ReyGarcia
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January 3rd, 2022 at 3:21:13 AM permalink
If I book a room through a host, play during the stay, I'm sure the host earns a commission off my play.

If I arrive at the casino without a booked room, play heavily, then ask the host for some food comp that day, does the host still earn a commission off my play?
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January 3rd, 2022 at 4:42:24 AM permalink
Quote: ReyGarcia

If I book a room through a host, play during the stay, I'm sure the host earns a commission off my play.

If I arrive at the casino without a booked room, play heavily, then ask the host for some food comp that day, does the host still earn a commission off my play?
link to original post



Yes they can make extra money like that but I think itís limited to if you lose. The last time I checked at least. I bet there is different models for different casinos. Hosting is like an in house casino junket but they are paid salary they essentially function the same way if you know how junkets work.
DRich
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January 3rd, 2022 at 6:00:51 AM permalink
Quote: ReyGarcia

If I book a room through a host, play during the stay, I'm sure the host earns a commission off my play.

If I arrive at the casino without a booked room, play heavily, then ask the host for some food comp that day, does the host still earn a commission off my play?
link to original post



Generally a host will get a percentage of your theoretical loss. For example if a host gets 10% of your theo loss and you play $10,000 coin in on a 10% slot machine your theo loss will be $1000. If the host gets 5% he will make $50 off of your play.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
MDawg
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January 3rd, 2022 at 6:16:26 AM permalink
None of this is correct. It might've been years and years ago, but these days at every Vegas casino I play at in house hosts are salaried and don't get a penny more or less if their players win or lose. The only thing that happens if a player doesn't play enough or flat out stops playing for long enough is that if the host is a top level one will simply drop the player to a different host or have the player assigned to no specific host at all.

I am aware that in some Indian casinos in California INDEPENDENT (as in, outside) hosts still get a % of their players' losses, but even this sort of thing for independent hosts stopped years ago in Vegas.
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SOOPOO
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January 3rd, 2022 at 6:20:13 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

None of this is correct. It might've been years and years ago, but these days at every casino I play at in house hosts are salaried and don't get a penny more or less if their players win or lose.
link to original post



I can see them being salaried, but no bonuses for attracting/keeping big players?

Remind me, when you stay for, say, a week, with everything comped, plus a few grand in free chips, a few grand in gift cards, etcÖ. How much do you on average tip your host?
darkoz
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January 3rd, 2022 at 6:28:55 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

None of this is correct. It might've been years and years ago, but these days at every Vegas casino I play at in house hosts are salaried and don't get a penny more or less if their players win or lose. The only thing that happens if a player doesn't play enough or flat out stops playing for long enough is that if the host is a top level one will simply drop the player to a different host or have the player assigned to no specific host at all.

I am aware that in some Indian casinos in California INDEPENDENT (as in, outside) hosts still get a % of their players' losses, but even this sort of thing for independent hosts stopped years ago in Vegas.
link to original post



I don't completely know about Vegas but if it is like most of the other markets, I concur with MDawg here.

It's old history that doesn't occur anymore.

This may be different for whales ($50,000 wagers etc). I saw a documentary where the host had that Canadian bed mattress whale and when he didn't play for two days the host begged him to. His words were something akin to "We don't care if you win or lose, but give us a shot at your money". He was wagering fifty grand a spin at roulette!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
MDawg
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January 3rd, 2022 at 6:31:31 AM permalink
It is tempting to believe that hosts make more off losing players but this sort of thinking is coming from people who sit at home thinking too much, instead of actually entering the bullpen and living it. Not referring to you SooPoo. Or to put it more nicely, why say anything unless you know for certain? I do know for certain how it works these days in Vegas.

DarkOz, I believe actually - at the TIME that Theroux documentary was filmed - that at that time INDEPENDENT hosts in Vegas might have gotten a % of the loss of their players, but no longer. (Which might be why that independent host from that documentary is no longer an independent host, and just works these days as a player development guy for The D / Circa downtown.)

It probably does make sense that as a host gets more and bigger players that the host would move up in the ranks to a higher salaried position, such as a higher level host (Executive Host), the top host in charge of the other hosts, VP of Player Development, and such, but some of that comes simply from working at a job long enough and doing it well. The host's job is to take care of the player win lose or draw based on action.

SooPoo, I give my hosts Holiday gifts and now and again other tangible gifts, but I have never handed a host cash. (The closest to that has been - gift cards.) I am not sure if they would accept cash? In the old days I used to give pit bosses "happy handshakes" (folded hundred dollar bills), but the impression I get is that such a gesture might get a pit boss in trouble these days.

Let me explain how it works in the very high level, for the highest level hosts...someone in my family might be throwing a wedding or some high level party, either in the United States or abroad, I or another top level player might invite the host and spouse to attend, and put the host up in our own home. Or say, the host is visiting where I live or have a vacation home, the host will be put up in that home. That's how it works at the top levels - some of these very high level hosts and VPs of player development are living the same lifestyle of the rich and famous as the players.
At the "lower" level it might be that the host and significant other sit down at a meal with you and your significant other and indulge in a $1000. (or more) bottle of wine or whatever that is being comp'ed anyway, but at higher levels they are your guests in your own homes and private events. So when some players say that so-and-so host is my friend, in cases where that host has been a guest in your own homes, that host might well be considered a friend.
Last edited by: MDawg on Jan 3, 2022
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January 3rd, 2022 at 9:54:34 AM permalink
i got my info from this

https://digitalscholarship.unlv.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1615&context=thesesdissertations

and i read it about a year ago... yeah its ftom 2005 but i feel good about what i said when DRich kind of confirmed what i said as i wasnt just making ish up. Of course most of the people in here wont know the exact inner workings if we dont.. do what you do...

and the whale story is in that dissertation
MDawg
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January 3rd, 2022 at 10:09:49 AM permalink
Are you confirming then that you have no personal experience with any of this and get your theories off the internet? Are you saying that the confirmation of another stay at home is all it takes to confirm your own stay at home theories? Anyway I didn't mean to imply that you made things up, just saying that is not the way it is, today.

In any case, in 2005, and perhaps even in 2007 (at the time of Theroux's documentary), independent hosts might have benefited from the losses of their players, but today, in Vegas, in house hosts are all straight salaried. (As well, scanning that scholarly writing you referenced, many of the annotations refer to data from 1994.)

In the same way that divorce attorneys are not allowed to obtain a contingency of the settlement and must work for a straight rate I suppose it would be considered a conflict of interest for a host to get a percentage of a player's losses. In any case, nothing like that is happening in Vegas today.
Last edited by: MDawg on Jan 3, 2022
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
DRich
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January 3rd, 2022 at 10:29:18 AM permalink
I personally know two casino hosts at the Tropicana that get a percentage of the theo from their players. Of course, they have both been there many many years so their deal might be different.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
MDawg
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January 3rd, 2022 at 11:09:11 AM permalink
Now comes the time when MDawg says, I don't believe you.

If you could re-verify the information somehow, I could be convinced.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
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January 3rd, 2022 at 11:38:00 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Are you confirming then that you have no personal experience with any of this and get your theories off the internet? Are you saying that the confirmation of another stay at home is all it takes to confirm your own stay at home theories? Anyway I didn't mean to imply that you made things up, just saying that is not the way it is, today.

In any case, in 2005, and perhaps even in 2007 (at the time of Theroux's documentary), independent hosts might have benefited from the losses of their players, but today, in Vegas, in house hosts are all straight salaried. (As well, scanning that scholarly writing you referenced, many of the annotations refer to data from 1994.)

In the same way that divorce attorneys are not allowed to obtain a contingency of the settlement and must work for a straight rate I suppose it would be considered a conflict of interest for a host to get a percentage of a player's losses. In any case, nothing like that is happening in Vegas today.
link to original post



you were born doing and knowing how to do all of this right?

not a single person just knows stuff like this they have to learn it somewhere.

just because you do this doesnt mean you can get all tight assed about when someone decides to be in a conversation trying to answer a question. I did it to the best of my ability based on what i read from someone who wrote about it for their schools dissertation.

it seemed thorough enough that it could be a starting point to the discussion.

and thats what were doing in order for us all to learn.

DRich
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January 3rd, 2022 at 11:43:41 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Now comes the time when MDawg says, I don't believe you.

If you could re-verify the information somehow, I could be convinced.
link to original post



If you are talking to me, I don't care if you believe me or not. I was told by two hosts at Trop that they get a percentage of theo. They are friends of mine so I don't know why they would mislead me. They have both been there over 15 years so maybe it is different for them or what they re telling me is not true. I don't care enough to argue about it.

My wife was good friends with Steve Cyr's wife and I know he got a percentage but that may have been when he was independent and not on staff.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
MDawg
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January 3rd, 2022 at 12:01:29 PM permalink
As I posted, independents did used to get a percentage of losses in Vegas but that was many years ago.

Today, in house Vegas hosts get salary only.

Says the Pope of Las Vegas.

I suppose all of what we know about this would be considered hearsay, in that none of us are hosts, but my information is consistent based on what all of the hosts at all of the properties have told me, including at least one independent host. Plus, I'm in the mix, playing daily and no host does anything other than root for me to win, and genuinely feels bad when I have a losing session, and none of that is faked. I know these hosts well, I deal with them daily when I am in Vegas staying at the casinos, which is quite often lately.

Hosts really don't care if you win or lose because they know that for every winner there will be several losers - in other words, the property will profit even if their players win. Of course, in the end, how many players do win? Not many, so the system works itself out with or without the host's positive input to the players.

I have never had a host who wanted me to lose. You do mention theoretical loss, which does not necessarily mean actual loss, but still, it implies that the level of action of the player has something directly to do with the host's compensation, which no in house host I deal with is compensated in that way, and that is across quite a few properties.
Last edited by: MDawg on Jan 3, 2022
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Marcusclark66
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January 3rd, 2022 at 12:05:43 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I personally know two casino hosts at the Tropicana that get a percentage of the theo from their players. Of course, they have both been there many many years so their deal might be different.
link to original post



By any chance, is one Joe and the other one Mark?
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MrV
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January 3rd, 2022 at 12:42:06 PM permalink
It's a bit out of date but the book about super host Steve Cyr, "Whale Hunt in the Desert" is a good read.
"What, me worry?"
AlanMendelson
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January 3rd, 2022 at 1:06:31 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

None of this is correct. It might've been years and years ago, but these days at every Vegas casino I play at in house hosts are salaried and don't get a penny more or less if their players win or lose. The only thing that happens if a player doesn't play enough or flat out stops playing for long enough is that if the host is a top level one will simply drop the player to a different host or have the player assigned to no specific host at all.

I am aware that in some Indian casinos in California INDEPENDENT (as in, outside) hosts still get a % of their players' losses, but even this sort of thing for independent hosts stopped years ago in Vegas.
link to original post



Just three weeks ago Caesars Palace advertised for a host. The job description said salary plus commissions.
mcallister3200
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January 3rd, 2022 at 1:11:48 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg



and genuinely feels bad when I have a losing session, and none of that is faked.


link to original post



Hahahaha!!!

They GENUINELY (hahahah) feel BAD! BAD!!! They feel BADLY if he loses!!!! None of it is faked!!!!! Never!!!!

Of course he could tell the difference if they did fake it too. Bahahahaha!!!!!

Some of the unintentionally funniest stuff I have ever read on this site.
MDawg
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January 3rd, 2022 at 1:58:20 PM permalink
If I put a big burlap bag over my head such that I couldn't see, I'd still see, sense and know more than most.
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Hunterhill
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January 3rd, 2022 at 2:50:23 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

If I put a big burlap bag over my head such that I couldn't see, I'd still see, sense and know more than most.
link to original post


I donít know if they make burlap bags that big
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billryan
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January 3rd, 2022 at 2:57:53 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: MDawg

If I put a big burlap bag over my head such that I couldn't see, I'd still see, sense and know more than most.
link to original post


I donít know if they make burlap bags that big
link to original post



Perhaps he could take off that funny looking pope hat.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
DRich
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January 3rd, 2022 at 3:16:55 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson



Just three weeks ago Caesars Palace advertised for a host. The job description said salary plus commissions.
link to original post



Obviously you read that wrong, MDawg says it doesn't work that way.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
ReyGarcia
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January 4th, 2022 at 4:48:18 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg


Today, in house Vegas hosts get salary only.
link to original post



That doesn't seem to be possible, I believe hosts earn salary+commission in Vegas.
I'm sure if I book a room through my host, he earns a commission off me, but not really sure if I play without a booked room then ask for some food comp.

Sometimes hosts would approach new players and offer food or room. They seem to care more about you booking a room for the next visit, it seems like they don't earn commission by giving you food comp the same day.
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January 4th, 2022 at 7:34:22 AM permalink
The most likely answer is that it varies from casino to casino. If they want to reward their ... marketing team which essentially a host is an arm to it... they can do that if they want.
Marcusclark66
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January 4th, 2022 at 7:55:58 AM permalink
Quote: ReyGarcia

Quote: MDawg


Today, in house Vegas hosts get salary only.
link to original post



That doesn't seem to be possible, I believe hosts earn salary+commission in Vegas.
I'm sure if I book a room through my host, he earns a commission off me, but not really sure if I play without a booked room then ask for some food comp.

Sometimes hosts would approach new players and offer food or room. They seem to care more about you booking a room for the next visit, it seems like they don't earn commission by giving you food comp the same day.
link to original post



Player development is going to be individualized from brand to brand and how they implement their own programs. Yes there are some casino hosts that are going to make a percentage off of your Theo and other ones that will not and the department will and it will be split amongst the player development personnel. But again it is going to be varied and different from casino brand to brand.
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kewlj
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January 4th, 2022 at 11:22:43 AM permalink
I am not familiar with how hosts are paid. Hosts are not part of my play and game plan. As a matter of fact, I do everything I can to avoid them in the name of anonymity.

But it just cracks me up that there is one person, who insists that he knows and insists that it is straight salary, when everyone else that knows and has some experience, says otherwise, including a member that personally knows several hosts and a member that posted Ceasar's recent ad for a host which was salary + commission.

Just another interesting observation.
MDawg
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January 6th, 2022 at 10:36:54 AM permalink
Independent hosts have different arrangements with different casinos, but even they get more from a player they represent who plays all week and builds up a big theoretical loss (and say, wins) versus a straight regular loss.

In house hosts, it is generally misleading to say that they always get something specific out of a player's straight losing or even playing - there are in some cases team bonuses or bonuses obtained when the aggregate of a host's players play beyond a certain level, and in some casinos there is no such structure at all and it is straight salary. As well, if a host's players all fall below a certain level and stop playing much at all, there could be repercussions as well. These sorts of arrangements are usually what is meant by "commission" bonuses.

In any case, just as a player earns more comps via long hard play versus blowouts, the same for any host who directly or indirectly gains some benefit from a player's play - these hosts will get more out of players who keep playing versus who straight lose quickly.
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ReyGarcia
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January 8th, 2022 at 1:16:28 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap


Yes they can make extra money like that but I think itís limited to if you lose. The last time I checked at least. I bet there is different models for different casinos. Hosting is like an in house casino junket but they are paid salary they essentially function the same way if you know how junkets work.
link to original post



The junket brings guests to casinos, so he reasonably earns a commission.
When a guest goes to the casino, play heavily first, then reach a host asking for a food comp, the host essentially didn't contribute anything to the guest's play.
SOOPOO
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January 8th, 2022 at 5:19:47 AM permalink
Quote: ReyGarcia

Quote: heatmap


Yes they can make extra money like that but I think itís limited to if you lose. The last time I checked at least. I bet there is different models for different casinos. Hosting is like an in house casino junket but they are paid salary they essentially function the same way if you know how junkets work.
link to original post



The junket brings guests to casinos, so he reasonably earns a commission.
When a guest goes to the casino, play heavily first, then reach a host asking for a food comp, the host essentially didn't contribute anything to the guest's play.
link to original post


The guestís PAST play. But certainly can affect FUTURE play.
AxelWolf
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January 8th, 2022 at 7:00:46 AM permalink
I've never heard of straight-up commissions for a casino-employed host, but I have no doubt it's a thing. That sounds like a really bad idea to me.

For the most part, I was under the impression they received bonuses if the total of all their assigned players hit various action levels.
I know some hosts get paid significant bonuses for bringing in high-level players.

I don't think the average host makes a significant amount of money, I'd be surprised if the average host made over 68k a year.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MDawg
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January 8th, 2022 at 9:54:17 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

For the most part, I was under the impression they received bonuses if the total of all their assigned players hit various action levels.
link to original post


Quote: MDawg

Independent hosts have different arrangements with different casinos, but even they get more from a player they represent who plays all week and builds up a big theoretical loss (and say, wins) versus a straight regular loss.

In house hosts, it is generally misleading to say that they always get something specific out of a player's straight losing or even playing - there are in some cases team bonuses or bonuses obtained when the aggregate of a host's players play beyond a certain level, and in some casinos there is no such structure at all and it is straight salary. As well, if a host's players all fall below a certain level and stop playing much at all, there could be repercussions as well. These sorts of arrangements are usually what is meant by "commission" bonuses.

In any case, just as a player earns more comps via long hard play versus blowouts, the same for any host who directly or indirectly gains some benefit from a player's play - these hosts will get more out of players who keep playing versus who straight lose quickly.
link to original post


AxelWolf and MDawg standing shoulder to shoulder on something Who woulda thunk it?
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mcallister3200
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January 8th, 2022 at 10:04:09 AM permalink
Whether you want to classify payment based on the extent of a hosted players play a bonus or commission is semantics at best, a distinction without a difference. In either case that would mean they are NOT being paid on salary only.

Since thereís really no product to ďsell,Ē it wouldnít fit into an extremely narrow classification of commission.
oliverwilliams
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March 29th, 2022 at 11:00:11 AM permalink
yes they definitely can gain some extra money like that, at least that's what I know
DRich
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March 29th, 2022 at 11:07:33 AM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Whether you want to classify payment based on the extent of a hosted players play a bonus or commission is semantics at best, a distinction without a difference. In either case that would mean they are NOT being paid on salary only.

Since thereís really no product to ďsell,Ē it wouldnít fit into an extremely narrow classification of commission.
link to original post



The ones that I know of get a percentage of the players theo loss.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
handsNftRmangos
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AxelWolf
June 5th, 2023 at 2:43:25 PM permalink
I can safely say with a high degree of certainty that at at least one (probably considered THE) highest end casino on the Vegas strip the hosts get a commission based off their guests and a reasonable degree of certainty that is directly related to theoretical loss.

I assume they are also salaried, the commissions are bonuses, and the bonuses are a direct percentage of theoretical loss without any relation to actual loss.

The initial comps are for sure based on theoretical, and it seems like they may have some flexibility in terms of post stay additional comps if actual losses are higher then theoretical. Although I know for certain they also hve flexibility for adding comps during your stay if your current theoretical exceeds what you were initially comped even if you are playing positive.

Long story short, casino hosts (at least some places) most certainly do make commissions but they arenít incentivized for you to lose, they are incentivized for you to play.
MDawg
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June 5th, 2023 at 4:10:10 PM permalink
Quote: handsNftRmangos

I can safely say with a high degree of certainty that at at least one (probably considered THE) highest end casino on the Vegas strip the hosts get a commission based off their guests and a reasonable degree of certainty that is directly related to theoretical loss.

I assume they are also salaried, the commissions are bonuses, and the bonuses are a direct percentage of theoretical loss without any relation to actual loss.

The initial comps are for sure based on theoretical, and it seems like they may have some flexibility in terms of post stay additional comps if actual losses are higher then theoretical. Although I know for certain they also hve flexibility for adding comps during your stay if your current theoretical exceeds what you were initially comped even if you are playing positive.

Long story short, casino hosts (at least some places) most certainly do make commissions but they arenít incentivized for you to lose, they are incentivized for you to play.
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You are actually quite wrong. In-house hosts sometime threaten their jobs to get more salary after pointing out how many high end players they have under them, but they don't get a penny more whether their players play a lot or a little, other than maybe team bonuses if their entire team hits certain numbers, but even those team bonuses I've come to find out are not as cut and dried as all that, and don't even exist at all casinos.

They might get chewed out if they keep giving too many comps to a player who hasn't earned them, but otherwise, the casino does not give them any sort of commission based on play or loss.

In other words, and I believe I know which casino you are talking about when you say "I can safely say with a high degree of certainty that at at least one (probably considered THE) highest end casino on the Vegas strip the hosts get a commission based off their guests and a reasonable degree of certainty that is directly related to theoretical loss. " you are dead wrong.

Independent (not in-house) hosts on the other hand earn entirely based on their players' actual loss or theo loss, where they get a lot more based on theo if the player puts in the hours at a good average bet, which, independent hosts don't bother with players who don't play solidly, so over all independent hosts are just hoping that their guys put in the hours.
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handsNftRmangos
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June 5th, 2023 at 4:26:02 PM permalink
Agree to disagree. I am certain (unless I am being overtly and intentionally misdirected) that the casino hosts at the establishment I am talking about are incentivized and receive additional money based off of their clients play profiles. Perhaps we are talking about different establishments or there are some semantics involved. Iím not here to argue just passing on information that I received as recently as this weekend/yesterday.
DRich
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June 6th, 2023 at 8:33:09 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

.

They might get chewed out if they keep giving too many comps to a player who hasn't earned them, but otherwise, the casino does not give them any sort of commission based on play or loss.



You must be speaking of a different Las vegas than the one that I worked in for 30 years. The one I worked in many hosts got :"commissions" based on their players theo loss.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
MDawg
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June 6th, 2023 at 9:06:39 AM permalink


Over the past five years especially, I have gotten quite close to at least one host at each major property in Vegas, so what I say above is based on what they have told me. I hang out with some of these guys off property, socially, including in places other than Nevada, so theyíd have no reason not to tell me exactly how it works.

As well, the in-house hosts I've known who have threatened their jobs because they weren't getting enough salary did so by pointing out to management how many players they have under them - they did not automatically get more for having more players nor did they get any commission by having more players - just not the way the in-house system works.

If you go to a given casino you will find that different hosts have different salaries, of course, but this is often based on nothing specific you may even point to. A host who has been there less time might have a higher salary than one who has been there since day one, and that sort of thing is what leads to gripes and hosts' threatening their jobs.

Maybe long ago it was different. You mentioned the Tropicana and I don't know if what you mentioned about them was based also on the past. If the Tropicana works differently even today, I wouldn't know I don't even play there, but the Tropicana may be imploded soon anyway.
Last edited by: MDawg on Jun 6, 2023
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SiegfriedRoy
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June 6th, 2023 at 11:58:01 AM permalink
Quote: handsNftRmangos

I can safely say with a high degree of certainty that at at least one (probably considered THE) highest end casino on the Vegas strip the hosts get a commission based off their guests and a reasonable degree of certainty that is directly related to theoretical loss.

I assume they are also salaried, the commissions are bonuses, and the bonuses are a direct percentage of theoretical loss without any relation to actual loss.

The initial comps are for sure based on theoretical, and it seems like they may have some flexibility in terms of post stay additional comps if actual losses are higher then theoretical. Although I know for certain they also hve flexibility for adding comps during your stay if your current theoretical exceeds what you were initially comped even if you are playing positive.

Long story short, casino hosts (at least some places) most certainly do make commissions but they arenít incentivized for you to lose, they are incentivized for you to play.
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Iím aligned with what is said above. And Iíd like to add some more.

For couple of decades, I too have wondered about this. I know many hosts who are no longer in the business and I did an impromptu ďtell allĒ over drinks one night with a previous host I was extremely close with. He worked at MGM, Caesars (Total Rewards back then) and Venetian/Palazzo for over 20 years. According to him, different properties have different bonus/commission structures. It is also discouraged to let players know that the hosts make money off of theo and/or losses, but itís true that salary isnít the only source of salary. Some properties have the salary structured in a way that you must meet certain amount of combined Theo to make the salary. And the host can unlock different levels of bonus/commission if they meet the annual above and beyond. Some properties (Cosmo pre-pandemic) had different weight between actual aggregate combined loss and Theo as the hostís additional bonus. And yes, Hosts love getting cash gifts. They will be grateful for anything above and beyond, but cash is king. I also was told there are these legacy hosts who has been at certain properties for decades and have players (whales and mini-whales) they have developed over the years. These legacy hosts are in-house but have contracts that have very lucrative terms so that they get a large percent of the theos of their said whales. These legacy hosts are rare, but I hear they exist at Caesars, and when El Dorado took over, they had no choice but to grandfather these terms since these whales were extremely loyal to their hosts.

I donít really care if you disagree with me believe me, but I know my info is accurate as of pre-pandemic. I canít speak of how much it has changed post-pandemic, but I doubt it has changed much.
MDawg
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June 6th, 2023 at 12:31:48 PM permalink
Not only is it not that way, but it doesn't even make any sense for it to be that way. If it were, there would be a mass stampede for everyone to want to work at Wynn and a job there would be something people would knife others in the back for, and yet - casino hosts leave Wynn occasionally to work someplace else.

You'd also think that now that MGM owns Cosmo hosts would be up in arms over the change from commission to straight salary, but - no protests like that are going on, are they?

As well, if a big player wanted to change hosts the outgoing host who gets commission would do everything including throw cash the player's way to get him to stay on his ticket, and yet - that sort of thing happens sometimes and usually just effortlessly without any commotion.

Also, why would anyone allow himself to be fired from a major on the Strip if he were getting commission, and yet, it happens and sometimes it is over the host threatening his job to ask for more SALARY (not commission because they don't get any).

It may well have been that way with commission in the distant past, but these days casino hosts get salaries and that's about it other than the possible team bonuses I mentioned above. Your mentioning "legacy hosts" in a way, is an admission that this "beyond straight salary for in-house hosts" is a thing of the past.

If you believe at all in the You get a whale show up with four million in a suitcase, and some twenty-five-year-old hotel school kid is gonna want his Social Security Number, then you have to believe that the direction in which Vegas has moved - is more cookie cutter where employees are treated like numbers according to the newest sad theory of Vegas, that "People will just walk in the door."
Last edited by: MDawg on Jun 6, 2023
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SiegfriedRoy
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June 6th, 2023 at 4:44:03 PM permalink
It makes perfect sense to me that hosts get a commission. And I would bank that Iím in the right. However, I have zero incentive or desire for you to believe me. Letís leave it at that. I want to be gentlemanly about this. If I come across reasons to believe I was wrong and you were right in the future, I will come and retract my info and put a correction.
monodactyl
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June 12th, 2023 at 10:03:21 PM permalink
Random anecdote from Macau, I've been approached by hosts a few times when I play large in mass gaming, even when I they see I already have a host. These hosts are part of the same larger group but they do seem to aggressively try to switch you over to their property.

I would imagine this indicates that there is at least some KPI / bonus tied to getting large players under them. I'm not sure it would be as direct as a % of the - definitely skeptical it would be a percentage of losses.

Also in Vegas, my Caesars host seem quite nice. I was blasting off and I think she could see in the system and she messaged me asking if I wanted to take a break. Maybe she was just being nice, but if she were getting a percentage of losses I wonder if she would show that same concern.
Dieter
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June 13th, 2023 at 1:36:36 AM permalink
Quote: monodactyl

Also in Vegas, my Caesars host seem quite nice. I was blasting off and I think she could see in the system and she messaged me asking if I wanted to take a break. Maybe she was just being nice, but if she were getting a percentage of losses I wonder if she would show that same concern.
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(trimmed)

If you go broke and quit gambling for good, there would be no future commissions.
May the cards fall in your favor.
MDawg
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gordonm888
June 13th, 2023 at 7:41:33 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Not only is it not that way, but it doesn't even make any sense for it to be that way. If it were, there would be a mass stampede for everyone to want to work at Wynn and a job there would be something people would knife others in the back for, and yet - casino hosts leave Wynn occasionally to work someplace else.

You'd also think that now that MGM owns Cosmo hosts would be up in arms over the change from commission to straight salary, but - no protests like that are going on, are they?

As well, if a big player wanted to change hosts the outgoing host who gets commission would do everything including throw cash the player's way to get him to stay on his ticket, and yet - that sort of thing happens sometimes and usually just effortlessly without any commotion.

Also, why would anyone allow himself to be fired from a major on the Strip if he were getting commission, and yet, it happens and sometimes it is over the host threatening his job to ask for more SALARY (not commission because they don't get any).

It may well have been that way with commission in the distant past, but these days casino hosts get salaries and that's about it other than the possible team bonuses I mentioned above. Your mentioning "legacy hosts" in a way, is an admission that this "beyond straight salary for in-house hosts" is a thing of the past.

If you believe at all in the You get a whale show up with four million in a suitcase, and some twenty-five-year-old hotel school kid is gonna want his Social Security Number, then you have to believe that the direction in which Vegas has moved - is more cookie cutter where employees are treated like numbers according to the newest sad theory of Vegas, that "People will just walk in the door."
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Had another conversation with a host who has been in the business thirty years. No commission for in house hosts - just not the way it works today - salary only, plus team bonuses if targets are hit. There is no quid pro quo where an in house host gets a % of his player's theo or anything like that at all. The host I talked to even added that if, for example, one host's players are hitting the targets and yet the team as a whole fails to hit those end of year targets, no one gets a nickel extra bonus.

Probably the confusion is that someone told someone obliquely, "yeah we get more if our players play more" - but this refers only to team bonuses. Again, in house hosts today get salary ONLY, plus at some casinos - team bonuses such as end of year, if the team as a whole hits certain targets. And those targets aren't as simple as just "theo loss" or "actual loss."
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handsNftRmangos
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June 13th, 2023 at 8:53:31 AM permalink
This is most certainly true in Vegas as well, at least in some places, and at least until you are established with a specific host. But prior to that there is substantial competition to land specific clients, and that competition is amongst hosts within the same casino. And the desirability of said clients is definitely based on theo. Add all that up and I canít see any way in which there are not financial incentives to have certain clients, and that incentive is based off theo. Whether that incentive is a direct commission, a ďbonusĒ, minimum requirements to maintain employability and or obtain promotions, group bonuses, etc I am not sure, but I think in many ways thatís semantics. All of those are a financial incentive for the host and are driven directly by the play of their client panels.

I will throw in the caveat that perhaps this only applies to a certain player tier, above and beyond what is required just to establish a host. I am not sure if thatís the case but i do know the aggressiveness of the hosts spiked substantially when we started playing a certain level of coin in. This also coincided with the new year, so a couple variables in play.
SiegfriedRoy
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June 13th, 2023 at 7:29:35 PM permalink
https://www.lasvegasjaunt.com/interview-las-vegas-casino-host/

This article states that Hosts can make above commission hitting certain benchmarks. Just like most restaurants will never admit that they use MSG in their food, I think Hosts are sworn/discouraged from letting players know that they are in some way directly/indirectly incentivized if players gamble more. It took a retired host to spill the beans to me. Also, in my two decades of gaming, Iíve never ever received a straight answer from a host how much food comp I am entitled to based on my play. I always ask because I always use up my upfront comps, and I always get a roundabout answer. Much like not revealing the bonus/commission answer to players, I think hosts have a code of honor to never reveal how much you can spend at a steakhouse after a huge loss or high Theo.
MDawg
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June 13th, 2023 at 8:26:42 PM permalink
As we discussed, we are not going to get into arguments over something like this, and you and I see eye to eye on many things, but I know what I know, and some of the hosts I know I've known for a quarter century or so. They don't give me any sort of sly double talk about anything, they tell me like it is.

Granted, all of this is secretive stuff that the casinos routinely ready holes in the desert for any who spill the beans, because if anyone found out it would mean the end of the industry, but still some in house hosts are ready to risk death and dismemberment to tell the truth, which is that they're all on salary only (with team bonuses, at some casinos).


By the way that article did not state that a host gets any commission. The interviewer used that word, but the host described a bonus if certain benchmarks are hit. Probably the host was over simplifying the process and not further explaining the reality - that the benchmark must be hit team wide for the entire team to get a bonus. And the benchmark, as I explained above, isn't as simple as just a certain theo. Looks like this guy wasn't afraid of the ready to fill desert holes. 😂 He talked.

Quote: MDawg

Probably the confusion is that someone told someone obliquely, "yeah we get more if our players play more" - but this refers only to team bonuses. Again, in house hosts today get salary ONLY, plus at some casinos - team bonuses such as end of year, if the team as a whole hits certain targets. And those targets aren't as simple as just "theo loss" or "actual loss."
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