Too Drunk to Gamble... Who Makes The Call?

I have seen lots of folks inebriated and gaming. Nevada has a regulation prohibiting gaming license holders from, "Permitting persons who are visibly intoxicated to participate in gaming activity". Who makes this call? Is there a standard test for sobriety in the operations manual?

I have never seen anyone barred, despite some folks looking like they would definitely fail a simple, "walk a straight line", or "touch your nose" test. One would think the dealers should be on the hook for this, since they "control" the game.

There have been some fairly high profile, big bankroll individuals who welched on markers claiming that they were too wasted at the time, and should not have been allowed to gamble.

Barkley paid the Wynn's marker before the case went to court.
Are you referring to some other incident?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/topstories/2008-05-15-1363912210_x.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/20/sports/basketball/20barkley.html


As far as drunken clients go, as long as you can stand or sit and not fall asleep, they will take your money.
I've seen people about to pass out still playing with no problem.

We've all seen folks staggering around the casino, but has anyone actually seen a player refused action due to intoxication? If so, who decided that the player was too intoxicated?

My wife wasn't allowed to enter a casino once because she was too intoxicated...

I've seen a LOT of players "cut off" from the cocktails...but I've yet to see someone refused a bet because they were too drunk...
Believe me, I've gotten absolutely BLITZED and still was let play dice, LOL.

Quote: FinsRule

My wife wasn't allowed to enter a casino once because she was too intoxicated...

Who barred her? Was it a manager or a security guard? Did they perform any tests to verify that she was too intoxicated?

Quote: TIMSPEED

I've seen a LOT of players "cut off" from the cocktails...but I've yet to see someone refused a bet because they were too drunk...
Believe me, I've gotten absolutely BLITZED and still was let play dice, LOL.

I gamble this way almost exclusively. lol

The only place I was not allowed access due to intoxication was a strip club that is no longer around in downtown Cleveland, Ohio, but the good news is I don't remember it happening.

I have stopped many players from playing, due to the fact that they were beyond intoxicated. I have a player that gets this way 99% of the time they come in. I was once saw this player pick up someone else's hand on 3CP and make a bet. lol. This player is use to me saying NO MORE..they jsut look at me and say "no more...okay", and they stumble away. I usally give the player all the chances in the world, but when you throw up on my tables, pass out in mid hand, forget you are playing and leave the game in mid hand...it becomes my job to say NO MORE. And yes all the above have happened in my PIT several times.

Yes, it is the dealers job to be aware of what is going on at their game. With that said, if you had a drunk betting Black for you and the same for him...would you say something to your floor? some do some don't (if the floor isn't watching a game where the player is toking black....well, they need a new floor).

I had a gal get asked to leave at the Black Jack table I was playing at. She drank to much on the tour bus in and could hardly stay on the chair. She was very annoying and loud. They allowed a friend to take her to the restraunt. It was either that or go sit on the bus. This was at Presque Isle in Pa. and the pit made the call.

There is a legal definition for being drunk as far as driving is concerned. It may vary by state, but it's a blood alcohol level of X (ofte .09 or so if memory serves), which can be accurately measured by a breathalyzer test. At that point you're too drunk to drive, and if you do so you can be detained.

What would be the level for being too drunk to gamble?

BTW the legal definition is a bit arbitrary, as it relies on an average. Some people are impaired with lower levels, some are not impaired with higher levels. In this case, though, I'm for erring on the side of caution.

Now, even if a level can be established, should casinos test any gambler who appears to be intoxicated? As in the driving case, there would be an average, except as far as gambling goes a drunk gambler won't risk the life of anyone by betting stupidly at the tables. So a blood alcohol test ought to be paired with some kind of sobriety test. And that's just too complicated.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Who barred her? Was it a manager or a security guard? Did they perform any tests to verify that she was too intoxicated?

Security Guard wouldn't let her in.

They asked for her ID to verify she was 21, and she showed them her credit card. That was the test :). She hates when I tell people that story. The whole story is pretty funny though. She started crying. It was at the President in St. Louis. If anyone knows that area, it was not good that they just sent her walking around the river.

She was at a bar in the area, and thought I was at the President. So she went looking for me. I was at the bar looking for her. Good times...

If you are too drunk to tip, out you go. LOL

Seems pretty self-regulating.

If a player is too hammered to put money into a slot, or to handle chips at a table: that's it.

Otherwise, then play on ...

Quote: MrV

If a player is too hammered to put money into a slot, or to handle chips at a table: that's it.

Otherwise, then play on ...

I personally witnessed a player at a BJ table at IP so drunk he was nodding off and barely able to play. He was a blackchip player with about 6K in black and green in front of him, barely able to slide chips into the circle. He was heads-up, and winning, and a crowd had gathered to watch this drunken guy, along with a couple pitbosses hovering closely. We were all wondering "He's winning, but damn he's drunk! How long will IP let this continue?". Dealer kept giving quizzicle glances to boss as if asking, "should I keep dealing?". I watched 10 minutes, and floor never put a stop to it, but actually helped the guy slide chips back and forth. I left disgusted.

Quote: FinsRule

She hates when I tell people that story.

Therefore, Posting on the Internet is the right thing to do.
Lol

Quote: zippyboy

I watched 10 minutes, and floor never put a stop to it, but actually helped the guy slide chips back and forth. I left disgusted.

Over the years I've seen dozens of examples of this.
And Dan wonders why we call the casino the DarkSide.
They'll take money form anybody in any kind of condition.
But Dan wants us to treat the casino differently than
they treat us. Whatever, Dan.

"There is a legal definition for being drunk as far as driving is concerned. It may vary by state, but it's a blood alcohol level of X (ofte .09 or so if memory serves), which can be accurately measured by a breathalyzer test. At that point you're too drunk to drive, and if you do so you can be detained."

You are close to it. The legal BAC in most states is.08. These test rarely get it wrong, it doesn't matter if you weigh 100 or 300 pounds, alcohol goes straight to the blood stream without beign broke down. As far as not driving, you have to be carefull, alot of states have public intoxication laws, which make it illegal to be ANYWHERE. YES, that part is true. I have seen people get arrested for being in thier own yard and drunk. Of course, you catch the wrong cop on the wrong day anything can happen.

As far as casino responsibility or a bartender in a normal bar....if such said drunk person were to get in an accident, the bartender and other staff can be held liable in court. There are many cases out there where the person the drunk hurt have come after casinos and bars. I know of a dealer who had to go to court over this exact situation. They come after the Gaming license and Liquor license of the casino or bar.

In Iowa, they seems to be very strict at letting people in when they are intoxicated. I was at a wedding reception at Harrah's, went to gamble some, went back to the wedding reception to grab my girlfriend, and was denied entrance back into the Casino. I had probably only had 3 or 4 beers. The security guard asked me if I had consumed any alcoholic beverages. I told him I have had 3 or 4 beers within the last couple of hours, and he told me Iowa law permits anyone who shows signs of intoxication from entering the casino floor.

What this tells me is that if you get drunk while gambling, you are in the clear as far as Iowa law is concerned. However, if you try to enter the casino after you have been drinking, it may be a different story...

First time in LV staying at the Golden Nug playing Craps (back when they still had the good GN odds). Started at 1AM. By 4 I have a decent stack of black chips. Good tipping means beers a plenty. Around that time I actually fall over. Beers keep coming. Stack getting smaller. Cell phone rings future wife's asks where I am it's 8am.

Only time I got cut off was about 6 years ago at the El Cortez. Was only on my third beer but hadn't slept in 22 hours.

If you want to gamble drunk and or dance on the gaming tables, then Caesar's Palace, Las Vegas is the place for you.

Remember the curious case of Terrance Watanabe verses Caesars and it's incompetant surveillance staff? The story is that Mr. Watanabe supposedly lost around 200 million, often drunk to the point that he was laying on the table, all the while, surveillance and management chose to look the other way. Supposedly they even helped him fill his hydrocodone scripts as well, or so goes the story.

Apparently, Steven Wynn recognized that Mr. Watanabe had a serious problem with drinking and gambling, and cut him off after he lost a couple of million. However, Caesars welcomed him with open arms. It's truly a disgusting story. I'll see if I can post the transcripts from the hearing on here if anyone would like read them.


Here's some info from Wiki regarding Terrance Watanabe:

HistoryThe company was founded as a gift shop in 1932 in Omaha, Nebraska, by Harry Watanabe. The company expanded to 17 shops in the Midwest. During World War II, with restrictions against imports from Japan, the company shrank back to its Omaha base. Watanabe then bought a ceramic shop which made Kewpie dolls and other ceramic items.[2] Please note: This link results in an "Access Denied" page.

In 1954 it resumed its imports from Japan and was a major carnival supplier. In 1956 it launched its first catalog.

In 1977 Watanabe's son Terry Watanabe became president and its focus shifted from carnivals to supplying party goods for churches, schools, retailers, and individuals.

In 2000, Watanabe sold his entire stake in the company to Los Angeles-based private equity firm Brentwood Associates, and resigned as CEO and President. [3] Watanabe is alleged to have had alcohol and gambling problems resulting in losing US$204 million to the Rio and Caesars Palace casinos in Las Vegas in 2007. [4] Harrah's, which owns the two casinos, derived 5.6% of its revenues that year from Watanabe. He has paid $112 million but refused to pay the rest prompting Harrah's to file criminal charges against Watanabe. [5] On July 8, 2010, a global settlement was reached between Harrah's Entertainment and Watanabe resulting in a dismissal of both the civil and criminal cases.[6]

In 2002 Brentwood Associates entered into an agreement to expand the company.

In 2006 Carlyle Group bought 68 percent interest in the company with Brentwood owning a reported 25 percent.[1]

On August 24, 2010, Oriental Trading Company via OTC Holdings Corp. in case 10-12636 declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in Delaware saying in its filing papers that it had $463 million in assets at April 3, 2010 and $756.6 million in liabililities with net sales of $485.4 million. It reported it was sending out 300 million catalogs a year and generates half its sales online.[7]" cont'd at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_Trading_Company

Entry into a casino is one thing. The casino gets better mileage out of stopping someone from entering. Also, if they are walking in with a supersized bottle of cheap beer the casino probably feels they might as well nix that.

Once inside, its up to the server to follow the rules about serving alcohol and its well known that the tips are good when the necklines are low, the hour is late and gambler is thinking of the waitress when he should be thinking of how to even get off that chair without falling flat on his face.

CWs and sometimes dealers have 86'd people from the booze. Usually the Pit and Floor have found out who the guy is and where he is staying. Casinos mostly don't turn a guy off from the gambling though until it reaches a point where they know security is going to have to get the guy a wheel chair to get him away the table.

I have seen the Pit cut off players from any more drinks, but never from the table action. I have told this story here before, but at Paris one night a young guy was trying to play craps, and he was hammered. The fact that he really didn't know much about the game didn't help. Naturally, he was winning. Why doesn't the law of natural selection apply to gambling tables? Anyway, his buddy is with him and is trying to convince him to leave, since he is up a few hundred, but it's not happening. Finally, I watch as his buddy pinches a black chip from the rack, and drops it in his pocket. A few minutes later, he does it again.
The player is so drunk he has no idea. About the 4th time, the box sees the guy do it, and starts to say something to the player. The buddy realizes he's been busted and says, "He'll thank me when he sobers up tomorrow and I can hand him a few hundred back". The box mulls it over for a few seconds and then said, "You make sure he gets it all back".
All told I think his buddy managed to pinch about $600, which was more than he had bought in with. I always wondered how good of a buddy he was, and if the player got any or all of the money back. I always thought the box had handled that pretty well, but now as this thread has me thinking about it, what choice did he really have?

If he does nothing, the player will keep playing, and he is bound to lose it all (he did manage to lose what he had in front of him, and two more <$100 buy ins.
If he rats out the buddy, he risks have a scene with a loud drunk, and security will most likely escort them out.
If he cuts them off, the player may get mad and start a scene. (I will assume the box has no vested interest in wanting the house to win all the money)
If he calls security to handle it, who knows how it will all go down. I suppose the buddy could get in some real trouble.
I suppose he could have demanded the buddy put the chip back on the table, and call surveillance to see how much he took. But again, that could have gone badly, and I am sure the buddy would have dragged the player away at that point.

So, while I thought he had made a good decision at the time on the way he handled it, I now realize I don't think he really had any other option.

I'm curious if any of the casino personnel on this board have seen similar situations, and if so, how were they handled? I have to believe this happens fairly often.

A few comments.

I don't think a casino should have breathlyzers and stop gamblers from gambling when their BAC is over the legal limit for driving. The line could and should be higher.

My wife got cut off once, and she was really mad at the time. The whole ride home, it was, "I've been in much better places than this s***box casino, and I've never been cut off, and listed a bunch of well known bars in Vegas, San Francisco, LA and such).

I will say this, you know, probably a safe place for a person who is drunk to be is at a table or slot machine, being watched. Certainly there is a point where someone is making poor decisions. I think it is at this point where a person should be cut off from drinking. For example, if they are slowing down a game or making very poor bets, it's time to cut them off. Here, in Canada, I've seen people get cut off all of the time. What usually happens is that they get refused service first, and then they get rude. Once they get rude, security comes in (usually three big dudes) and takes the person away, willingly.

They probably take care of the person by making sure s/he has a way home and is not driving.

Quote: boymimbo

I will say this, you know, probably a safe place for a person who is drunk to be is at a table or slot machine, being watched. Certainly there is a point where someone is making poor decisions. I think it is at this point where a person should be cut off from drinking.

Poor decisions? You'd have to refuse alcohol to anyone making the fire bet, the pair+ bet, the lucky ladies bet, or for that matter playing slots ;) Well, at least by the standards prevalent on this board, right?

The thing is that determining when a player is too drunk to play responsibly is difficult. For example, given my bankroll and habits, it woudl be irresponsible for me to play a slot machine in the high-limit room. But routinely poeple with bigger bankrolls and different habits do just that, responsibly.

Quote: Triplell

In Iowa, they seems to be very strict at letting people in when they are intoxicated. I was at a wedding reception at Harrah's, went to gamble some, went back to the wedding reception to grab my girlfriend, and was denied entrance back into the Casino. I had probably only had 3 or 4 beers. The security guard asked me if I had consumed any alcoholic beverages. I told him I have had 3 or 4 beers within the last couple of hours, and he told me Iowa law permits anyone who shows signs of intoxication from entering the casino floor.

What this tells me is that if you get drunk while gambling, you are in the clear as far as Iowa law is concerned. However, if you try to enter the casino after you have been drinking, it may be a different story...

It depends on the property, but yes it can be very strict in Iowa. And I've seen NUMUROUS people get kicked off a live game for being drunk. But being intoxicated while driving I think is a lot different than intoxicated in a casino. While driving it's simply your reaction time is slowed down causing accidents, but playing BJ your judgment may not necessarily be impaired the same way. Reaction time doesn't really matter.

drinking while driving implies an obligation of the state to protect others from the actions and consequences of a citizen's intoxication.
i dont think the state has the same level of obligation to protect an intoxicated person from himself in a casino setting.

I wish you had been on my cousin's jury when he was found guilty of rolling a drunk. LOL

Three years ago this month a sailor from the sub base left Mohegan Sun allegedly drunk. He drove the wrong way on the highway and hit a van carrying Connecticut college students killing one of them. The tribe said they would review their alcohol policies. Can you say sovereign nation???

Quote: WongBo

i dont think the state has the same level of obligation to protect an intoxicated person from himself in a casino setting.

Why not?

The state protects people from themself when they create laws regarding suicide and prostitution.

someone has to clean up the suicide, and the prostitution involves another person as well...
not really the same thing

One of the worst (best?) cases is my son on one of his first trips to Vegas after turing 21 a few years ago was so drunk he said the slot attendent put his money in the machine for him because he couldnt hold it straight enough. All the blame goes to him for losing and it was a lesson learned.

Quote: Triplell

In Iowa, they seems to be very strict at letting people in when they are intoxicated. I was at a wedding reception at Harrah's, went to gamble some, went back to the wedding reception to grab my girlfriend, and was denied entrance back into the Casino. I had probably only had 3 or 4 beers. The security guard asked me if I had consumed any alcoholic beverages. I told him I have had 3 or 4 beers within the last couple of hours, and he told me Iowa law permits anyone who shows signs of intoxication from entering the casino floor.

What this tells me is that if you get drunk while gambling, you are in the clear as far as Iowa law is concerned. However, if you try to enter the casino after you have been drinking, it may be a different story...

I had the same experience at a casino in the Quad Cities (I think it was Davenport, not sure). I was super drunk from a wedding reception and decided I wanted to walk around the casino floor. This was back before I knew how to play ANYTHING in a casino, so I'm not sure what my plan was. Anyway, the security guard checking IDs said I couldn't come in, but that since I was on casino property, they weren't allowed to just let me walk away either, I had to wait for a shuttle back to my hotel, which I could see from the casino entrance! Hence I was trapped there until the shuttle came (about 15 minutes), couldn't go inside, couldn't leave.

Quote: 1BB

Three years ago this month a sailor from the sub base left Mohegan Sun allegedly drunk. He drove the wrong way on the highway and hit a van carrying Connecticut college students killing one of them. The tribe said they would review their alcohol policies. Can you say sovereign nation???

Oh, please.

Sue them in their own tribal court.

I'm sure they'll be fair and impartial.

sovereign