Questions - Blackjack basic strategy chart, after 1st day at casino

I thought spliting gives you 2 hands from the pair, same rules apply to the new 2 hands. But with aces the dealer will hit the hands only 1 time. Why, and why with this rule does the basic strategy chart say for pairs to split aces?

With hard hands from 12-16 and the dealer shows above 6, the basic strategy chart says to hit. Most of the time the hits caused a bust. Looking at what the dealer ended up with, the hit was correct, standing would have lost and a hit with a low card would have won. If I got an occasional 12-16 hand I wouldn't given it much thought, but the 12-16 hand with a high card hit was frequent. Help?

I know the basic strategy chart isn't supposed to be effected by the number of other hands being played at a table. But what about for each of the hands being played, the ones that are standing too early or continue until they bust. When it becomes the dealer's turn, the dealer either has the cards that should have been present or absent from the shoe. I heard players say they won because someone had sacrificed their hand causing the dealer to lose. The players I'm talking about that are standing too early or continue until they bust are people on vacation, others that believe enough alcohol = party in their mind, or someone with a girfriend next to them that they're trying to impress. I noticed they're not watching their bank and will continue to sit until they're wiped out. The table may have one other player that's paying attention and 4-5 that don't playing over a hour. So with this table scenario and the dealer having the cards that should have been present or absent from the shoe, does this effect the strategy chart or cause a bias to adjust the chart or how it should be used?

I'm a beginner and what I have for a bank should be bet at the table minimum. When I start to play I request all table minimum value chips and move some of the chips from the bank stack into a play stack. When the play stack has accumulated, the winnings that went into the play stack move back into the original bank until it's kept at the same amount when I started. When the the bank has reached it's original amount, playing is done only from the play stack and the play stack has accumulated, is there a guide on when to and how to increase bets?

Quote: joe

I thought spliting gives you 2 hands from the pair, same rules apply to the new 2 hands. But with aces the dealer will hit the hands only 1 time. Why, and why with this rule does the basic strategy chart say for pairs to split aces?

Because ace is 11 points. If you had a two-card hand totaling 11, you would have doubled it, and only get one card, because 11 is such a great hand, you are statistically expected to win by hitting it once.
12 or 2 (that you would have if you did not split) is a pretty lousy hand on the other hand. You don't want it.

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With hard hands from 12-16 and the dealer shows above 6, the basic strategy chart says to hit. Most of the time the hits caused a bust. Looking at what the dealer ended up with, the hit was correct, standing would have lost and a hit with a low card would have won. If I got an occasional 12-16 hand I wouldn't given it much thought, but the 12-16 hand with a high card hit was frequent. Help?

Well, not much you can do about it, except for getting used to. You lose more often than you win. That's how casino makes money.

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I know the basic strategy chart isn't supposed to be effected by the number of other hands being played at a table. But what about for each of the hands being played, the ones that are standing too early or continue until they bust. When it becomes the dealer's turn, the dealer either has the cards that should have been present or absent from the shoe. I heard players say they won because someone had sacrificed their hand causing the dealer to lose.

The order of cards in the shoe is random. Suppose, the dealer has 12, and you have 15, and decide to stand, and the dealer hits, and the next card is 6, followed by a 10. If you hit instead of standing, you would end up having 21, and the dealer would bust. But if the cards were in different order, then you would have busted, and the dealer would have 18.
What you do with your hand does not matter for the rest of the players, because the cards in the shoe are in random order. Sometimes your standing on your 15 will help the dealer, sometimes it will hurt him, but overall, those occurrences will cancel each other out.

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So with this table scenario and the dealer having the cards that should have been present or absent from the shoe, does this effect the strategy chart or cause a bias to adjust the chart or how it should be used?

Nope. Does not matter.

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is there a guide on when to and how to increase bets?

Unless you are counting, it does not matter. Increase your bets when you feel lucky, decrease when you don't :)

For any given situation, the basic strategy table tells you which option is going to win the most, or lose the least, over the long haul.

With respect to splitting aces: It is just a standard rule of blackjack that you will only receive one card on each hand when splitting aces. Also, if you split aces and get a ten or face card, it counts only as 21, not blackjack (i.e. not an automatic winner and does not pay extra). If you split aces and get another ace, some games allow you to resplit while others do not.

Basically, the strategy chart tells you to always split aces because two hands of A-X are much stronger than a single hand of soft-12. Many times you'll get tens or face cards to make at least one 21. And even the crappiest card still leaves you with a soft hand to hit, much like the soft-12 that you would've started with. Plus its a man law: Always split aces and 8s.

Yes, it is common to have a hand of 12-16 against a dealer high card. It happens about 1 in 4 hands on average, and it seems a lot more frequent than that because it is so painful. I've got friends who agonize over the decision every time they get it. "If I hit I'll probably bust, but if I stand I'm gonna lose anyway. Woe is me!" Here the basic strategy table is very liberating. Don't even have to think about it: you always hit a 12-16 against a dealer's 7 or above. Yep, you're still gonna lose more often than you win, but you'll lose less in the long run by always taking a card.

Note that in some circumstances, its pretty much the same either way. 16 against a dealers 10 or face card is a really lousy situation, and the statistical results are almost exactly the same whether you hit or stand. Counters might choose to play one way or the other based on the cards which they've already seen played from the shoe, or are currently on the table, or are currently in their hand. You could choose to play your gut, and see if you can get lucky. Or you could just hit it every time like the card says, because this will win one time in a thousand more often than it loses (or something like that).

The way other players at the table play their hand will definitely affect the outcome of your hand on any particular occasion. But over the long haul, it doesn't matter at all. For every time they take or pass on a card which causes the dealer to win, there will be a time when their decision causes the dealer to lose. But there are a lot of veteran players that cannot grasp this concept, and they'll get really angry with a novice who doesn't play the way they think they should, especially if that player is sitting at third base, right before the dealer. If you're uncomfortable with basic strategy, I advice you to avoid the 3rd base position.

I'll let others comment on your money management strategy. Most of the members of this board ridicule systems which raise and lower bets based on previous results. No system can overcome the house edge. But they generally don't acknowledge the opposite: no system increases the house edge, either.

Hitting on 16 is optimal but standing on 16 ain't all that much worse. Its a bad hand. That is why you always split 8s. Unsplit 8s are the worst hand you can have, so you might as well split them and take your chances. You know if you have 16 the dealer will wind up with more than 16. He may bust but he will have more than 16. If you are upset about having 16 you can stand on it and only be a few smidgens worse off than hitting it.

I wasn't talking about betting systems that change the bet amount per play or for a few bets. I initially banked for a continuous bet of $5 per hand to be able to play for a while. I wanted to slightly increase the original $5 for each hand by $2 or $3 to play over a period of time, then increase it with a small amount again.

The hands I was getting to get to the 12-16 hands weren't caused by not splitting. The initial hand would start off with something like 10,5 or 8,5.

Quote: PapaChubby

...way other players at the table play their hand will definitely affect the outcome of your hand on any particular occasion.....every time they take or pass on a card which causes the dealer to win, there will be a time when their decision causes the dealer to lose....

Last night when I was playing the first player on first box was playing very badly and on one occasion decided to split (yes split) 5s vs 6. Instead of the dealer getting 21 he bust!

So whatever your feelings, the other person has the right to be utterly stupid, hit 14 vs 6 and take your ten on your double. Sadly the reality of life is you notice the times it goes wrong more than the ones it goes right (especially the UK version where the dealer has yet to get their second card). My philosophy is if there's a stupid player around, unless you're having an enjoyable/profitable game, get out of there; find another table or come back another later.

Finally to re-confirm, the basic strategy says given the cards that you have and the dealer, what in the long run, is the best play that will either win you the most or lose you the least money. On any particular occurrence it is quite possible that playing wrong would have given a better result - but unless you're tracking cards, counting or something else naughty - sticking to the strategy will make your money last longer. There is one exception and that is if you're towards the end of your bank roll you may decide to double (e.g. in the UK 11 vs 10, 9 vs 2, 9 vs 7) instead of being left with just one bet if you lose.

Quote: charliepatrick

So whatever your feelings, the other person has the right to be utterly stupid, hit 14 vs 6 and take your ten on your double. Sadly the reality of life is you notice the times it goes wrong more than the ones it goes right (especially the UK version where the dealer has yet to get their second card). My philosophy is if there's a stupid player around, unless you're having an enjoyable/profitable game, get out of there; find another table or come back another later.

Statistically speaking, as mentioned before, it doesn't matter if a stupid player is making bad plays. Statistically, it will have no bearing on the final outcome, in the long run. Statistically, you shouldn't care what other players are doing; just play your hand correctly, and the house edge not change for you.

NOW... I agree with you completely on this point. I KNOW IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE, but if you feel better about how people are playing, you will be happier. While your attitude has no bearing on the cards, you are less likely to be frustrated and make mistakes out of anger. I have found playing at a table of basic strategy players is awesome, win or lose. Nobody gets too upset or shocked when the dealer pulls good cards, everybody is relatively reserved on winning streaks. It's a better feeling, which makes for better gambling.

And before everybody chimes in on how statistically it makes no difference, read the first four sentences again!!

Quote: joe

But what about for each of the hands being played, the ones that are standing too early or continue until they bust.

No effect.

Quote: PapaChubby

Note that in some circumstances, its pretty much the same either way. 16 against a dealers 10 or face card is a really lousy situation, and the statistical results are almost exactly the same whether you hit or stand.
Or you could just hit it every time like the card says, because this will win one time in a thousand more often than it loses (or something like that).

Actually - this is an inaccuracy stemming from how basic strategy is calculated - the ever-so-slightly better play, if you are playing a game with LS (late surrender), is to stand on 16v10.

If you have the option of surrender, you'll surrender any two-card hand of 16v10, the best play by far, and any three-card hand falls under the CDE that you stand there, the only CDE applying from 1-deck to 8-deck games throughout.
As for split hands, the only way you get two-card 16 on a split against 10 is if you were splitting 8s and got another 8, which you can usually resplit, so that would be exceedingly rare; that exceptional case aside, you stand.