Was the casino cheating?

Recently I was playing Blackjack in Aruba and not doing well at all. The game was a $10 minimum, six deck with a continuous shuffler.
As is the practice with a continuous shuffler, the dealer would play several hand and then move cards from the discard tray to the machine. After about a half hour of playing I noticed that not all of the cards were being moved to the shuffler. The dealer would leave the bottom 20 cards of so in the tray. I watched him do this four or five times and those same 20 cards remained in the tray, they were never placed into play. I became suspicious that the 20 cards contained high value cards that had the effect of increasing the house's odds. I finally spoke up and asked why not all of the cards were moved to the shuffler. He replied something along the lines of "so what" . The pit boss overheard the conversation and she also gave some lame excuse for the dealer's actions. Nonetheless, the dealer started moving all of the cards to the machine. At the same time my "luck" improved and I was able to get back to even. I then got out of Dodge just as fast as I could. What do you think, was the house cheating?

It’s certainly possible the dealer noticed a big chunk of high valued cards came out within a small section and purposely left them in the discard area (out of play).

Without knowing what was in the twenty card slug, it's useless to speculate.

It sounds suspicious to me. Especially that they started to place the discards into the shuffler once you ask about it. I would love to have the count on that block of cards left out of play.

Quote: jnewman

Recently I was playing Blackjack... I noticed that not all of the cards were being moved to the shuffler. The dealer would leave the bottom 20 cards of so in the tray.

Hmmmm. I've seen one particular dealer do this many times and never thought much of it. Maybe lazy: Maybe clever cheating for house, or players.

Interesting.

It can certainly sway the odds.

Cheating? Only if it was deliberate.

Probably more like laziness.

But I’d keep an eye out for that type of thing if I ever play on a CSM table.

I think you're right. I seem to remember a clump of 10s coming out but can't tell you if they were placed in an empty tray. I don't mind playing with a continous shuffler since I'm a basic strategy player. It actually improves the odds a tiny bit since there is no deviation from basic strategy. I plan to watch for this type of behavior in the future although I don't plan to play at this particular casino in the future.

What possible legitimate reason could a dealer have for leaving a clump of cards in the discard tray, except cheating.

Biggest drawback of a CSM for BS players is you play more hands per hour. For a player such as yourself, the few minutes an hour when the cards are being shuffled represent the only time the game is EV positive for you. Each hand, the house is favored so playing more hands helps the house. Just be sure to sit out a few hands an hour.

Quote: Greasyjohn

What possible legitimate reason could a dealer have for leaving a clump of cards in the discard tray, except cheating.

None. It would actually be more difficult to purposely leave certain cards in the discard tray than to simply grab them all.

I'm not sure it was cheating but it is highly sketchy and bad customer service. The snarky "So what? "Remark when you pointed out that sketchy actions was really unprofessional.

Quote: Greasyjohn

What possible legitimate reason could a dealer have for leaving a clump of cards in the discard tray, except cheating.

Not necessarily a legitimate reason, but laziness is a feasible excuse.

Grab the cards and accidentally not get them all? It’s possible. But doing it repeatedly? That’s where it gets fishy.

While you obviously can't prove anything since you don't have the "value" of the cards in the slug, this is absolutely shady and suspicious as can be. I agree with RS that it's actually MORE work for the dealer to intentionally leave those cards in the discard tray, thus it's not laziness... which means the dealer is working ever so slightly "harder" so there must be a reason. All signs point to shady...

If you're a local there, you should absolutely get a hidden camera, record the cards, and if they are in fact keeping the big cards out of the shuffler then that is cheating. If you can record this a couple times for full blown proof you'd have one hell of a lawsuit against them.

Quote: Romes

While you obviously can't prove anything since you don't have the "value" of the cards in the slug, this is absolutely shady and suspicious as can be. I agree with RS that it's actually MORE work for the dealer to intentionally leave those cards in the discard tray, thus it's not laziness... which means the dealer is working ever so slightly "harder" so there must be a reason. All signs point to shady...

If you're a local there, you should absolutely get a hidden camera, record the cards, and if they are in fact keeping the big cards out of the shuffler then that is cheating. If you can record this a couple times for full blown proof you'd have one hell of a lawsuit against them.

Indeed. Although, he did say it's in Aruba. I'd first try to figure out how possible it is to sue them. Some places aren't necessarily known for having an actual gaming commission and things being done "properly". Idk anything about Aruba to be honest, but sounds like a shady place to begin with.

Quote: RS

Indeed. Although, he did say it's in Aruba. I'd first try to figure out how possible it is to sue them. Some places aren't necessarily known for having an actual gaming commission and things being done "properly". Idk anything about Aruba to be honest, but sounds like a shady place to begin with.

I agree that this is shady. What's even more shadier is the fact that the game "Magically," got better once he spoke up about the shady practice.