VLT video poker
If you throw away a winning hand with a class ll you will get a like hand on the re deal. So if you threw 3 of a kind away you would be dealt another 3 of a kind. Class ll does not use a RNG but is a bingo game in reality. Some class ll will have a daub button instead of a draw button. Some even have a bingo sticker in the corner. You only want to play class lll as there is no skill in class ll.
I would ask the players reward center what type of games they are.
Quote: vegasI would ask the players reward center what type of games they are.
You could also ask them to explain particle physics. You'll get the same quality reply.
Quote: sabreYou could also ask them to explain particle physics. You'll get the same quality reply.
LOL
Quote: CrystalMathLouisiana VP is random, but they limit the return to 94% and they have some max bet and max win regulations.
94%?
why does vpfree list Harrahs new Orleans with higher payables?
Quote: 100xOdds94%?
why does vpfree list Harrahs new Orleans with higher payables?
There are maybe 3 or 4 different jurisdictions in Louisiana. Regular casinos are limited to 99.9% return while the VLTs, which are available at truck stops, bars, and race tracks, are limited to 94%.
All of them are Class III, though.
Quote: 100xOdds94%?
why does vpfree list Harrahs new Orleans with higher payables?
That's a casino, not a bar or a truck stop. Casinos are allowed to have paybacks up to 100% in Louisiana.
But VP at bars or truck stops are limited to 94% in LA like crystal math says, so paytables are very poor, but they still behave like VP machines in Nevada and many other casino states.
Quote: tringlomaneBut VP at bars or truck stops are limited to 94% in LA like crystal math says, so paytables are very poor, but they still behave like VP machines in Nevada and many other casino states.
interesting.
so if Class II machines can be random, why do some states (ie: NY) have them behave as bingo pull tables?
Quote: 100xOddsinteresting.
so if Class II machines can be random, why do some states (ie: NY) have them behave as bingo pull tables?
Electronic bingo is random. It just doesn't behave like a standard poker deck for VP. As for why New York doesn't allow Vegas style VP in their racinos, I have no idea. Politicans think that version is less addictive?
Maryland casinos are also technically VLTs because they are regulated by the lottery commission. But they behave exactly like Vegas machines.
Quote: billryanWhat happens on a VLT if you are dealt a a Royal and throw away the Queen, holding the others?
Well, IGT tends to autolock dealt royals, so that's a bad example, but let's say it doesn't auto hold dealt royals.
But generally it depends on the jurisdiction and even the machine itself.
Some VLTs behave like Vegas so tossing a queen would be devastating and you cost yourself a royal.
For those that are Class II (electronic bingo) or virtual pull tabs (NY racinos/Washington state), then tossing the queen doesn't hurt you. Either a "magic genie" will change your cards to a royal of another suit. Or it will offer some other bonus featture will award you the same amount as the royal you should have held.
Quote: CrystalMathThere are maybe 3 or 4 different jurisdictions in Louisiana. Regular casinos are limited to 99.9% return while the VLTs, which are available at truck stops, bars, and race tracks, are limited to 94%.
All of them are Class III, though.
Thanks everyone for the help. I found 2 99.66 payback Bonus Poker machines(1-2-3-4-5-8-35-35-35-50-800) at Diamondjacks Bossier City Louisiana and figured they might be the VLT variety. Thanks for clearing the air. I reported them to VP Free and they are listed now.
Just a suggestion for the future....Quote: dahoss2002Thanks everyone for the help. I found 2 99.66 payback Bonus Poker machines(1-2-3-4-5-8-35-35-35-50-800) at Diamondjacks Bossier City Louisiana and figured they might be the VLT variety. Thanks for clearing the air. I reported them to VP Free and they are listed now.
If you want to KEEP 99.66 paybacks around, don't report them to VPFREE or VP anything. Its best to keep that stuff to yourself and possibly share among people you know. Once the masses find out about good games there is a much higher chance they get burnt and taken out. Most people won't take the time to search the casino for good VP, but if you make it easy for them by adding all the good VP to a database they will certainly use that information. VPFREE dating back to Skip's page has been very detrimental to Advantage Players in helping to kill the golden goose.
Why? If the pay back is good enough and there is a good reason to play I don't know why it would make a difference.Quote: vegasYou only want to play class lll as there is no skill in class ll.
If I had to run coin in on a 99% class 2 that wouldn't allow me to make a mistake VS a 99% class 3 where I could make mistakes. I'll take the class 2 all day long.
AP's really have no freedom when it comes to playing VP. You play by a strategy.
I can see a problem if you were playing a class 2 and there was a promotion where they gave a bonus for particular hands. For example there has been a number of 4 to the Royal promotions that paid a bonus but only if you had no winning combinations.
Quote: AxelWolfWhy? If the pay back is good enough and there is a good reason to play I don't know why it would make a difference.
If I had to run coin in on a 99% class 2 that wouldn't allow me to make a mistake VS a 99% class 3 where I could make mistakes. I'll take the class 2 all day long.
AP's really have no freedom when it comes to playing VP. You play by a strategy.
I can see a problem if you were playing a class 2 and there was a promotion where they gave a bonus for particular hands. For example there has been a number of 4 to the Royal promotions that paid a bonus but only if you had no winning combinations.
wait.. so if a class II vp (bingo pull tab) machine has 10/7 DB (100.17%), then it really will pay out 100.17%?!
Quote: 100xOddswait.. so if a class II vp (bingo pull tab) machine has 10/7 DB (100.17%), then it really will pay out 100.17%?!
That's the problem. I wouldn't trust it as I don't know enough about the regulations for ClassII facsimiles of live games.
I have no clue how they do all that, I haven't really played them enough. But I think it depends on the state regulations. I have seen what I assume is class ll with what would add up to be a 110% payback, so obviously that'a bogus.Quote: 100xOddswait.. so if a class II vp (bingo pull tab) machine has 10/7 DB (100.17%), then it really will pay out 100.17%?!
I have seen some VP outside of NV that were 10/6 JOB. I always wondered if they could be "real" or they were non random. Even if they were random they wouldn't have been that lucrative unless there was a promo or something, but none ever came up.
Quote: AxelWolfI have seen some VP outside of NV that were 10/6 JOB.
Are you sure it wasn't just mislabeled? I've looked at JoB pay tables and found them to actually be Bonus Poker Deluxe instead. Usually on very cheap games, nickel or less.
I'm 100% sure because I messed around with them..but this was many years ago when it was actually a possibility to find such a game. IIRC it was In California possibly AZ. PS there was nothing strange about them other than the payable.Quote: IbeatyouracesAre you sure it wasn't just mislabeled? I've looked at JoB pay tables and found them to actually be Bonus Poker Deluxe instead. Usually on very cheap games, nickel or less.
I haven't seen much in the vpfree database that isn't common knowledge including 99.66% video poker. And the forum administrator there regularly reminds people not to report anything that would be detrimental to themselves or the video poker community if they publicize it.Quote: AxelWolfJust a suggestion for the future....
If you want to KEEP 99.66 paybacks around, don't report them to VPFREE or VP anything. Its best to keep that stuff to yourself and possibly share among people you know. Once the masses find out about good games there is a much higher chance they get burnt and taken out. Most people won't take the time to search the casino for good VP, but if you make it easy for them by adding all the good VP to a database they will certainly use that information. VPFREE dating back to Skip's page has been very detrimental to Advantage Players in helping to kill the golden goose.
Quote: 100xOddswait.. so if a class II vp (bingo pull tab) machine has 10/7 DB (100.17%), then it really will pay out 100.17%?!
No, bingo games are set like slots where you have no idea about the pay back. The paytable means nothing.
Ya that "policy" over there was implemented long ago due to some heat and backlash renegading original prominent members keeping juicy stuff for themselves meanwhile expecting others to contribute.Quote: AKT60I haven't seen much in the vpfree database that isn't common knowledge including 99.66% video poker. And the forum administrator there regularly reminds people not to report anything that would be detrimental to themselves or the video poker community if they publicize it.
I'm not sure what's going on over there nowadays I rarely if ever visit anymore. I used to visit often pre 99 or whatever. Before everyone and their brother could easily get free information at their fingertips. I tried my best to beg people not to spread really good information and kill the golden goose. That site and The Stallion(Eliot, god rest his soul) was the main reason all the 103% All American VP in Kansas City suddenly disappeared. That place was a gold mine. I guess it's fun to egotistically talk about stuff even if you're not playing it.
I'll never understand why he felt the need to expose good information and whatever BS, other than the fact that it wasn't him that came up with the plays himself, being that he was employed by someone and he/they made the same amount either way.
A few confirmed Casino employees(management) got helpful information of what promotions NOT to run. Darksiders got information and inspiration by prowling that site.
Guys working both sides used to target promotions and whatnot(Information oftentimes gathered from websites and through the grapevines), and are now they are heavily targeting Free Play, bounce back and mail offers. One tactic they are using is fear mongering Via consulting, seminars and articles. They take a few rare incidents and blow them greatly out of proportion. Some bean counter gets scared buys into it and in some cases they end up cutting free play by 75%. They're cutting their own throats in the long run.
Anyways I'm just letting everyone know if you find something good at a location I would think twice about sharing it publicly or with the wrong people. If I can get just a few people to realize that sharing TMI about AP is bad for AP, then it's well worth the fight.
Quote: GWAENo, bingo games are set like slots where you have no idea about the pay back. The paytable means nothing.
Exactly, that is the problem. It doesn't matter what the pay table says there is no way to calculate the actual payback. I actually programmed one of the big manufacturers poker games that are used in New York.
And what did they average on the payback? What was the RF or 4'oak cycle on average? Could you safely play a double 4 of a kind promotion on a class II? I think if they had a Bonus poker deluxe I would have to take a risk and play. I would be leary on something where the 4oak contributed very little to the payback.Quote: DRichExactly, that is the problem. It doesn't matter what the pay table says there is no way to calculate the actual payback. I actually programmed one of the big manufacturers poker games that are used in New York.
Do they pay better depending on the denominations, or no, because it's a bingo pool?
Are there not a few different versions of class II VP, one without a hand saver?
Isn't there some VBJ on pot o gold units that's class II? What's up with that?
What's difference between class II that use a visible Bingo board and ones that don't?
Is there any difference if someone plays a class II slot VS class III in the long run? I have seen the same slots same casino class II with a bingo card then they have the same machine there without a bingo card. My first instinct would be to play the class III, but wait, 2 of the bonus meters are significantly higher on the class II.
I wouldn't avoid a juicy promotion just because they only had class II.
Quote: AxelWolfAnd what did they average on the payback? What was the RF or 4'oak cycle on average? Could you safely play a double 4 of a kind promotion on a class II? I think if they had a Bonus poker deluxe I would have to take a risk and play. I would be leary on something where the 4oak contributed very little to the payback.
Do they pay better depending on the denominations, or no, because it's a bingo pool?
Are there not a few different versions of class II VP, one without a hand saver?
Isn't there some VBJ on pot o gold units that's class II? What's up with that?
What's difference between class II that use a visible Bingo board and ones that don't?
Is there any difference if someone plays a class II slot VS class III in the long run? I have seen the same slots same casino class II with a bingo card then they have the same machine there without a bingo card. My first instinct would be to play the class III, but wait, 2 of the bonus meters are significantly higher on the class II.
I wouldn't avoid a juicy promotion just because they only had class II.
Sorry, I can't explain too much for confidentiality reasons but I will tell you that some places the video poker has similar paybacks to the slot machines even if it looks like a typical Las Vegas paytable.
The hand saver feature is usually used by the lottery jurisdictions and the bingo is generally the Native American casinos version of class II.
What's better usually Lottery or Bingo? I'll assume Bingo.Quote: DRichSorry, I can't explain too much for confidentiality reasons but I will tell you that some places the video poker has similar paybacks to the slot machines even if it looks like a typical Las Vegas paytable.
The hand saver feature is usually used by the lottery jurisdictions and the bingo is generally the Native American casinos version of class II.
Quote: AxelWolfWhy? If the pay back is good enough and there is a good reason to play I don't know why it would make a difference.
If I had to run coin in on a 99% class 2 that wouldn't allow me to make a mistake VS a 99% class 3 where I could make mistakes. I'll take the class 2 all day long.
AP's really have no freedom when it comes to playing VP. You play by a strategy.
I can see a problem if you were playing a class 2 and there was a promotion where they gave a bonus for particular hands. For example there has been a number of 4 to the Royal promotions that paid a bonus but only if you had no winning combinations.
The cards are not random in a class ll machine so the pay table means nothing. They could make JOB 12-10. All that would mean is you get 12 for a full house and 10 for a flush. The problem is those hands only come up when the machine is programmed to make them come up. You are right in that you can't really make mistakes on class ll but you have no idea of the pay back. They are just slots in disguise.
Quote: AxelWolfWhat's better usually Lottery or Bingo? I'll assume Bingo.
Bingo machines are usually better because they have more competition. A lottery dictates the percentage for all it's machines where the different tribes are competing for customers and usually pay a little better.
Quote: AxelWolfI have no clue how they do all that, I haven't really played them enough. But I think it depends on the state regulations. I have seen what I assume is class ll with what would add up to be a 110% payback, so obviously that'a bogus.
I have seen some VP outside of NV that were 10/6 JOB. I always wondered if they could be "real" or they were non random. Even if they were random they wouldn't have been that lucrative unless there was a promo or something, but none ever came up.
To reiterate others, all Class II needs to do is that the actual result is due to a bingo draw. The casino has great leeway in setting the probabilities of all the different prize amount. So for VP, all one needs to do is lower the probability of the bigger paying hands to significantly depress the payback. My first slot "jackpot" was on a Class II "Texas Tea". I got the maximum win possible for my wager and was displayed 5 "Texas Tea" symbols. But in the help screen for that game at least, it listed all the requirements for every prize in the game. The jackpot was something like 22 specific hits on the bingo card in 48 balls. If you took all the data from the help screen and did the math right, there should have been enough info to calculate the overall payback. There were hundreds of prize listings though.
Quote: AxelWolfI'm 100% sure because I messed around with them..but this was many years ago when it was actually a possibility to find such a game. IIRC it was In California possibly AZ. PS there was nothing strange about them other than the payable.
In both of those states, those might have been "gaffed" machines. I think both state compacts allow "Vegas style" VP. 10/6 JoB was available at Stratosphere for awhile, wasn't it?
