waasnoday
waasnoday
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
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October 21st, 2015 at 12:51:06 PM permalink
Quote: 777

According to the status, “it is It is unlawful for any person: … to claim, collect or take an amount greater than the amount won.” In a lawsuit situation, it is very difficult for the casino to prove of its customer criminal intent, but it can very easily prove of the overpayment via video surveillance; and therefore entitle for the repayment of the overpaid amount.

My guess is the reason your casino does not want to elevate the issue through legal channel is due to the economic reason. Is it worth to collect $10, $50, $100… when lawyer fee, employee time and other overhead cost are taken into consideration? Furthermore, there could be a public relation problem, and the casino could lose this customer for life over a small amount of dispute.



You pretty much nailed it. We have never had (that we know of) an overpayment in the amount that outweighs the legal costs and PR hit. We do 86 if not paid and let it go at that. For the most part we do not have many over or under payments. Fairly decent cash control in place.
777
777
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October 21st, 2015 at 1:04:52 PM permalink
Quote: waasnoday

You pretty much nailed it. We have never had (that we know of) an overpayment in the amount that outweighs the legal costs and PR hit. We do 86 if not paid and let it go at that. For the most part we do not have many over or under payments. Fairly decent cash control in place.



I'm here to learn. You said "We do 86..." What is 86?
RS
RS
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October 21st, 2015 at 1:15:01 PM permalink
86 = trespass
waasnoday
waasnoday
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October 21st, 2015 at 1:42:16 PM permalink
Where I work we do try to locate the owner when an underpayment is made. It is very easy if the player card is in play and also very easy to track down the person if tax papers were filed. If neither a player's card nor tax papers are created then we do have to rely on a picture of the person and hope they return. If the person can not be identified then the funds are placed in the found money account which is turned over to the state on I believe a yearly basis (maybe quarterly?).

The largest underpayment I have investigated personally was for $1000. The jackpot won was for 5k but only 4k was disbursed. The cashier's drawer was over and they called in Regulatory. I watched the tape and was amazed to see that payout pass through 5 different hands (including the patron's) and no one caught the mistake. Operations was notified of the investigation results and the patron was made whole.
zoobrew
zoobrew
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October 21st, 2015 at 1:52:57 PM permalink
Quote: waasnoday

Where I work we do try to locate the owner when an underpayment is made. It is very easy if the player card is in play and also very easy to track down the person if tax papers were filed. If neither a player's card nor tax papers are created then we do have to rely on a picture of the person and hope they return. If the person can not be identified then the funds are placed in the found money account which is turned over to the state on I believe a yearly basis (maybe quarterly?).

The largest underpayment I have investigated personally was for $1000. The jackpot won was for 5k but only 4k was disbursed. The cashier's drawer was over and they called in Regulatory. I watched the tape and was amazed to see that payout pass through 5 different hands (including the patron's) and no one caught the mistake. Operations was notified of the investigation results and the patron was made whole.


Sort of proves that more eyes are not always better if everyone assumes that either the first person never makes mistakes or that the other person will catch their mistake.
waasnoday
waasnoday
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October 21st, 2015 at 2:08:38 PM permalink
Quote: zoobrew

Sort of proves that more eyes are not always better if everyone assumes that either the first person never makes mistakes or that the other person will catch their mistake.



Too true. At least this did serve to wake some people up. All received a write-up and what I have seen since this is much more ownership by all parties involved during a payment. Security has really stepped up to the plate and changed their attitude about payments. In the past Security would generally just watch and not truly count. Now they not only observe but also count themselves. Not sure if the Slot Attendant is happy counting the pay out several times in front of the officer if needed, but it is what should have been happening all along.
777
777
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October 21st, 2015 at 3:44:31 PM permalink
Quote: waasnoday

You pretty much nailed it. We have never had (that we know of) an overpayment in the amount that outweighs the legal costs and PR hit. We do 86 if not paid and let it go at that. For the most part we do not have many over or under payments. Fairly decent cash control in place.



Knowing the meaning of 86 now I can reply to your post. Each situation is unique; however, let me speak in a general term. I noticed so many empty tables at all the casinos that I visited recently, and my thinking is the casinos need the customers more than the customers need the casinos, call it the player/customer market if you will. With this being said, IMO, it may not be wise to do 86 over a dispute of a small amount of money.

Sure there are times that the casino must stand up to its principle and has to act very aggressively. However, IMO, it may not be wise to be such aggressive in many instances, and the casino should think twice before doing 86 because the cost of bringing in new customers or keeping existing customers can be much higher than the disputed amount of $5, $10, $100 or more.
waasnoday
waasnoday
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October 21st, 2015 at 4:33:11 PM permalink
Quote: 777

Knowing the meaning of 86 now I can reply to your post. Each situation is unique; however, let me speak in a general term. I noticed so many empty tables at all the casinos that I visited recently, and my thinking is the casinos need the customers more than the customers need the casinos, call it the player/customer market if you will. With this being said, IMO, it may not be wise to do 86 over a dispute of a small amount of money.

Sure there are times that the casino must stand up to its principle and has to act very aggressively. However, IMO, it may not be wise to be such aggressive in many instances, and the casino should think twice before doing 86 because the cost of bringing in new customers or keeping existing customers can be much higher than the disputed amount of $5, $10, $100 or more.



If we were talking about a huge quantity of miss pays then I may have to agree but this issue is very small and one (maybe two people) over my five years here have ever escalated this to a level where they were 86ed. I will also say this, in the one case I am sure of, the individual knew he was overpaid and basically thumbed his nose at us. Not really someone we want coming in our door anyway. It is kind of like having to listen to the various racial slurs heard on the floor. Do we loose money when we kick someone like that out, of course, but are they someone we want on the floor anyway? Sometimes the character of the customer must take precedent over the wealth of the customer.

As far as 86s go the vast majority are due to Tito theft with next most frequent usually associated with some sort of drunken revelry.

Edited to add this:
We do not worry about the small stuff. As long as the miss pay is under $100, we usually would not even worry about it. Now in regards to Tito theft, pretty much any amount will get you ousted, well at least until you make restitution. In the case of Tito theft they are stealing from another customer and we will not be lenient about that in any sense of the word.
NokTang
NokTang
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October 21st, 2015 at 5:05:57 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson


In the case of an error of $25 or less, I doubt anyone would notice or care. Heck, I've seen dealers pay a player for a "regularly made bet" that the player forgot to make. For example, a player always has $5 on the horn, and then forgets to make it because of a distraction -- the horn hits and the player is paid. Or a player was distracted when a new point is established and doesn't get his odds on the table, and on the next throw the point is hit. I've seen dealers pay as if the odds were there.



Alan, you see some amazing things. You never cease to entertain some of us. Others are taking you seriously. I feel very sorry for them. Have a nice day.
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
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October 21st, 2015 at 8:09:24 PM permalink
Overpays happen, underpays happen. I hope you watch your money as it comes and goes but that's up to you. Had two separate overpays on my last outing (BJ table). Both same bet $125, two different dealers, first the regular and then a relief or 'break' dealer. Both times was actually a push, both times dealer paid, both times I held out my hand and said "wait". Both times was corrected quickly, once with Pit Boss involved, the other just immediately corrected by dealer. Maybe I should have been silent, my losses would have been $250 less for the session, but I really don't know how to do that. I may very well have missed other overs or unders, I never claimed to be perfect. When I see a mistake, either way, I call it a mistake, at least for my play. I have ignored mistakes that I noticed that had absolutely nothing to do with me, nothing major, not yet. JFWIW.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F

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