practice games at online casinos the same as when you play for real?

Dear Wizard,

First of all, thank you for making this website and grinding out all the painstaking math required to come up with these wonderful tables to help players reduce the house edge against them as much as possible!

So a few years ago I played at las vegas usa since I saw many sites recommending them as reputable and fair. I started with their practice game for blackjack, decided to make a log of my plays and did quite well. So thinking I can repeat this I put in about $1000 bucks... needless to say, using the same exact strategy that I did on the practice games I burned through that in about 10 hours or so of play. I kinda felt cheated, but it is gambling, anything can happen right? I didn't really have the data to back it up, it could just be dumb luck. Afterall, casino's do have the house edge against you right?

So a few weeks ago a buddy and I were discussing versions of the martingale... I know, it's a failed system... yeah, yeah. But, I looked into another casino that had reputable reviews and found SLOTS.LV. I've been using my new "modified" betting system (with your exact table for how to play the hands), started up a new log file of each of the runs, and have been making a killing. I mean I was hoping to be successful but after 3750 hands of play in 43 play-troughs my running total is up $7274. That seems way, way too successful.

It got me thinking; perhaps these online casinos' can't rig their actual games otherwise they would be found out, eventually, then shut down, which would be bad for business... But, what if their FREE TO PLAY versions of blackjack are rigged. Legally since they aren't stealing from people they aren't breaking the law, however they get people thinking they can easily win by manipulating the rng to entice them to the PLAY FOR REAL MONEY option.

I read that you have tested out numerous systems to feel confident that RNG for these casino's are on the up and up to give them your stamp but, does that also go for their practice games?

Thanks in advance for your time,
Jason

Hi Jason, and welcome to the forums.

You're indeed correct that with the free version of the game the legalities kind of go out the window. They can program the games to have player advantages and then when the player goes to the real money version they could be playing with a normal house advantage. This DOES actually happen online, though it's not every site, in my experience it is most sites. So basically the "free play versions" is never a good place to practice something or gather data about a system because most of them are gaffed to let the player win so they'll play for real money.

Where would you recommend some good places that you can play their practice version that is the EXACT same as their real money version? I feel any tampering with their systems, even their free ones is a deceptive business practice and they should be added to blacklists. Or at the very least they should have to state it's not a 6 deck shoe on the practice version but something else.

If you do some searching on this site this subject has been discussed a few times. IIRC even The Wizard has commented on the subject and he too thinks it's a deceptive practice.


I do believe that slots LV is part of the Bodog/Bovada group, a group that is advertised heavily.

I suggest that you show your data.

I would never trust an unregulated casino to be 100% random when using fake money play or real money play.

That's not to say you cant gain an advantage or win. I just think the HA is significantly higher than the math would indicate, especially when you start ramping up your bets.

If you plan on testing for real money just use a buy-in bonus at slots.LV. Can you even play there from the U.S. nowadays?

Quote: Romes

You're indeed correct that with the free version of the game the legalities kind of go out the window.

agree 100%
recent data collected by me is 1,614 poker hands played at wsop.com
I have seen 36 quads (4 of a kind) dealt in that short time in their freeroll freezout events
(in free play mode many players mention this too since a software change was implemented recently. I saw 4 quads there in just 75 hands played!!)

now to the freerolls
only 4 times there was 3 oak on board and the player had the 4th
but the other 32 times were pocket pairs getting the other 2

happened today (at high noon) in 9 hands
one lucky person (as I reviewed the video) got 5 hands in a row with an Ace, then went all-in with 2 Aces
flop came, as it normally does, A7A

lol
online gambling is a double gamble
stay away forever, i say

I say
sports betting is still way ok, imo
Sally

Quote: AxelWolf

If you do some searching on this site this subject has been discussed a few times. IIRC even The Wizard has commented on the subject and he too thinks it's a deceptive practice.

I did some searches but apparently just didn't hit on the right words or at least unable to narrow down. Used things like "practice games", "rigged practice", "fake practice", etc

Quote: AxelWolf

I do believe that slots LV is part of the Bodog/Bovada group, a group that is advertised heavily.

I suggest that you show your data.

I would be more than happy to somehow to attach my spreadsheet of my series win/losses/hands played of my modified martingale. I just don't know if anyone would really want to have their browser clogged up with 44 spreadsheet lines of cells of figures.

Quote: AxelWolf

That's not to say you cant gain an advantage or win. I just think the HA is significantly higher than the math would indicate, especially when you start ramping up your bets.

Again, my concern doesn't really have anything to do with the House Advantage. My concern is being to play the practice game that is THE EXACT same as the real money game. Win or lose, I feel I just want them to be identical.

Jason