AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson 
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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May 9th, 2022 at 12:57:30 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Nevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner. Asking one random person is not a reasonable effort.
Turning it into the lost and found would be. Posting on Craigs List would be. I believe the onus is on you to show you weren't planning on keeping it.
'An unidentified female employee told me I could keep the __________ I found in the casino " is something you tell your cellmate, not the arresting officer.
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If I were on the jury I'd vote to acquit the player who found the $1200. The player was told to keep the money.

I dont know if the slot attendant violated any casino rule. I didnt speak to the casino manager. I've asked several times now if anyone knows the casino policy?

From what I was told and from what was discussed at the craps table, we don't know if the slot attendant asked Security or management or what was done.

Unlike a wallet which can even have valid ID the money had no ID attached to it. We don't even know if someone reported a loss.

I find it curious no one says "yeah... what's the casino's policy on this?" You already have your minds made up!

Suppose the casino manager said: "no one reported a loss. Tell the player to keep the money." Then what?
unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
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May 9th, 2022 at 3:20:00 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Nevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner. Asking one random person is not a reasonable effort.
Turning it into the lost and found would be. Posting on Craigs List would be. I believe the onus is on you to show you weren't planning on keeping it.
'An unidentified female employee told me I could keep the __________ I found in the casino " is something you tell your cellmate, not the arresting officer.
link to original post



Very much disagree. You keep making up facts as a straw man.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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May 9th, 2022 at 5:10:50 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: billryan

Nevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner. Asking one random person is not a reasonable effort.
Turning it into the lost and found would be. Posting on Craigs List would be. I believe the onus is on you to show you weren't planning on keeping it.
'An unidentified female employee told me I could keep the __________ I found in the casino " is something you tell your cellmate, not the arresting officer.
link to original post



If I were on the jury I'd vote to acquit the player who found the $1200. The player was told to keep the money.

I dont know if the slot attendant violated any casino rule. I didnt speak to the casino manager. I've asked several times now if anyone knows the casino policy?

From what I was told and from what was discussed at the craps table, we don't know if the slot attendant asked Security or management or what was done.

Unlike a wallet which can even have valid ID the money had no ID attached to it. We don't even know if someone reported a loss.

I find it curious no one says "yeah... what's the casino's policy on this?" You already have your minds made up!

Suppose the casino manager said: "no one reported a loss. Tell the player to keep the money." Then what?
link to original post



Why do you keep repeating what the casino policy is?

Alan, I guarantee casino policy is to follow the law.

End all be all

I have quoted you the law.

Bill Ryan and I have been at loggerheads on so many things we are toxic but what he says on this topic is spot on. Good faith to find an owner isn't asking someone who themselves doesn't conduct good faith efforts to find the owner and then says they did all they can.

Red Rock casino has a lost and found department on the website. I suppose this means their policy is to try and find the owners of lost property. Not tell the rightful owners the Craps boxman gave permission to a known stranger to walk off with it.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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May 9th, 2022 at 5:46:33 AM permalink
But the boxman said it was okay if I let my kid sneak sips of my beer.
But the waitress said it was okay to smoke pot by the pool.
But the slot girl assured me this was a winning machine.

As my grandma possibly said: If a casino employee says to jump off the roof, would you do it?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson 
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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May 9th, 2022 at 5:56:52 AM permalink
Bill Ryan and Darkoz:

Bill wrote "Nevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner."

There is nothing about the casino.

So... the player finds the money. The player tells the slot attendant. The slot attendant says keep it.

The player has made a reasonable attempt.
The slot attendant and the casino were never on the hook.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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May 9th, 2022 at 6:30:42 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Bill Ryan and Darkoz:

Bill wrote "Nevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner."

There is nothing about the casino.

So... the player finds the money. The player tells the slot attendant. The slot attendant says keep it.

The player has made a reasonable attempt.
The slot attendant and the casino were never on the hook.
link to original post



Lol, okay you have come up with your own definition of reasonable attempt.

Here is what most states consider a reasonable attempt to find the owner.

You turn in the found item to lost and found and ask for a claim form. After sixty or ninety days (usually specified in statute law for that state) if the lost item isn't claimed by the rightful owner you can return with your claim form and receive the item.

Most states specifically include money in this type of definition of reasonable.

Again here is NY procedures.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
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May 9th, 2022 at 6:31:04 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

But the boxman said it was okay if I let my kid sneak sips of my beer.
But the waitress said it was okay to smoke pot by the pool.
But the slot girl assured me this was a winning machine.

As my grandma possibly said: If a casino employee says to jump off the roof, would you do it?
link to original post



No. But if I did do it, I wouldn’t be guilty of “theft”. Not a hard concept. But you keep conflating “being guilty of theft” with other stuff.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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May 9th, 2022 at 6:37:04 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Quote: billryan

But the boxman said it was okay if I let my kid sneak sips of my beer.
But the waitress said it was okay to smoke pot by the pool.
But the slot girl assured me this was a winning machine.

As my grandma possibly said: If a casino employee says to jump off the roof, would you do it?
link to original post



No. But if I did do it, I wouldn’t be guilty of “theft”. Not a hard concept. But you keep conflating “being guilty of theft” with other stuff.
link to original post



Nonsense. I'm just saying it is illegal to keep money you find without going thru reasonable steps to find the owner. Claiming someone told you to keep it doesn't fit that bill.
I think converting someone else's property to your own without their permission is theft. If the DA chooses to plea bargain it down to possession of stolen property or any of a dozen other things doesn't change the fact.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
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May 9th, 2022 at 6:43:37 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: unJon

Quote: billryan

But the boxman said it was okay if I let my kid sneak sips of my beer.
But the waitress said it was okay to smoke pot by the pool.
But the slot girl assured me this was a winning machine.

As my grandma possibly said: If a casino employee says to jump off the roof, would you do it?
link to original post



No. But if I did do it, I wouldn’t be guilty of “theft”. Not a hard concept. But you keep conflating “being guilty of theft” with other stuff.
link to original post



Nonsense. I'm just saying it is illegal to keep money you find without going thru reasonable steps to find the owner. Claiming someone told you to keep it doesn't fit that bill.
I think converting someone else's property to your own without their permission is theft. If the DA chooses to plea bargain it down to possession of stolen property or any of a dozen other things doesn't change the fact.
link to original post



I’m the one that told you the standard of reasonable inquiry.

Claiming “someone” told you to keep it may or may not be reasonable inquiry. It depends on the someone and the circumstances. And you making up different hypotheticals about the “someone” is not relevant. It’s just you arguing a straw man. But if that makes you happy please do carry on.

Conversion is a different crime than theft. Both are property crimes. If you are interested in the difference you can look up the Nevada statutes.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson 
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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May 9th, 2022 at 6:47:31 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: AlanMendelson

Bill Ryan and Darkoz:

Bill wrote "Nevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner."

There is nothing about the casino.

So... the player finds the money. The player tells the slot attendant. The slot attendant says keep it.

The player has made a reasonable attempt.
The slot attendant and the casino were never on the hook.
link to original post



Lol, okay you have come up with your own definition of reasonable attempt.

Here is what most states consider a reasonable attempt to find the owner.

You turn in the found item to lost and found and ask for a claim form. After sixty or ninety days (usually specified in statute law for that state) if the lost item isn't claimed by the rightful owner you can return with your claim form and receive the item.

Most states specifically include money in this type of definition of reasonable.

Again here is NY procedures.


link to original post



But that's not the law in Nevada, is it?

So consider this dialogue:

The player says "I told the slot attendant I found this money. The slot attendant told me I could keep it."

To the slot attendant: "Did you tell the player she could keep the money?"

Slot attendant says: "I wasn't the finder. The casino wasn't the finder. There was no identification on the money. Nothing showed on our surveillance. We don't know who lost it."

To the surveillance manager: "You didnt see the money dropped?"

Surveillance manager says: "It was rolled up like a big drinking straw. We didnt see it."

To the casino manager: "Why didnt you look for the person who lost the money?"

The casino manager says: "If we listed $1200 in $100 bills on our lost and found website how many people do you think would say its theirs? Besides, the law says the establishment doesn't have to locate the person who lost it... the finder does. The finder notified us and under another Nevada law money found in casinos belongs to us and we decided this player could keep it. It was our money as soon as it was found and we're giving it to the player. That's our policy."

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