium and the accompanying transit center. Anaheim stadium is often listed as the most useful place for the Southern California terminus of a train to Las Vegas, as a natural place to collect people (including Disneyland tourists).

Desertxpress is a fairly inexpensive at $4 billion for the entire 186 mile system. At $21.5 million per mile, it would cost the same on a per mile basis as most urban light rail systems. The maglev people are using a $12.5 billion dollar cost for their proposed train from Vegas to Anaheim with several intermediate stations. I suggested that that estimate might be low considering a proposed Japanese system is $50 billion for a shorter system.

Although the main proposal is for an extension of 50 miles to Palmdale, where it would intersect a planned California high Speed Rail line from LA to San Francisco, I did ask them if they would comment on extending the DesertXpress through Cajon pass to Anaheim. This was their response.

Reply to question from DesertXpress
Yes, of course it's not just possible to operate high speed rail trains like those of DesertXpress on a new trackway over the Cajon Pass, we have always believed that at some future date, public entities may decide to try and do so.

As you know, freight trains have been operating over the pass for roughly 100 years, with maximum grades of approximately 1.5%, and I-15 has a section with its steepest grades set at about 6%. We have designed DesertXpress for a maximum sustained grade of 4.5%, which would place new high speed rail tracks somewhere between the existing rail corridor and the existing highway corridor -- essentially all undeveloped land at this point in time.

The far greater challenge would be to find an affordable, acceptable alignment after the tracks traverse down the south side of the pass. With no available right of way in the greater L.A. Basin, the freeways already built out, and dozens, if not hundreds, of communities that likely would oppose the placement of an elevated high speed rail system within or adjacent to them, the time and cost required to make such a line a reality is incalculable.

Our analysis indicates that given the above challenges, when coupled with the global economic crisis and the limited funds available for high speed rail for the foreseeable future, federal, state and local government officials most likely will focus first upon completing the California High Speed Rail network throughout the state - to which DesertXpress can provide an interoperable connection in Palmdale. Such a connection would yield a highly attractive travel time from Los Angeles and Anaheim (roughly 2 hours and 20 minutes from Los Angeles). Nonetheless, DesertXpress will cooperate fully with any entity proposing to extend the system over Cajon Pass.

As to the estimated cost of the maglev project, we would refer you to an independent study of this question commissioned by the Southern California Logistics Railroad Authority that cites three recent public agency studies of high speed maglev that have been completed in the United States. Those studies pegged the cost of maglev construction (using the German developed technology as a base) in the range of $100 to $200 million per mile. This would bring the cost of that proposed 260-mile line to the range of $26 to $52 billion - fairly consistent with the Japanese estimate, and also consistent with the actual cost of the 19-mile maglev line to Shanghai Airport in China (when adjusted to reflect the cost of construction labor in the United States). The link to this study, posted on the DesertXpress web site, is : http://www.desertxpress.com/media/dxBSLReport.pdf.

I agree with Desertxpress on this one. The problems with many urban area is the understandable reticence of the communities to give up their space to serve other communities, especially when a high speed line is noisy (when operating) and unattractive. It's always an issue when creating infrastructure in urban areas. And politicians these days don't have the guts to push these through because of the votes that they will lose.

The surprising thing is that low speed maglev up to 60-70 mph might be the wave of the future. They are capable of 11% grade climbs, and the maglev makes no noise. See Mitsubishi's response to Hawaii's request for proposals for urban transport for a loop from Waikiki to the airport to Pearl Harbor.

But if you think about it, Los Angeles number one concern is getting people from the Inland Empire across the Santa Ana mountains every single day through a handful of traffic choked corridors (like 91). Any high speed train extending in towards Anaheim will first and foremost have to take care of this problem. Of secondary concern will be getting people to Las Vegas. The Maglev from Las Vegas with a stop in Ontario and in Anaheim will try and satisfy this need as well. But given the complexity of the task and the politics of construction inside the LA Basin, you can understand the concern of DesertXpress in proposing to handle that task.

Quote: pacomartin

We've had an ongoing discussion about the DesertXpress which is building a 150 mph train to Victorville (the most extreme suburb of Los Angeles). The technology would be an off the shelf system made by Canadian Bombardier which is in use in Sweden (pictured above) and also in China for routes that don't rate the Chinese made 350 km/hr trainsets.

Are the trains going to be built in Canada or China, where construction costs will be much lower? The pictures on the DesertXpress website look like the Chinese CRH1:

Quote: Chafford1

Are the trains going to be built in Canada or China, where construction costs will be much lower? The pictures on the DesertXpress website look like the Chinese CRH1:

Very observant of you. The Chinese CRH1 is a variant of the Regina train in Sweden. The company who designed this train is Bombardier in Canada. The technical specifications say 200 km/hr but the new versions go 250 km/hr (150 mph). Like most transit vehicles they are probably manufactured in several places around the world.

DesertXpress appear to have a rival, the 'X' train running from Los Angeles to Las Vegas 5 days a week and taking 5.5 hours for the journey:

Quote: Chafford1

DesertXpress appear to have a rival, the 'X' train running from Los Angeles to Las Vegas 5 days a week and taking 5.5 hours for the journey:

I'm surprised by this option, but that isn't really a rival. That's a very slow (less than 60 mph)relatively luxurious trip for a small number of people. It is probably going to be expensive. It sounds like it will be one train per day. If they move 100K people in a year I would be shocked.

DesertXpress has a goal of moving 5 million people each way in their first year of operation. I doubt they will get close to that number, but that is their stated goal.

In Mexico, they have platinum bus service which is 25 seats per bus. It is very middle or even upper middle class to take one of these buses.


I would like to see them introduce airship service, that will probably take three hours each way. It would be scenic, and possibly fun.

DesertXpress has completed their Environmental Impact Statement which allows them to look for final funding. It is posted on a government web site. They have disclosed that the Vegas terminal will be on Russel Road, near Mandalay Bay. The option of building a terminal near the Rio is "not preferred". Construction cost is in the neighborhood of $5 bilion.

Annual Ridership estimates for the $50 (100 minute) 180 mile one way trip are between 4,456,742 & 5,004,050 for the third year of operation.

Phase 2 of the Desertxpress is not discussed in much detail. Since there is only a regional commuter rail going from Union station to Palmdale, it presumably won't be built until the California High Speed Rail (CHSR) is completed. The CHSR is going to begin in a remote section in the middle of the state, and it is unclear when they will be building near Los Angleles or San Francisco.