CasinoCrasher
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August 16th, 2018 at 10:17:53 AM permalink
I understand that The Wizard and many others aspire to become professional gamblers one day. If you were to start today, what would be your game of choice, what strategies would you employ and why?
FleaStiff
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August 16th, 2018 at 10:26:42 AM permalink
Well, I used to claim to be a professional keno player until one poor soul actually took me seriously.

I'd think its somewhat like that Tom Paxton tune about a bottle of wine ... "let me go home and start over". Ain't gonna happen but if I could, I'd just focus on getting rich. Nothing helps a professional gambler more than a steady income source.

I'd then choose either Pai Gow Poker or Pai Gow Tiles
TigerWu
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August 16th, 2018 at 10:31:03 AM permalink
Tiles and Baccarat.

Of course, I would have to already be rich, with all the money I would inevitably lose.

Maybe when I'm retired I'll tell people I'm a professional gambler.
Wizard
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August 16th, 2018 at 10:43:18 AM permalink
I think bonus hunting online is still worth doing. Many more sites are open to Americans and have good bonuses.

I would also be flexible to do anything, which usually is some kind of promotion abuse. It helps to be connected to a group if you go that direction.
ďExtraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.Ē -- Carl Sagan
djatc
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Romes
August 16th, 2018 at 11:41:49 AM permalink
Professional Blurnsball handicapper
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TigerWu
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August 16th, 2018 at 12:17:12 PM permalink
A number of years ago I was unemployed for a few months, and the only income I had was from an occasional local poker game where I would win $20-$100 a month. I thought of myself as a professional poker player for that time.

Quote: djatc

Professional Blurnsball handicapper



I'm going to be a 43-man Squamish bookie.
PokerGrinder
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August 16th, 2018 at 12:20:10 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

A number of years ago I was unemployed for a few months, and the only income I had was from an occasional local poker game where I would win $20-$100 a month. I thought of myself as a professional poker player for that time.

Quote: djatc

Professional Blurnsball handicapper



I'm going to be a 43-man Squamish bookie.


$20-$100 a month lol, you should have kept going. Youíd be rich by now 😂
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. ó Amarillo Slim Preston
TigerWu
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August 16th, 2018 at 12:51:29 PM permalink
Quote: PokerGrinder


$20-$100 a month lol, you should have kept going. Youíd be rich by now 😂



Ha.... it was like a $1-$2 game or something, played mostly for fun.

No way I'd sit down at a real poker table in a casino. It's just not my game.
unJon
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August 16th, 2018 at 12:59:31 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Ha.... it was like a $1-$2 game or something, played mostly for fun.

No way I'd sit down at a real poker table in a casino. It's just not my game.

Poker is not a game. Itís war.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
gordonm888
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August 16th, 2018 at 1:33:23 PM permalink
1. Fantasy football. Draft Kings, etc. Lots of professional gamblers have migrated there

2. (Weird answer) Sports betting: Women's professional tennis.

3. Pot-limit omaha, or poker games other than Texas hold'em.

4. Sports betting: any sport where I could get inside info on injuries.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
PokerGrinder
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August 16th, 2018 at 1:45:28 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Ha.... it was like a $1-$2 game or something, played mostly for fun.

No way I'd sit down at a real poker table in a casino. It's just not my game.


I was just joking around 😊
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. ó Amarillo Slim Preston
Lovecomps
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August 16th, 2018 at 2:20:35 PM permalink
Maybe this isn't the sort of answer that you might be looking for,, but I'd come up with a system for craps or other games (never mind any mathematical flaws), and sell it/them to others who are eager to believe in them.
Last edited by: Lovecomps on Aug 16, 2018
The best things in life are not free.
TigerWu
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August 16th, 2018 at 2:29:57 PM permalink
Quote: Lovecomps

Maybe this isn't the sort of anger that you might be looking for,, but I'd come up with a system for craps or other games (never mind any mathematical flaws), and sell it/them to others who are eager to believe in them.



Ooh, yeah, I like that idea... I'm gonna steal it. ;)
TomG
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August 16th, 2018 at 6:21:17 PM permalink
If I was 21 and knew very little about casinos and gambling I would start with blackjack. Do it similar to Zenking. Itís the one game where all the information is easily available. Can start small and keep scaling upwards for a long time. A couple major differences from ZK though. A willingness and drive to find and add new opportunities. Can start with 25-cent 9-5-3-2-2-1 Deuces Wild on day one. And then just keep working to find more and more ways to earn more and more profits. Also find a job with the best, most enjoyable, most relaxing working conditions regardless of pay. It can be hard to be in the workforce and put in enough hours in a casino. It can also be hard to live off the casino without putting in hours in the workforce. So find a way to actually enjoy doing shifts at both places. Also consider Reno or Mesquite instead of Las Vegas
MrV
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Mosca
August 16th, 2018 at 7:48:51 PM permalink
Some might argue that casino gambling is for chumps and small timers.

The real gambling gets done in the stock and real estate markets.

Buy low, sell high.
"What, me worry?"
Sandybestdog
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August 16th, 2018 at 9:24:01 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

If I was 21 and knew very little about casinos and gambling I would start with blackjack. Do it similar to Zenking. Itís the one game where all the information is easily available. Can start small and keep scaling upwards for a long time. A couple major differences from ZK though. A willingness and drive to find and add new opportunities. Can start with 25-cent 9-5-3-2-2-1 Deuces Wild on day one. And then just keep working to find more and more ways to earn more and more profits. Also find a job with the best, most enjoyable, most relaxing working conditions regardless of pay. It can be hard to be in the workforce and put in enough hours in a casino. It can also be hard to live off the casino without putting in hours in the workforce. So find a way to actually enjoy doing shifts at both places. Also consider Reno or Mesquite instead of Las Vegas

I may personally disagree with this. Though I have never counted cards, I would imagine though that it would be pretty easy for the casino to catch you. If you are playing without a card and/or non-locally and can easily leave when heat approaches without giving up ID, this may be ok. However if you play with a card, this can come back to haunt you. Not because you may not be able to play blackjack or you may lose a casino, but because you may lose something far worse - your name. I learned this the hard way and made mistakes early on that I can't change. It's no big deal to get backed off counting, but if your players card is taken away, that can hurt you with other opportunities. If you get flyered all over town and suddenly not welcome at a casino you've hardly played at, never found an opportunity, and possibly a lifetime loser at, it hurts you. This is even more true with casino chains. You lose one and often you lose them all. Your name is your most important asset.
djatc
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August 17th, 2018 at 12:28:10 AM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

I may personally disagree with this. Though I have never counted cards, I would imagine though that it would be pretty easy for the casino to catch you. If you are playing without a card and/or non-locally and can easily leave when heat approaches without giving up ID, this may be ok. However if you play with a card, this can come back to haunt you. Not because you may not be able to play blackjack or you may lose a casino, but because you may lose something far worse - your name. I learned this the hard way and made mistakes early on that I can't change. It's no big deal to get backed off counting, but if your players card is taken away, that can hurt you with other opportunities. If you get flyered all over town and suddenly not welcome at a casino you've hardly played at, never found an opportunity, and possibly a lifetime loser at, it hurts you. This is even more true with casino chains. You lose one and often you lose them all. Your name is your most important asset.



I think he means using a card on machines. At low levels it's worthwhile to put some play in places, since you'll be under the radar.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
CasinoCrasher
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August 19th, 2018 at 12:27:32 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think bonus hunting online is still worth doing. Many more sites are open to Americans and have good bonuses.

I would also be flexible to do anything, which usually is some kind of promotion abuse. It helps to be connected to a group if you go that direction.



You responded to a question about becoming a professional gambler that you posted on your Wizard of Odds site were you stated ďin my opinion you need a bankroll of at least three times the annual income you are accustomed toĒ. How did you come up with this figure? Also, please show any math associated with it if you would be so kind.
Lovecomps
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August 19th, 2018 at 2:07:04 PM permalink
Poker, no question, but not in Vegas. That's the big leagues with all the big names and people who do it for a living. I'm good at the game, but know my limitations. I'm an hour from the casinos in Blackawk-the minor leagues for sure, but I'd be good enough to play well there.

Also, I cannot get past the I thought that Vegas poker has tons of collusion going on between the players. I doubt that goes on up in the mountains here.
The best things in life are not free.
TomG
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August 19th, 2018 at 3:58:05 PM permalink
Quote: djatc

I think he means using a card on machines. At low levels it's worthwhile to put some play in places, since you'll be under the radar.



What's crazy is that in my original response I said absolutely nothing about using a players card. And then the disagreement comes after admitting zero experience. Either quoted the wrong person, poor reading/skimming skills, or like most of us is just an innate drive to disagree with everything on the internet

-----

On using a players card on blackjack: I always do and never have a problem because I keep frequency, duration, and max bets fairly low. For a hypothetical early 20s just starting out knowing nothing, I would say use it. A new player should take a little while to move past a $5 to $50 spread and at that level it's rare to get much heat or pushback. And staying at that level for a while to practice and build a bankroll might mean $100,000 to $200,000 or more in total action. Playing rated during that time should be worth at least an extra month of income with very little risk. And can learn comp hustling that has been talked about a lot here, which opens more doors. And once I start slowing increasing max bet, I can constantly be reevaluating the value of playing rated versus playing anonymously.
WatchMeWin
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TomG
August 19th, 2018 at 4:43:41 PM permalink
Supplimental
Poker ... slow n steady. High probability hands. Wait for that slow pitch.
Craps .. hit n run. Fool the variance. High probabability outcomes scenarios.

Primary
Stocks, real estate, venture capital.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
Rigondeaux
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August 19th, 2018 at 5:05:58 PM permalink
Poker is good if you have a smaller BR. You could probably move to a hot spot with like 10k and grind out a living as you look for other opportunities or perhaps move up on stakes.

However it is quite hard to move up in stakes in live poker. If you are doing butt sex to 1/2 without lube you make about $20/hr.

I'd say you need at least 25k to really play 2/5 with any comfort. So that's gonna take a while unless you live with mom and dad.

Vegas has worse games than many places but a low cost of living and solid comps for poker players. You can get a diamond card and have a healthy meal for free each day. The promos can be good too. Rn the Venetian has one worth $9.00 an hr if you are not clueless and prob $12 if you are at all sharp.

Cons: poker is not a robot game like most other AP. There is a very good chance you do not have the capacity to be very good.

It is also a game with a lot of nuance that takes a lot of time to learn.

Poker is not easy scalable. 10/20 is harder than 1/2. Blackjack vp and sports are just as easy at any limit though you might struggle to get the action you want. But that's better than getting crushed.
djatc
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ontariodealer
August 19th, 2018 at 5:31:07 PM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin


Craps .. hit n run. Fool the variance. High probabability outcomes scenarios.



ya almost had a good post there
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djatc
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August 19th, 2018 at 5:31:42 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

If you are doing butt sex to 1/2 without lube you make about $20/hr.



you might need to stop fasting
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
Mosca
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August 19th, 2018 at 5:31:56 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Some might argue that casino gambling is for chumps and small timers.

The real gambling gets done in the stock and real estate markets.

Buy low, sell high.



This.
NO KILL I
Sandybestdog
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August 20th, 2018 at 1:44:00 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

What's crazy is that in my original response I said absolutely nothing about using a players card. And then the disagreement comes after admitting zero experience. Either quoted the wrong person, poor reading/skimming skills, or like most of us is just an innate drive to disagree with everything on the internet

-----

On using a players card on blackjack: I always do and never have a problem because I keep frequency, duration, and max bets fairly low. For a hypothetical early 20s just starting out knowing nothing, I would say use it. A new player should take a little while to move past a $5 to $50 spread and at that level it's rare to get much heat or pushback. And staying at that level for a while to practice and build a bankroll might mean $100,000 to $200,000 or more in total action. Playing rated during that time should be worth at least an extra month of income with very little risk. And can learn comp hustling that has been talked about a lot here, which opens more doors. And once I start slowing increasing max bet, I can constantly be reevaluating the value of playing rated versus playing anonymously.

I was referring to what you said about Zenking. Isnít he primarily a blackjack counter? Iím just sharing my opinion. I personally donít see any benefit to using a players card at the tables. Even betting $10 you can get labeled a skilled player and get flyered all over town. Youíll walk into a casino 3 hours away, swipe your card, not do anything at all and suddenly be surrounded by suits.

What do you get in return? A dollar or two an hour in comps? Maybe a free room? I just donít think itís worth it. Others may. Youíll get 5x the benefits and almost 0 heat playing slots. Forgoing the benefits on the tables will translate to longevity on slots. I wish I could go back and change things I did in the past. Now, Iíll gladly pay for that free sandwich if I could fly under the radar and keep my players card.
FleaStiff
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August 20th, 2018 at 4:10:35 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Some might argue that casino gambling is for chumps and small timers.
The real gambling gets done in the stock and real estate markets.

Not quite true. Kids playing poker for matchsticks is just as 'real' as any other form of wagering. The match stick accumulator may go on to even become a securities speculator or real estate magnate or casino owner (or player), it makes little difference.
Rigondeaux
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August 20th, 2018 at 4:18:38 PM permalink
Also o.o think most of the moneymaker on wall street is by touting
billryan
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August 20th, 2018 at 4:24:29 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Also o.o think most of the moneymaker on wall street is by touting



The real money is in front running but we all know that's never done.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
TomG
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August 21st, 2018 at 7:55:10 PM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

I was referring to what you said about Zenking. Isnít he primarily a blackjack counter? Iím just sharing my opinion. I personally donít see any benefit to using a players card at the tables. Even betting $10 you can get labeled a skilled player and get flyered all over town. Youíll walk into a casino 3 hours away, swipe your card, not do anything at all and suddenly be surrounded by suits.



That has never once happened in the entire history of casino games. An extra dollar or two per hour, plus rooms and meals can be fairly significant. Especially for someone just entering a field that has an extremely high failure / burnout rate. And especially when the risk (based on the example you came up with) is near zero.
CasinoCrasher
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August 23rd, 2018 at 10:00:21 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think bonus hunting online is still worth doing. Many more sites are open to Americans and have good bonuses.

I would also be flexible to do anything, which usually is some kind of promotion abuse. It helps to be connected to a group if you go that direction.



You responded to a question about becoming a professional gambler that you posted on your Wizard of Odds site were you stated ďin my opinion you need a bankroll of at least three times the annual income you are accustomed toĒ. How did you come up with this figure? Also, please show any math associated with it if you would be so kind.
Sandybestdog
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August 23rd, 2018 at 6:16:24 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

That has never once happened in the entire history of casino games. An extra dollar or two per hour, plus rooms and meals can be fairly significant. Especially for someone just entering a field that has an extremely high failure / burnout rate. And especially when the risk (based on the example you came up with) is near zero.

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree on agreeing that you are correct about me being wrong about disagreeing with you.

On last weeks episode of GWAE thereís a question starting around minute 20 about forgoing comps to play unrated and playing slots to make up for it. Richard basically concluded that it will probably be ok to play tables rated but donít think that canít end up costing you at another casino where you have only played machines and havenít even walked by the tables. Just my opinion and what I do. Feel free to disagree.
AxelWolf
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August 23rd, 2018 at 6:31:28 PM permalink
Quote: CasinoCrasher

ďin my opinion you need a bankroll of at least three times the annual income you are accustomed toĒ. .

In general I that's absurd as far as I'm concerned. I suppose there are many factors to consider. I have no doubt he was thinking of a few specific situations when he said that.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
TomG
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August 23rd, 2018 at 6:44:41 PM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

On last weeks episode of GWAE thereís a question starting around minute 20 about forgoing comps to play unrated and playing slots to make up for it. Richard basically concluded that it will probably be ok to play tables rated but donít think that canít end up costing you at another casino where you have only played machines and havenít even walked by the tables. Just my opinion and what I do. Feel free to disagree.



They weren't talking about someone betting $10 like in the example you used
Sandybestdog
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August 23rd, 2018 at 10:56:51 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

They weren't talking about someone betting $10 like in the example you used

Everyone of my back off's have been when I had no more than a $25 bet. Most occurred when I was down. I was once approached by a suit an hour after buying $100 into a limit poker table and told they don't want my action. This was all carded play. I have had 0 back off's while not using a card.
TomG
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August 24th, 2018 at 5:31:05 AM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

Everyone of my back off's have been when I had no more than a $25 bet. Most occurred when I was down. I was once approached by a suit an hour after buying $100 into a limit poker table and told they don't want my action. This was all carded play. I have had 0 back off's while not using a card.



That last sentence proves why your theory of never using a card is complete bullshit. If you ever do get flagged, just stop using a players card and the problem is solved. But still keep the extra $3,000 - $5,000 you earned before that.

There has to be more to this story. Backed off from live poker? Never counted cards, but labeled as a skilled blackjack player?
Sandybestdog
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August 24th, 2018 at 10:56:34 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

That last sentence proves why your theory of never using a card is complete bullshit. If you ever do get flagged, just stop using a players card and the problem is solved. But still keep the extra $3,000 - $5,000 you earned before that.

There has to be more to this story. Backed off from live poker? Never counted cards, but labeled as a skilled blackjack player?

I have had 0 back off's while not using a players card at the table. It's generally not worth it to play slots without a card. Tables yes, slots no. How are you supposed to know you are flagged until it's too late? My comps were frozen and all offers taken away at one place. I inquired about it. I was told I'm a skilled player at blackjack. I said but I earned those comps playing video poker. They said it doesn't matter, you played blackjack a year ago. At that point I left because it wasn't worth playing the slot promotion without comps. I have the conversation on tape if you don't believe me. I've got a half dozen more stories just like that. It all stems from one place flyering you. So I wouldn't just put out blanket statements to people telling them it's ok to use a card at the table as long as you are betting red chips. Go to a UTH, 3CP, Mississippi Stud table. Put up a $10 bet. Don't put anything on the trips bet and don't put $1 on the progressive. The players will deride you. The pit boss will notice you. The dealer will point out everytime you would have won. You will stick out like a sore thumb and be labeled a skilled player.

Again going back to what Richard said. Go in and wear a hat while playing slots with a card. Leave the casino, go back without a hat and play tables without a card. That's what I do now. I can't afford anymore cards getting shut down.
billryan
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August 24th, 2018 at 12:11:57 PM permalink
My experiences are much closer to Tom Gs than yours.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.

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