Dicenor33
Dicenor33
Joined: Aug 28, 2013
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November 24th, 2015 at 3:57:38 AM permalink
A slot machine hackers. Access RNG, find the way to influence the outcome, while casinos have no clue of what is going on. Smart.
djatc
djatc
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November 24th, 2015 at 4:32:13 AM permalink
The only "cheating" I know of that's not really, maybe it is, is to run a auto clicker on a macro while playing online.

I used to play an MMORPG (online video game) that required players to click a bunch of times to skill up, and the clicking got tedious so I ran this program while I watched TV.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
Kentry
Kentry
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November 24th, 2015 at 5:42:59 AM permalink
Dean, I'm pretty sure that that the slot app where you practice slot games is not the same slot app that the OP is talking about. You even mentioned that you did not use your slot app in a real casino. Pretty sure that the OP's slot app is to be used to help Gamblers in a real casino, which if not illegal is morally wrong.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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November 24th, 2015 at 6:18:13 AM permalink
Quote: Kentry

which if not illegal is morally wrong.

Have been talking to Dan? I think you just earned a fan.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Joeman
Joeman
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November 24th, 2015 at 7:06:48 AM permalink
Quote: raiden

I would also like to state (for the record) there is a method to my madness of thinking of this idea for an app.

Consider this, the casino is a great place for entertainment. The games, bright lights, sounds, hotels, good food and drinks, etc. But honestly do any of you guys and gals believe the board of directors for some of the largest casinos are sitting up in the Monday morning conference room meeting discussing gambling addiction?

We all know its real, heck you can youtube video after video of all kinds of gambling horror stories. Look at Wiktionary's #1. definition of "addict":


To me, the "someone" in that definition is the casino. Yes they are a great source of entertainment, and I will randomly continue to go for that reason, but also, yes, they do in fact employ tactics that can lead good people to ruins.

I had a discussion about these with a buddy of my mine as we played slots today, you may already be aware, but if you don't consider this. Have you ever been inside a casino that had windows around the exterior walls? What about all those friendly perks, free drinks, etc. Not to mention, you can google for yourself, slot machines are manufactured in a way to create a psychological affect on the player. Its not magic, its real, and its not a good feeling when you've lost control, and ended up leaving the casino, broke feeling like you just got ripped off.

Everyone enjoys winning, heck thats why we play, but the fact of the matter is, the casino has control of its business, so in essence, when we enter the doors of the casino, they have control of our money.

So, I said all that to say this :) (I like to chat if you have't noticed, lol), I'm on a mission, and that mission is to do everything in my power to break the "magic of the machine" and it's ability to control the player. Has anyone heard the term, "chasing a loss", or maybe "I can't lose", I've said those things when I had no control of my play anymore. I've been in situations where I was so frustrated, and I'd play a little more, only to just get more frustrated. I know at some point most slot players have had this same feeling.

I attribute the control the slot machine has over players by the way we play. Some folks may have there own style of play, but from what I have seen, slot reels spin about 3 seconds, and immediately when they stop, the player spins again. This pattern repeats over and over, but the key to all this is, typically the player is "zoned" in on the machine itself, rarely do they stop play, look off to the sides, chat with a friend, its again what I call the "slot zone".

My mission is to teach players to break out of that zone, create some gap and distractions between spins, thats what my idea of this app would be, and thats it. I don't like that feeling of having 0 control when playing, but lets face it, we are human beings, and sadly the casino understands this completely.

I hope to not have upset anyone, I'm a player just like everybody here, @sabre, I'm really sorry if I misguided you, that was not my intention.

I hope to here your thoughts and comments.

Thanks

raiden

If I understand correctly, your app doesn't affect the electro-mechanical function of the machine, it is just a tool to break the "psychological control" the machine is exerting over the player? If this is the case, I don't consider it cheating, but a noble effort. I'm not sure if the law or the casinos would agree with me, however.

As was suggested above, I would consult the actual laws in your jurisdiction, or talk to a lawyer about this.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
raiden
raiden
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November 24th, 2015 at 7:40:50 AM permalink
@Joeman THANK YOU! You are stating exactly what my intentions are. Your right, the app just sits on your phone, runs while you play, and does not affect the machine in any way. The entire idea is simply an attempt to create a distraction between game play, in hopes of someone during that "slot zone" moment realizes they are in trouble, and needs to stop.

Just think of it like bringing a non-gambler friend with you to tag along, on your next trip to the casino, and if they see you win, they tell you about things you can do with the winnings, or quit while your ahead. That truly is my goal.

Also @Joeman, and as others have said, your definitely right about consulting the law. In fact, I'm going to go as far as presenting the idea to the casino managers themselves, if they have an issue with it, np, question answered, but I find it hard to grasp an application that has no physical affect on their machines at all would bother them, I'll find out, and then update everyone so we are informed.

Thanks to everyone for the discussion so far!
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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November 24th, 2015 at 9:36:11 AM permalink
Quote: raiden

@Joeman THANK YOU! You are stating exactly what my intentions are. Your right, the app just sits on your phone, runs while you play, and does not affect the machine in any way. The entire idea is simply an attempt to create a distraction between game play, in hopes of someone during that "slot zone" moment realizes they are in trouble, and needs to stop.

Just think of it like bringing a non-gambler friend with you to tag along, on your next trip to the casino, and if they see you win, they tell you about things you can do with the winnings, or quit while your ahead. That truly is my goal.


You want to make an app that buzzes while you're playing slots, to get you out of the zone so you stop after a while?

That's already on your phone. It's called a timer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8w3bNy63Q
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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November 24th, 2015 at 9:49:46 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Supposedly even if you use your phone to look up a video poker hand it's illegal.

That'd be a very interesting test case. Here's what NRS says:

Quote: NRS 465.075

  Use or possession of device, software or hardware to obtain advantage at playing game prohibited.  It is unlawful for any person to use, possess with the intent to use or assist another person in using or possessing with the intent to use any computerized, electronic, electrical or mechanical device, or any software or hardware, or any combination thereof, which is designed, constructed, altered or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing any game in a licensed gaming establishment or any game that is offered by a licensee or affiliate, including, without limitation, a device that:
1.  Projects the outcome of the game;
2.  Keeps track of cards played or cards prepared for play in the game;
3.  Analyzes the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4.  Analyzes the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game,
except as may be made available as part of an approved game or otherwise permitted by the Commission.


I haven't reviewed the legislative history, but my understanding of the context is that this is meant to make illegal devices for wheel-clocking and card counting. You're allowed to use your brain to clock a roulette wheel or count down a blackjack shoe, but you can't use a computer to do it. But I don't think the intent of that law was to cover an electronically-stored strategy card and that's basically what a VP hand analyzer is. (I don't think the law would distinguish between a VP hand analyzer that simply used a big lookup table vs. one that ran a real-time analysis.)

Anyone know if someone using a VP hand analyzer has ever been charged under this statute? Or alternately, whether someone using a VP hand analyzer was detained but *not* charged?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
raiden
raiden
Joined: Nov 23, 2015
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November 24th, 2015 at 11:20:53 AM permalink
Quote:

You want to make an app that buzzes while you're playing slots, to get you out of the zone so you stop after a while?

That's already on your phone. It's called a timer:

Hi MathExtremist, yup, thats part of what I was thinking, but a simple timer is a bit different than my idea. This has no affect during game play, it only distracts you when the time has ran out. Shooting random intervals of phone vibrations while your spinning, seems like it would be more effective. Plus, I'd also consider having a slot to enter an amount to cash out, and then allowing the user to enter their winnings, and present some cycle of phone vibrations and maybe a screen to display to the player when they have hit their winning goal.

Just like the video you linked, a timer, a friend to offer advice, or even this idea for a phone app, makes gambling more fun when it's played responsibly.

Thanks

MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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November 24th, 2015 at 11:37:02 AM permalink
I agree, but the point is you have nothing to worry about from a legality standpoint. Nobody's going to arrest anyone for using a responsible-gaming app. Not only does it not violate any regs I know of, the negative press would be terrible. I haven't checked the app stores but I'd be surprised if something like this weren't out there already.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563

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