AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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October 16th, 2022 at 8:07:26 PM permalink
In another thread DRich wrote:

Quote: DRich

When I was playing high denom video poker and hitting royals for $50k people were always asking what are you going to do with all that money. I would always make something up about taking a big vacation but the truth was I was going to put it right back in the machines.
link to original post



These questions are for any and all members who care to reply.

I'm sure no one would intend to mean they would play it all back.

So would you use the money won to keep playing and hopefully to generate more wins?

Would you continue at the same denomination or play lower or higher?

Would you force yourself to save a certain percentage as a prize of accomplishment or is it all available to be at risk again?

Would you quit for the day or the trip or do do you believe all gambling is one continuous session and any pause is of no consequence?

Do you put aside anything for the tax consequences even the increase in AGI if you end the year with no taxable gain?

Just curious about the style of players here.

Thanks.
AxelWolf
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October 16th, 2022 at 10:21:00 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

In another thread DRich wrote:

Quote: DRich

When I was playing high denom video poker and hitting royals for $50k people were always asking what are you going to do with all that money. I would always make something up about taking a big vacation but the truth was I was going to put it right back in the machines.
link to original post



These questions are for any and all members who care to reply.

I'm sure no one would intend to mean they would play it all back.

So would you use the money won to keep playing and hopefully to generate more wins?

Would you continue at the same denomination or play lower or higher?

Would you force yourself to save a certain percentage as a prize of accomplishment or is it all available to be at risk again?

Would you quit for the day or the trip or do do you believe all gambling is one continuous session and any pause is of no consequence?

Do you put aside anything for the tax consequences even the increase in AGI if you end the year with no taxable gain?

Just curious about the style of players here.

Thanks.
link to original post

Obviously Drich meant the money is just getting added back to his bankroll to continue playing his +EV situation.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Talldude90
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rainman
October 16th, 2022 at 10:42:40 PM permalink
Personally, gambling money is gambling money, I am not playing to win, I am playing for comps, 50k sounds like a nice buffer for a good long while. Until I have the bankroll to play a $5 per coin +EV VP with a <=1% chance RoR, then what does a 50k win matter (not to mention the 20K or so going to taxes unless your accounting is spot on and you have enough losses to cover it THAT calendar year). This could all change if I were to say find a play no one else knows and make bank, but until that happens I choose to live in the present.

For a 50k VP win, assuming the payoff is 4000 credits that would be $12.5 per credit (or $62.5 per betting unit (5 coins))

For example, for bankroll calculations for VP, that 30k would only support a 50 Cent Full Pay Duces wild bankroll. Or a 5 Cent 9/6 JoB with 0.5% cash back ( WoO post here ). So, if you are serious about long term gambling, then yes 100% you keep it in the game. In this case you would continue at the same denom unless you won enough to move up to the next denom while maintaining an acceptable RoR. But as the Bankroll for full pay duces for $12.5/coin is $440,562.50 for FPDW (1% RoR) then 50k really is nothing to make much of a fuss over.

All that said, if I won 30k (after tax) I don't reside near any casinos that offer those opportunities with VP. My nearest has $5/coin ($25/unit) NSUD which would yield $176,225.00 required bankroll (for infinite play if you dont take tax's into account and would have to be only played on 5x TC days which don't happen often).

All that to say: 50k is nothing when it comes to VP if you are trying to play it only when positive. If you are not then your RoR is 100% and if making a profit is your goal then don't play it ;).

Now, other advantage play, I'll leave to other people.
JackSpade
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October 16th, 2022 at 11:26:08 PM permalink
I'm going to invest my recent $16,000 jackpot into a small cap international stock market index. I believe now is a generational opportunity to buy foreign assets at a deep discount.

The U.S. dollar is extremely overvalued. Now is the time to take advantage of its relative strength versus foreign currencies and hard assets. I also like gold and silver mining stocks for a trade (though not recommended for a long-term hold).
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
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October 16th, 2022 at 11:32:29 PM permalink
Since VP is a loser game until you hit a Royal, I'd put the $16K into a different game like Craps, Black Jack, or Baccarat. Give each game a $5K bankroll and see how far you can get with $500 sessions.
JackSpade
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October 17th, 2022 at 12:11:37 AM permalink
When interest rates were near zero and equity markets near a peak, there was more of an incentive to invest in gambling exploits where you might have a slight advantage or be able to generate enough comps to create an advantage.

I won $650 playing poker today, but I don't think I'm good enough to be a long-term winner at it -- at least not versus competent players. Of course, it's sometimes possible to find tables with drunks, maniacs, and incompetents where I would have a nice advantage. But I don't intend to move up in stakes above 2/5.

For table games, I think there are better opportunities in Ultimate Texas Holdem than craps or baccarat. Blackjack play would probably be a good skill to develop, but I haven't even mastered basic strategy and don't find the game particularly exciting. Trying to hit 21 over and over again is a bore compared to going for big poker hands like four aces or a royal flush.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
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October 17th, 2022 at 12:57:07 AM permalink
I started this 3X Raise Hold'em Game on the Wizard's site for the first time because of the above post. The game starts me out at $1,000. I was betting $20 on the ante and $10 on the Final Hand side-bet. I haven't read the rules to the game or what was written above the game so I don't know how to play it. I was just hitting the Advice Button for many plays and it seems I don't fold nearly as often as I would expect, and the dealer even folds.
I had some swings but thought I needed a bit more swing because that side-bet was taking too much of my winnings when it lost, which is most of the time. If I bet more on the ante and the 3X raise, then the side-bet becomes a little less relevant, but I didn't want to get rid of it because it pays 500:1 on a Royal. So I started betting $50 on the ante and $150 on the 3X Raise and $10 on the Final Hand side bet. I think I won that side-bet one time even after I folded. So I was winning $200-$10 on hands below 3 of a kind that were winners, like a 5% vig of sorts. Obviously I'm betting too large for a $1,050 bankroll because if I lose 5 hands, I'm done. But I got a little winning streak and got up to above $2K, then I hit a 4 of a kind which I'll post here for proof and won 41 for 1 on the $10 side-bet. Bets were refunded in the included total of winnings.




Since this win, I'm lowering my bets to $25 on the ante, $75 on the 3X Raise, so I'll win $100 on winning hands, and $5 on the Final Hand side-bet.

When the community cards push the game and the Final Hand pays off anyway.


When I finally win a Full House. I'm noticing patterns in these cards right about now.


Less than 5 hands later, Another Full House!
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Oct 17, 2022
AlanMendelson
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October 17th, 2022 at 1:46:12 AM permalink
JackSpade deciding NOT to gamble your winnings is certainly a valid option and there are indeed investing options today that beat the 1% or 2% advantage that some gamblers claim to have.
DRich
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October 17th, 2022 at 5:17:33 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

In another thread DRich wrote:

Quote: DRich

When I was playing high denom video poker and hitting royals for $50k people were always asking what are you going to do with all that money. I would always make something up about taking a big vacation but the truth was I was going to put it right back in the machines.
link to original post



These questions are for any and all members who care to reply.

I'm sure no one would intend to mean they would play it all back.

So would you use the money won to keep playing and hopefully to generate more wins?

Would you continue at the same denomination or play lower or higher?

Would you force yourself to save a certain percentage as a prize of accomplishment or is it all available to be at risk again?

Would you quit for the day or the trip or do do you believe all gambling is one continuous session and any pause is of no consequence?

Do you put aside anything for the tax consequences even the increase in AGI if you end the year with no taxable gain?

Just curious about the style of players here.

Thanks.
link to original post



In my case my video poker bankroll was my whole checking and savings accounts. The $50k royals were just added to the bank accounts and rolled back into the gambling money. Maybe once a year I would take some profits out of the accounts and find somewhere to invest them. Although I was playing five days a week or so I always maintained a full time job that would more than cover all of the traditional bills. I never put money aside for gambling taxes because I had no idea what they would be until the end of the year. When it came time to pay gambling taxes that just came out of my bankroll. To me gambling was just one big session and daily results were generally meaningless. Don't get me wrong, on bad days I would stop gambling when losses exceeded $10k for the day. That was just a "mental" number and something I used to just walk away for the day without doing anything stupid.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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October 17th, 2022 at 5:29:43 AM permalink
Thanks DRich.

Were you surprised by the impact on your AGI and how that impacted your overall tax bill?

After 2021 I'm shocked by the impact on my AGI and I only had gross wins of about 80k. But because I played so little it was easy to see the direct impact on my AGI and overall taxes.
DRich
DRich
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AlanMendelson
October 17th, 2022 at 5:33:48 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Thanks DRich.

Were you surprised by the impact on your AGI and how that impacted your overall tax bill?

After 2021 I'm shocked by the impact on my AGI and I only had gross wins of about 80k. But because I played so little it was easy to see the direct impact on my AGI and overall taxes.
link to original post



I probably was in the first year or two of playing big. After that I just understood I would be in the highest tax bracket,
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
JackSpade
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October 17th, 2022 at 10:04:02 AM permalink
The tax code is an abomination that forces gamblers to 'itemize' or file as professional gamblers in order to claim any losses to offset jackpots.

I have won 5 reportable jackpots this year and fear a coming tax nightmare. Anyone here file as a pro gambler?
TigerWu
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October 17th, 2022 at 11:14:31 AM permalink
It depends on how much that $50k is relative to my initial bankroll. If I'm a high roller and $50k is just another Tuesday, might as well keep gambling. If I'm a low roller, then I am definitely putting a big chunk of that into savings or retirement.

Quote: JackSpade

I'm going to invest my recent $16,000 jackpot into a small cap international stock market index. I believe now is a generational opportunity to buy foreign assets at a deep discount.
link to original post



LOL...we've had three or four "generational opportunities" in the last 20 years or so.
DRich
DRich
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October 17th, 2022 at 11:44:21 AM permalink
Quote: JackSpade

The tax code is an abomination that forces gamblers to 'itemize' or file as professional gamblers in order to claim any losses to offset jackpots.

I have won 5 reportable jackpots this year and fear a coming tax nightmare. Anyone here file as a pro gambler?
link to original post



What constitutes a tax nightmare? I would say most people in your situation would just claim those five taxables and claim an equal amount of gambling losses. For one who does that the only real implication is the increase in AGI and a slightly higher tax bracket. I am not offering tax advice, but I think that is what 99% of people usually do.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
JackSpade
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RogerKint
October 18th, 2022 at 1:32:09 AM permalink
The tax code itself is a nightmare, and it's especially horrific for gamblers who end up paying taxes on arbitrary IRS-defined jackpots even though they've typically lost more money gambling than they've won. If you think tax compliance is fair or somehow patriotic, you embody the mindset of slave.

The Biden administration wants to hire 85,000 IRS agents to enforce an incomprehensibly complex and unjust tax code. We'd be better off if those 85,000 people were hired to picked up litter and the politicians who steal our livelihoods were put in jail.
AlanMendelson
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October 18th, 2022 at 3:02:12 AM permalink
Quote: JackSpade

The tax code itself is a nightmare, and it's especially horrific for gamblers who end up paying taxes on arbitrary IRS-defined jackpots even though they've typically lost more money gambling than they've won. If you think tax compliance is fair or somehow patriotic, you embody the mindset of slave.

The Biden administration wants to hire 85,000 IRS agents to enforce an incomprehensibly complex and unjust tax code. We'd be better off if those 85,000 people were hired to picked up litter and the politicians who steal our livelihoods were put in jail.
link to original post



Uhoh
ChumpChange
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October 18th, 2022 at 3:38:31 AM permalink
"There's one for you, nineteen for me!" - Taxman - Beatles
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