Cycling Shufflers

So how do those cycling shufflers really work? I'm really interested in how they work as opposed to how they probably work. I am especially interested since they use this for card craps. I have read that it helps it lean towards the don'ts or the player can have an advantage by counting cards. Any information would be appreciated.

http://discountgambling.net/playcraps/

Scroll down to the section called "Effect of the CSM". About 5 PgDn for me.

The terminology is a little complicated. Is there a way to verify the information with the shufflers is correct? Also, it is hard to understand how that buffering and chute stuff means.

Stephen, the guy who writes that blog, seems to have some inside knowledge about the goings-on at that casino. He talks to the staff a lot, but he might also know a games manufacturer (he has a lot of information about how the games work). I would trust his material, especially since he uses it himself to play playcraps. His results provide empirical evidence the his understanding of the shufflers is correct.

You could go to his site and post a comment, asking for a better explanation from him if you are really interested in learning how it works. I would just practice his method using his java simulator, then go play.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is correct, but some of the terms are defined clearly to someone who is not familiar with some of the math terms etc... It's odd how people know how slots work (random number generators?) but there seems to be little to no information on how those cycling shufflers work (that can be verified). There also seems to be a lot of information missing as to how deep each shelf is etc... and how often cards get cycled back etc... (from memory from reading it last time). Is this the only source of information out there concerning these shufflers? A dealer in California told me that cards don't get cycled back that often. I'm not sure who to listen to.

Quote: dwheatley

Stephen, the guy who writes that blog, seems to have some inside knowledge about the goings-on at that casino. He talks to the staff a lot, but he might also know a games manufacturer (he has a lot of information about how the games work). I would trust his material, especially since he uses it himself to play playcraps. His results provide empirical evidence the his understanding of the shufflers is correct.

You could go to his site and post a comment, asking for a better explanation from him if you are really interested in learning how it works. I would just practice his method using his java simulator, then go play.

I just read this somewhere - if this is true, then how can card counting for craps work?
How A CSM Works.
After a hand is over the cards just used are placed back into the shuffler to be mixed with the other cards in the shoe. Shuffle Master’s King uses an elevator system to randomize the cards. As the elevator is moved up and down, cards are randomly inserted into one of the 19 shelves in the elevator. The shuffler randomly selects a shelf of cards to deliver into the shoe. Because of the non-linear process, every discard re-inserted following a hand has a chance of appearing in the next round.

Quote: focd

I just read this somewhere - if this is true, then how can card counting for craps work?
How A CSM Works.
After a hand is over the cards just used are placed back into the shuffler to be mixed with the other cards in the shoe. Shuffle Master’s King uses an elevator system to randomize the cards. As the elevator is moved up and down, cards are randomly inserted into one of the 19 shelves in the elevator. The shuffler randomly selects a shelf of cards to deliver into the shoe. Because of the non-linear process, every discard re-inserted following a hand has a chance of appearing in the next round.

I worked at Shufflemaster for a couple of years and the above statement is true.

It's weird with all these electronics people/companies that make these shufflers that there appears to be information that is so limited - also unconfirmed - as to how these things work. Do they have something they want to hide? I mean people know how slots work. Also, just curious - when did these shufflers first appear? I started playing around 1999-2000. Are these things considered new? By that I mean it just appeared the last decade or so?

Quote: focd

when did these shufflers first appear?

According to ShuffleMaster's About us page, the inventor got the idea in 1982. ShuffleMaster got involved in 1992. Five years of very slow growth followed, with only 500 units installed.

To stimulate sales and interest, ShuffleMaster invented a game that relied on the shuffler: Let It Ride.

Based on that, rather sketchy timeline, it's safe to say that the shufflers started to make major impact after 1997.

Today, ShuffleMaster has over 22,000 units installed.



Fortunately for ShuffleMaster, Let It Ride was a hit. One wonders what would have happened to the company, and the shufflers, if it was a dud.

The ShuffleMaster patents are also publicly available via the USPTO website or several other sources, such as Google patents. Many of those have very specific details as to the inner workings of the machines including schematics and flowcharts. e.g. U.S. Pat. No. 7,261,294.