Casino Credit

My upcoming trip to Vegas will be my first using casino credit. I've always brought cash in the past. Does anybody have any useful information to relay regarding the use of markers?

I'm opening $6000 lines of credit at each of the two hotel/casinos at which I will be staying during my trip. I plan to get a marker for $2000 the first time I sit at a table, and immediately play with about $500. Win or lose, I intend to go to the cage and exchange about $1000 in chips for cash that I can use for miscellaneous expenses and gambling at other casinos. This is ok, right?

I'm particularly interested in the following sentence from one of my credit approval letters: "Please keep in mind that casino credit is not available for use in the Poker Room or the Race and Sports Book." I'm guessing that this just means that marker signing does not go on in these locations. I hope its ok for me to get chips in the casino using a marker, and take these chips to the poker room.

Seems to me that casino credit means just that: get all the cash or chips you want at the cage up to your limit.

BTW, what prompted you to get away from taking cash? Cash is easy, efficient, and eliminates the need for unnecessary contact with people you don't really need knowing your stuff. All you end up doing is making more work for yourself and creating more opportunities for multiple cashiers to make you feel uncomfortable until you hand over some tips.

Papa,
You can turn those chips into cash, or use those chips anywhere on a table game, in the sense that once you got the casino chips, you can use them anywhere in the casino. So, you can go back to the cage ("cashier") and turn them back into cash - to use them in to race or sports book, or poker room - which you can, after conversion.

Casino money is good anywhere in that casino, or convertable in cash via the cage, - to use anywhere in the casino AS YOU SEE FIT - so as long as you will pay it back.

If you even wanted to be slick, you can use that advance as a 0% interest rate short term loan, if you were to practice bad faith about about casino patronage - and which the house would catch on to.

My position is that at this day and age - with ATMs and Bank Credit lines all over the place - that Markers are a bit of an old-school gimmick to patronize customers that work as a hook, so don't abuse it.

That is to say, don't use it as a short term loan. Aside from that, gamble with it ANYWHERE in the same casino, even if you converted it back into cash to use at the same casino's sports book or poker room.

As a dealer in the casino in the LV area, the small $500 to $1,000 markers that were occasionally used by pretentious middle-class players who pretended that that were wealthy old-school high-rollers - when they were either middle-class workers at most, or were broke but still had a good but fading credit rating, went to either no table action or into default arears, particularly in these new days of the ATM machine where they check your actual bank account balance.

To this I also often wondered, "who were they trying to impress?" The Asian immigrant dealers who couldn't care less about these 'Amelican show-off plicks' snapping their hands for service like wanna-be high-rollers after getting a $500 marker - and showing up at tables demanding 'service', or the drunk tourists that they sat next to??!!

If a man with a $2,000 a month mortgage cannot pull out even $500 from an ATM machine to play his Blackjack, then why would a casino even consider giving him a $500 marker?

And if a man is truly rich enough in terms of world-class amounts - then WHY does he have to BORROW it in order to gamble??

When you consider that the $500 or $1000 cash advance via a casino marker is actually less than a typical house rental or mortgage fee, are we stating that this amount is more convienient "as borrowed" than an ATM withdrawl IF HE ACTUALLY HAD that needed money??

If you don't has the discretionary cash at hand to gamble, to the point where you actually need CASH LOANS from A CASINO to GAMBLE in the days of ATM machines and global banking, then something is serious wrong with both your gambling habits and with the casino loaning to you.

My position is this:

1. If you are financially comfortable enough to gamble, then you certainly don't need to BORROW from a casino to do so; and

2. If you are NOT comfortable enough to gamble, then you also certainly don't need to BORROW from a casino, in order NOT to do so. That's different.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Jerry, I'm just not comfortable travelling with $10k or more in cash. I've brought out $6k on previous trips. Even that was a bit awkward, as my bank frequently didn't have enough hundreds for the withdrawal and had to load me up with smaller denomination bills.

Dan, I wasn't thrilled about the prospect of the credit line and paperwork that go along with it. I tried to find another way. My first notion was to wire some money from my bank account to the cage. It took quite an effort to find anyone at the casino who knew anything about this, then I finally found someone who faxed me three pages of instructions (small type) on how to go about it. More trouble than I was willing to pursue. It just seems like the casinos are more readily set up to handle credit. ATMs and debit cards have limits on the amount I can access, plus there are fees that go along with every transaction.

It appeared to me that casino credit is just the best way to get largish amounts of money to Vegas. If I'm not a winner when all is said and done (ha!) I'll just write a check for the deficit when I leave. I'm certainly not trying to impress anybody (although I've heard that credit is a good way to get the attention of a casino host). If anyone has a better idea about how to get funds to Vegas, I'm interested (for next trip).

I think you all are missing another aspect of casino credit.
I have to go through airport security, and $3000 in cash is a wad, no matter how well you try to hide it. Then I get to Vegas, and have to hope my cab ride does not have any issues. I also have to make sure my bankroll does not get lost. Of course, patting my pocket a dozen times just points to where my money is. Finally, on the morbid side, if something were to happen to the plane going out, or coming home, $3000 does not end up in my children's inheritance.
ATMs with their high casino fees are a cash cow for the ATM holders. They are not a viable option for getting cash for all but serious emergencies.

Quote: RaleighCraps

I think you all are missing another aspect of casino credit.
I have to go through airport security, and $3000 in cash is a wad, no matter how well you try to hide it. Then I get to Vegas, and have to hope my cab ride does not have any issues. I also have to make sure my bankroll does not get lost. Of course, patting my pocket a dozen times just points to where my money is. Finally, on the morbid side, if something were to happen to the plane going out, or coming home, $3000 does not end up in my children's inheritance.
ATMs with their high casino fees are a cash cow for the ATM holders. They are not a viable option for getting cash for all but serious emergencies.

I agree that Casino Credit is more of a way to get money from your bank account with no fees or hassle, rather than being a lending institution as we commonly think of one.

I have heard that instructions for wiring money in can be an issue. I still hear of folks who do it successfully all the time.

I do something fairly simple. I get a cashier's check from my bank for the amount of my bankroll (the check is free). I also contact the cage via a host. They want a copy of the cashier's check a few days early (I fax it out). They can then call the bank and verify it. Once I get to the casino, I deposit it at the cage. I use small markers ($500) to withdraw my money to use as I see fit. If I win a lot, I put that on deposit after covering the existing markers. At the end of my trip, I clear all the remaining markers and get a check for the remaining amount. Very easy and very convenient.

I don't like carrying large amounts of money while traveling and the ATM fees are horrid. This method helps me out.

Quote: PapaChubby

If anyone has a better idea about how to get funds to Vegas, I'm interested (for next trip).

Wells Fargo, Bank of America and other national banks have branches in the Las Vegas Valley. It is not the most convenient way to do it, (especially if you come in on a Sunday, or after hours) but you avoid traveling through the airport with large wads of cash. It also means it is possible, (but again, not convenient)to make a deposit before you leave, saving you the stress of toting the bundle of Benjamins back home.

Markers are great as long as you stay within your means. It is a convenient way to track your losses for IRS purposes too. Think of it as an extension of your checking account, because that is exactly what it is. If you don't pay it back, BAM, the casino presents the marker as a draft against your bank account.

Actually, despite the classification as ``credit,`` wait 30 days and you`ll see just what the casino does with your checking account. Markers are not credit in the sense of MasterCard or Visa.

Papa,
That's a good point. It's just that - as a dealer - I has seen a lot of horrible marker disasters, especially when used as a "high-roller" pretense, but a million "no problem" banking transfers, including many with banks, real estate offices in Las Vegas, and with Western Union. When I moved to Las Vegas, I had my NY City bank (Chase) wire $80,000 to buy a condo over the phone to my broker's office, with a verbal interview to establish who I am.

So you can:
1. Wire from bank to bank branch, to the city your going to, if your bank has branches in both your hometown and LV.
2. Now.....If it is difficult for a Casino's own Cage to handle fancy bank transfers, then this has GOT to tell you how very rare this action is - or the casino your dealing with is a dive, and NOT the Venetian!
3. But....the Venetian or the Wynn or the Bellagio has GOT to be experienced in this money transfer area. If I may ask - what Casino had a problem with a bank transfer??
3. AMEX traveler's checks ( or "cheques", as they refer to them ) - cashed at any nation Bank or Western Union office.
4. Contact Western Union about your situation, especially if you have both a valid driver's license and a passport.
5. The biggest table buy-in I ever did was about $2,000. I cannot see buying into a table for more than $10,000, unless your an International Billionaire who co-starred in an Austin Powers movie and you're staying at Caesars Palace or the Wynn with Dr. Evil. C'mon now, Illegal Mexican Immigrans transfer $2 Billion a year out of the country from Tobacco shops in our country's inner city slums, and we can't get you to transfer about $10K in cash within the country for a good bit of table action in Las Vegas as a fellow American?
6. Card counters used to strap $30,000 in cash on their bodies with duck tape going between Las Vegas and Boston. Now, with the body scanners, that would be spotted. But you could buy about $10,000 in cashable postal or Western Union Money orders at $500 each, and that would fit into your wallet - numbering 20 in count. No casino cage, Hotel, or Money office would have a problem with Bona fide Money orders and passport/driver's id.

Just some ideas.

Quote: Paigowdan

Papa,
That's a good point. It's just that - as a dealer - I has seen a lot of horrible marker disasters, especially when used as a "high-roller" pretense,

What sort of disasters are you referring to? Just people playing beyond their means? I'm only establishing $12K in credit, which is the same as the amount of cash I would've liked to bring. And I've got the money in my checking account to cover it, worst case. So I don't think I can get into any more trouble than I would with cash.

Quote: Paigowdan

3. But....the Venetian or the Wynn or the Bellagio has GOT to be experienced in this money transfer area. If I may ask - what Casino had a problem with a bank transfer??

I don't remember, but it must've been one of the Harrahs properties. Maybe Paris?

Thanks for all the suggestions, Dan. Given that I'm effectively using the credit line to give myself check writing privileges on the property during my stay, it still seems to me that this is the easiest way to get my funds out there. Unless I'm missing something.

Quote: Paigowdan

Papa,
If you even wanted to be slick, you can use that advance as a 0% interest rate short term loan, if you were to practice bad faith about about casino patronage - and which the house would catch on to.

What would be "slick" about this and what would the house "catch on to?" I don't like carrying large sums from home to LV for many of the same reasons others have already mentioned. I have a marker at NYNY, but I don't always stay there, so I'll take a few hundred ready cash and then if I need it, go to a craps table at NYNY and take out a marker for $500 or $1000. I don't act important. I'm not trying to impress anyone - although once I did get more attention than I expected from a host. I won't play the whole marker at NY -- I like to move around, and it's easy to plan my meanderings to be at NY if needed. At the end of the trip, I pay off the marker -- with winnings if variance has been in my favor or I write a check. I never take out more than I budgeted. Why would NYNY care that I "borrowed" money from them, then spread it around all over town as long as I pay them back?

Why don't I wire money, simply withdraw from my bank's LV branch or use an ATM? Primarily for the convenience of getting cash where I'm going to use (some of) it, and getting only what I actually need at the time.

I did learn something on my last trip which could affect you if you don't go to LV often. I was staying at Aria and my initial stake grew at first. Unfortunately my good luck (almost don't want to use that term after Nareed's rules thread) turned and I headed to NY the morning of my third day and discovered that if you haven't used your marker in the past year, your application needs to be updated, including confirming your bank account, and this can (as it turns out) take more than a day. They did let me cash a check and that got me through the third and final day of my trip. This was a tad less convenient than I had expected.

The casino credit folks also told me that if you are staying where you have credit then marker operations gets notified about guests arriving the following week, and they take care of all this before you arrive. If you are not staying there, then you can call ahead.

OMG! Doesn't anyone here gamble in Vegas?

First, how can someone be so afraid of losing his or her cash wad to a robber or having it "fall out of your pocket" when they're in town to gamble it away anyway! Then, what's with all the hysteria about carrying around ten or twenty grand, what do you have, a SIGN on top of you that says I'M CARRYING TEN GRAND? Third, what's up with a bank that doesn't have enough hundreds? Before I take a LV trip I always withdraw my thousands in hundreds, and I always alert the manager the day before so they will always have the cash in big bills only.

Traveller's checks, Western Union, ATM's, casino credit, cashing checks at the cage....those are all unnecessary, some are costly, they're all a big waste of time, and they're all methods of getting gamblers to spend more than they planned on spending. Any advantage you thought you had is gone before you even start.

I think you're all overlooking a reply that had very simple solution:

Quote: RonC

I do something fairly simple. I get a cashier's check from my bank for the amount of my bankroll (the check is free). I also contact the cage via a host. They want a copy of the cashier's check a few days early (I fax it out). They can then call the bank and verify it. Once I get to the casino, I deposit it at the cage.

And at the end of his trip, the cage cuts him a check.

Quote: JerryLogan

Third, what's up with a bank that doesn't have enough hundreds? Before I take a LV trip I always withdraw my thousands in hundreds, and I always alert the manager the day before so they will always have the cash in big bills only.

I think you answered your own question.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I think you're all overlooking a reply that had very simple solution.

I did not overlook this suggestion. Seems like a reasonable alternative to getting credit. Seems to me like kind of a "six of one, half dozen of the other" kind of thing. The only advantage that I can see to RonC's approach is that you're not giving the casino your bank account and employment information. I doubt this is anything to worry about, tho.

I saw the LVH has a casino credit promotion and I'm curious as to what kind of EV this would have, they give you $500 in promo chips and a 2 nights hotel

Link to LVH

Wow, seems like a fantastic deal to me.

I've used markers for years because $500 per day from an ATM is not enough and I don't want to go to the bank before I leave, risk carrying a lot of cash on the trip, then make another trip to the bank when I get home. Using markers is just like writing a check except that if I win I can pay back the markers in cash . Also, in my experience, using casino credit and then writing a check to the casino even if I'm ahead makes it appear that I have lost and earns me more comped rooms. I haven't paid for a room in Vegas in 10 years and my average loss is less than $25 per day.

Quote: marksam40

I saw the LVH has a casino credit promotion and I'm curious as to what kind of EV this would have, they give you $500 in promo chips and a 2 nights hotel

Link to LVH

What are promotional chips? Are they like 'match play' and really worth $250 or so? Anyone know?

Quote: SOOPOO

What are promotional chips? Are they like 'match play' and really worth $250 or so? Anyone know?

Promotional chips vary by casino, but they generally fall into two categories:

1) One bet only chips: They feature these in Tunica, specifically at Tunica Roadhouse that I've seen recently. These ACT as betting chips, though they have no cash value at the cashier cage. They can be used for any type of bet you'd make with regular chips, but once a decision has been reached (win or loss) they will convert the value to real money and take away the chip OR they will just take away the chip.

Some casinos may give players the value of the chip PLUS the win, while others may only give players the value of the win (i.e. at Roadhouse).

2) Multi-bet chips: This is often used in Vegas from what I understand. These are also non-redeemable chips at the cashier cage. However, they are good to play with (as real money) until a LOSS decision has been made. If you go on a hot winning streak with these chips, they can net a very nice profit. My guess is this is they type that LVH will be offering. Thus the value of those promotional chips is much higher.

In both cases, some casinos require the bets be placed on even-money decisions, though most allow the chips to be wagered wherever the player may wish. In the case of Roadhouse, I saw them in play a lot on Mississippi Stud.

Quote: Tiltpoul

2) Multi-bet chips:

The cruise ship I was recently on did not really give away much of anything. In the casino, they had an introductory promo that for $25 you could purchase $30 in $5 promo chips. They were the multi-bet kind, so basically they were giving everyone $5 so long as you played at least $30 worth at the tables. Just something to get you started if you weren't playing anyway. There was an alternate promo for slots. I think I mentioned in the Casino Chip of the Day thread that these promo chips were larger than the standard chips in order to keep them separate.

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Quote: Doc

The cruise ship I was recently on did not really give away much of anything. In the casino, they had an introductory promo that for $25 you could purchase $30 in $5 promo chips. They were the multi-bet kind, so basically they were giving everyone $5 so long as you played at least $30 worth at the tables. Just something to get you started if you weren't playing anyway. There was an alternate promo for slots. I think I mentioned in the Casino Chip of the Day thread that these promo chips were larger than the standard chips in order to keep them separate.

At Roadhouse, the promo chips are about the same size (a little thinner) and about the same color as the $500 chips. I wonder if there have been any mistakes with that...

It looks like this was covered on the radio show, and some more of the details are that you must play for 4 hours at $100 a bet. With a strategy of trying to play at a low house edge game at slow table, you would have a positive EV, but not anything too big. However, the hotel room that comes with it and the possibility of comps down the road would also be things to consider.

ahhh you had me for a second there. flaaaaaaaaggggg

Quote: GWAE

ahhh you had me for a second there. flaaaaaaaaggggg

What did I miss?

Quote: Deucekies

What did I miss?

Nothing too exciting, just a spammer dredging up a 4-year-old thread. I assume his post evaporated after the requisite number of flag clicks.

Actually I'm kind of glad it resurfaced. It was an interesting read, and nice compliment to OG's blog posts about his recent casino credit adventures.