robert9811
robert9811
Joined: Apr 6, 2017
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 5
January 25th, 2019 at 4:06:25 AM permalink
To the Wizard (and others):

I've been meaning to ask you the following question for some time.

I've noticed that the three online casinos you recommend for playing craps are ones that use BetSoft craps software. I've always wondered why you overlook the fact that for each and every winning bet, BetSoft software unjustifiably rounds down to the nearest $0.25. There is absolutely no reason for the software to do this. There are no physical chips that cannot be split, such as at a land casino. It's just a computer keeping a tally, which can easily keep track of the exact amount due the player.

For example, a $1 odds bet on the 6 should pay $1.20; instead, the BetSoft software rounds down to only $1. Another example: a winning $1 Buy bet on the 6 should pay $1.20 minus 5% of the bet commission, which should total $1.15. Instead, it pays only $1, again rounding down to the nearest $0.25.

Every bet that doesn't happen to payout a value that is an exact multiple of $0.25 is essentially underpaid. I find this outrageous, and I thus avoid BetSoft software.

So, again, I pose the question. Why of the three online craps casinos you recommend do each use this player-unfriendly software?
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 122
  • Posts: 12598
January 25th, 2019 at 5:57:33 AM permalink
Great question, I’ll make sure Wizard sees this and he may well pass it up the chain from there.

When you say, “Recommended for Craps,” do you mean through the Craps game on here? When I went, one of the three had Craps powered by Betsoft, but that doesn’t change your point.

I also notice that this doesn’t seem to be mentioned in the Betsoft Review, but then I could see where we wouldn’t play test every possible bet, hand, or condition on every single game. That would be time-consuming and expensive!

Also, even if Wizard had play tested it, but was betting a base bet of $5, it never would have come up.

Is this oddity stated in the Rules of the Craps games at these casinos?

In any case, I’ll PM Wizard to make sure he sees the thread.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1310
  • Posts: 21494
January 25th, 2019 at 6:21:16 AM permalink
I don't like this either. It's little consolation, but may software brands round down to the quarter, like RealtimeGaming. No, they tend to not disclose this predatory rounding in the rules.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 139
  • Posts: 17984
January 25th, 2019 at 9:07:56 AM permalink
Quote: robert9811

To the Wizard (and others):

I've been meaning to ask you the following question for some time.

I've noticed that the three online casinos you recommend for playing craps are ones that use BetSoft craps software. I've always wondered why you overlook the fact that for each and every winning bet, BetSoft software unjustifiably rounds down to the nearest $0.25. There is absolutely no reason for the software to do this. There are no physical chips that cannot be split, such as at a land casino. It's just a computer keeping a tally, which can easily keep track of the exact amount due the player.

For example, a $1 odds bet on the 6 should pay $1.20; instead, the BetSoft software rounds down to only $1. Another example: a winning $1 Buy bet on the 6 should pay $1.20 minus 5% of the bet commission, which should total $1.15. Instead, it pays only $1, again rounding down to the nearest $0.25.

Every bet that doesn't happen to payout a value that is an exact multiple of $0.25 is essentially underpaid. I find this outrageous, and I thus avoid BetSoft software.

So, again, I pose the question. Why of the three online craps casinos you recommend do each use this player-unfriendly software?

Please research BetSoft's integrity. I would be highly suspicious of any casino using their software.

They have been cheating players for years via impossible to hit top jackpots. That's only whats been proven so far. I have no doubt they were up to other hard to prove shenanigans as well.

The funny thing is, we had a member here claim he hit one of their progressives for real money. This was before the scandal broke. I called him out on it (I think it was his sock puppet that made the claim) because I was playing 100% slot bonuses on the slot progressive he claimed to hit. I had my suspicions about their slots since I played what I guessed to be many cycles on it and never hit the progressive. Not hitting the top prize didnt affect me since I had a big advantage regardless, but it would have been nice to hit. when he first claimed he hit it thought, ok I'm just running bad.

I went and looked at the progressive that he said he hit. I noticed it didn't reset or the meter move was changed to an extraordinary level, so I called him out on the situation. He admitted he didnt really hit it. IIRC he backpedaled and made up some BS about hitting it in free mode.

IMHO no one should play at a unregulated online casino unless they have a 10% advantage or more, and do not factor in top jackpots.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
robert9811
robert9811
Joined: Apr 6, 2017
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 5
January 25th, 2019 at 10:53:01 AM permalink
Thank you for your comments to the question I posed.

Mission146, you asked me what I meant by "Recommended for Craps." I was referring to the Wizard's recommendation at the Wizard of Odds site in the casino recommendations area for craps. And, yes, BetSoft does state that they round down to the nearest quarter if you read carefully through its online help for the game. I'm not accusing them of dishonesty; I'm accusing them of having a player-unfriendly game.

What I am asking, however, is why anyone would ever wish to play such a game? The house already has a nice advantage. Why add a tax to each win? It makes no sense. When playing a proper online craps casino game, one shouldn't have to worry about rounding down. If I want to bet $4 on a Place 6 (instead of the traditional $6), I should be allowed to without losing any part of the payoff. Online payoffs are just database entries in a computer, not real chips that cannot be broken.

Another craps casino software I've had problems with is Rival software's craps game. I wrote to the company pointing out that their Lay and Buy bets charge at least double the amount of commission than the posted 5%. Their craps rules for Buy and Lay bets are good, but their calculations are screwy. Their rules for Buy bets are 5% of the original bet only after a win. (That is a player-friendly rule.) Their rules for Lay bets are 5% of the payout only after a win. (That too is a player-friendly rule.) But their calculations are such that a player ends up paying much more than 5%.

For example, go to one of their casinos (using practice mode) and bet $40 on the Lay 4. After a win you should be $20 richer minus 5% commission on the $20 win (commission equals $1). Thus you should be a total of $19 richer after the win . But you are not. They have a crazy way (and incorrect way) of calculating that always favors the house. All Buy and Lay bets using Rival software suffer the same fate. Each calculates in a funny way in favor of the house. Often times one ends up paying a 10% commission, and more, without realizing it. Stay away from that game if you intend to make Buy or Lay bets!

I was writing them back and forth a few times pointing out their erroneous Buy and Lay bet calculations, but they eventually stopped responding to me. I tried their software yesterday, and it still hasn't been fixed.

It would be a real service if the Wizard would use his clout to entice some craps software makers to make a craps game that simply follows standard rules without playing games with the user. For instance, no rounding down; proper calculations; at least 3X4X5X odds, the ability to turn on and off non-contract bets; to display bet winnings that do not include the original bet.

That last item really peeves me. If I bet $10 on the pass line and win, that's a $10 win, not a $20 win. My original bet is not (should not) be included as part of my winnings! It's really annoying to be forced to keep track of winnings separately. Just display the actual winnings please, and stop playing games with the player!

I'm dreaming, of course.

  • Jump to: