"Boulder Strip" casinos

Does anyone how to determine which casinos are in the "Boulder Strip" in the Nevada Gaming Revenue reports? I think I found a post on here with the casinos listed, but cant find it now. I seem to recall it included things as far away from the boulder strip as the "M".

Thanks!

Its hard to tell about government entities and how they "think".

The M is, I believe, in Hendertucky. Or as the politicians call it: Henderson.
Its so new it might not be in very many statistical reports. Isn't it just over a year old? Or has my mind skipped a year?

The Gaming Commission keeps referring to the Airport Slots by some humungously long monstrosity that nobody ever uses.

I guess technically The M is a Locals just as much as the Boulder Strip is despite the M being on the same Las Vegas Blvd as all the Strip casinos are even though they are about seven miles distant. I hope there is a reliable way to drill thru the data and find out for sure. Its like those misleading figures for 25 cent slot machines... for a long time those figures included Video Poker machines.

Quote: DrEntropy

Does anyone how to determine which casinos are in the "Boulder Strip" in the Nevada Gaming Revenue reports? I think I found a post on here with the casinos listed, but cant find it now. I seem to recall it included things as far away from the boulder strip as the "M".

Thanks!

They don't post the casinos by geographic area, as it is considered classified information. Anything that helps you get close to figuring out an individual casinos finances is considered classified.

I wrote a computer program to go backwards from the database to determine which casinos are in which geographic areas. I don't have the list in front of me

According to my calculations M Resort and Green Valley are included in the Boulder Strip calculations. Since South Point, and Silverton are not included I think their reasoning is that anything with a Henderson adress is included. A Gaming Overlay map of city of Henderson includes both Green Valley and M Resort which are at far boundaries of the jigsaw map that is Henderson.

There were a total of 32 casinos in this geographic group that made over $1 million in fiscal year 2009. These are the principal licenses.

03274-02 SAM'S TOWN HOTEL & GAMBLING HALL
17503-01 BOULDER STATION HOTEL & CASINO
16690-01 SUNSET STATION HOTEL & CASINO
27038-01 GREEN VALLEY RANCH STATION CASINO

30405-01 M RESORT SPA AND CASINO, THE
03659-03 EASTSIDE CANNERY CASINO & HOTEL

19166-03 FIESTA HENDERSON CASINO HOTEL
16017-03 ARIZONA CHARLIE'S BOULDER
00004-04 RAILROAD PASS CASINO

The code that the NGC gives to each casino has two parts. The first 5 digit number is given chronologically (Railroad Pass is 00004 because it was given on the first day in 1931). The second two digit number refers to the number of the entity that has owned the license. Sam's Town has the number "02" because it was founded by an individual in 1979, and then turned over to the public company BOYDGAMING that was formed in 1993.

HOT RUMOR: M Resort may be foreclosed on by the bank and shut down. The first major casino to close in the recession.

Quote: pacomartin

HOT RUMOR: M Resort may be foreclosed on by the bank and shut down. The first major casino to close in the recession.

Aw dang. Its a really nice place (that's in the middle of nowhere).

Quote: mantic59

Aw dang. Its a really nice place (that's in the middle of nowhere).

M Resort and Alliante Station were both built on the assumption that residential development would grow in their district. Both are losing money.

Something that I have wondered about is the cost of Vegas resorts compared to skyscrapers. The TRUMP tower in Chicago is 1,389 feet tall to the spire, just 67 feet short of being the tallest building in the USA. It could easily have been the tallest, except Donald's condominium buyers didn't really like the idea of living in the tallest building in the country, as it might bring unwelcome attention. The building has 486 luxury residential condominiums, 339 hotel rooms, and retail, office space, health club and spa. There are also one of the Chicago's seven four-star restaurants. Total is 92 floors with an area of 2,600,000 square feet, which is a few percentage points smaller than the Empire State Building's 2,768,591 sq ft.

It only opened in Jan 2008 at a cost of $ 847 million.

Why the heck should a locals casino with 400 hotel rooms like the M Resort cost $1 billion if one of the biggest skyscrapers in the country cost less?

Quote: pacomartin

Why the heck should a locals casino with 200 hotel rooms like the M Resort cost $1 billion?

"Bugsy" Siegel :)

Quote: pacomartin

M Resort and Alliante Station were both built on the assumption that residential development would grow in their district. Both are losing money.

Reasonable assumptions, but assumptions nevertheless. Surely they had some margin for error though.

>Why the heck should a locals casino with 200 hotel rooms like the M Resort cost $1 billion?
There's the rub. They wanted to be an upscale locals casino. So it was to be marble and the like, just no theme.
They put alot of money into infrastructure and wiring and superlative this and that, but most people don't want to deal with personalizing the room's curtains the moment they arrive. Most of the M's customers didn't want marble they wanted moderate.

96 Beers on tap? Wonderful. Hostile Grape? What a name to have chosen. As Single As You Want To Be? Poor marketing.

Yet the M Resort had tried to shift its focus: going after the hordes of yuppies interested in Concerts and Pool Parties. That was the one thing that was supposed to make the M resort stand out: a refuge from hordes of yuppie clubbers.

I hope they make it.

I really think casino developers should be able to describe their target market in thirty words or less ... and then stick to that market. Once they chose No Drunken Clubbers they should not have considered Rock Concerts or Pool Parties. Once they said Upscale, they should not have tried to focus on bottom feeders. Something was schizophrenic in their viewpoint and they thought thats okay: we will throw money around and the customers will come.

I hope it at least stays open for my trip in a few weeks. I really want to see the M, as i heard the buffet is excellent. 96 beers on tap sounds awesome to me.

Quote: BigRoss71

I hope it at least stays open for my trip in a few weeks. I really want to see the M, as i heard the buffet is excellent. 96 beers on tap sounds awesome to me.

Too bad they haven't been able to get the nitrogen mix right on the pub ales... they had it when they first opened, but now the Boddingtons is too bubbly. And now they serve it in a pilsner glass instead of a proper pint glass. Sort of symptomatic of the whole place... overall the place seems like it should be awesome, but in the details, not so much. Like the music... they pipe some disco mixed with 80s pop mixed with country. It's all things that are easy to fix! Don't get me wrong, I love the place, but it could be so much better!
PS: The buffet ~is~ excellent.

Quote: pacomartin

HOT RUMOR: M Resort may be foreclosed on by the bank and shut down. The first major casino to close in the recession.

Who is the owner of M?

Foreclosure? I don't typically think of foreclosure for a resort/hotel that large, but rather some sort of bankruptcy reorganization. Closing the property totally doesn't help anyone out of a bad deal, unless they are running some huge operating loss on a continued basis with no way out.

Quote: ruascott

... unless they are running some huge operating loss on a continued basis with no way out.

I, of course, have no idea how the money is running for them. I have never stayed at the M, but I have visited there half a dozen times. My two biggest impressions have been (1) the place is beautiful, and (2) it would be easy to get lonely there. On my visits, it has been as if the place was almost abandoned -- lots of vacant slots, only a few people at the tables, and plenty of open spaces in the bars and restaurants. Maybe I have just been there at the wrong times, but the place struck me as a beautiful resort waiting for some customers to arrive. If my observations were typical, then I could see it as operating at a loss.

Quote: ruascott

Quote: pacomartin

HOT RUMOR: M Resort may be foreclosed on by the bank and shut down. The first major casino to close in the recession.

Who is the owner of M?
.

Owner is mostly the Marinelli (sp?)family. Construction in Vegas area.
I doubt things are any where near as bad as the rumor indicates and I do not foresee any closures.
Lets not put a place like the M on the deathwatch list. Its nowhere near that bad.

Quote: FleaStiff

Owner is mostly the Marinelli (sp?)family. Construction in Vegas area.
I doubt things are any where near as bad as the rumor indicates and I do not foresee any closures.
Lets not put a place like the M on the deathwatch list. Its nowhere near that bad.

Marnell properties owns the casino and many other developments. They built all of Steve Wynn's properties in Vegas.

The way I understand it they got paid to build the property but the bank that owns most of their debt is taking the brunt of the operational losses. The rumor came from pretty high up in the media, so it shouldn't be discounted.

But yes, I agree, that it is hard to imaging boarding up the doors on a brand new property, especially since the fifty year old properties are not being boarded up and knocked down.


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Casino Montelago was announced to be closing on March 14 when the Ritz Carlton shut down, and yet the web site still functions. I am not sure of it's status. Montelago only opened in 2003 so that makes it less than 7 years old.

The M Resort was supposed to have competition from another nearby luxury resort that was never built. The $1 billion Southern Highlands Resort Set to Begin Construction in March of 2007 by Olympia Gaming. The Southern Highlands Resort was to be built on 70 undeveloped acres on the opposite corner of St. Rose Parkway and Las Vegas Boulevard Southas the M Resort. The project was approved for 3,200 rooms, a 120,000-square-foot casino and a 530-foot-high hotel tower in 2006.

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It does seem as if overcapacity is inevitable. In theory a total of 54,000 rooms would have opened and were approved for construction if the recession hadn't happened. If the 16,000 net rooms that did get added since the Palazzo on New Year's 2008 are creating a gut with the recession, you would think that all those extra rooms would have created overcapacity even if the world capitalism hadn't crashed.

Vegas is due to get 4200 more rooms anyway, with 3000 rooms at the Cosmopolitan, 400 rooms at the Harmon hotel, and the rest in a scattering of Marriot's, a Wyndham, a La Quinta, and a Hampton Inn. If the Fontainbleau opens that is another 3800 rooms. There are still over 40,000 rooms that are on the approved list.

Back to the original question

The Boulder Strip took a massive -25.51% drop in the last gaming revenue press release. That compared this April to last April. Last April was the first month that M-Resort was open for the full month. The original question was probably based on this drop, and if M Resort was part of the $20 million collapse.

The answer is yes, M Resort is one of the major resorts in the Boulder Strip, but it is not the only one responsible. The Station Casinos and Sam's Town all did their part.

Up until now the Boulder strip percentages haven't looked so bad. That is because they were comparing a Boulder strip with the M Resort and the Eastside Cannery (opened August 2008) to a Boulder Strip without those two resorts.

HOT RUMOR: M Resort may be foreclosed on by the bank and shut down. The first major casino to close in the recession.

I hope it doesn't close. I have booked a two night stay there at the end of July. If anyone hears anything more about this rumour please post it as I am now having an anxiety attack.

The Scuttlebutt was that The M took a hit from a team of Dice crossroaders on their second night and that they took a big hit at the roulette wheel there first week or two. Anyone know any numbers on this stuff?

I don't see any basis for the rumor about a closing, it seems senseless for any court to order a place shuttered when it would hurt the creditors too much to do it and devastate the debtor as well.

Quote: FleaStiff

The Scuttlebutt was that The M took a hit from a team of Dice crossroaders on their second night.

When I google the word crossroaders it seems to refer to a variety of cheating schemes, not one in particular. Do you know which one they used?

No. As with any rumor it tends to be lacking in details. I just recall something about they got hit big by a dice team on their first two nights.

Win rates by geography for 2009:
Okay. For slots, which I rarely play, its always been thought that Best is Boulder Highway, then Downtown and then The Strip.
For table games... yeah there are peculiarities all over but in general I always thought it didn't matter all that much although you did get better rules downtown.
For craps, I thought it never really mattered.
But I've come across one listing that puzzles me:

Why are the win rates for Blackjack 10.5 to 12.5 ... but 16.4 in North Las Vegas? Is this just due to fewer casinos there and they got lucky?
Why are the craps rates nicely grouped at 10.5 to 10.7 but its 19.28 in North Las Vegas?
Why is win rate for roulette in Boulder half the win rate for roulette anywhere else?

Game Name County Strip Boulder Downtown North
Blackjack 10.88% 10.47% 12.49% 11.30% 16.43%
Craps... 11.21% 10.64% 10.53% 10.76% 19.28%
Roulette 18.50% 18.28% 10.53% 19.77% 21.99%

Game Name	County Avg.	The Strip	Boulder	Downtown	NorthLV
BlackJack	10.88	10.47	12.49	11.30	16.43
Craps	11.21	10.64	10.53	10.76	19.28
Roulette	18.50	18.28	10.53	19.77	21.99

Note: That site's definition of Boulder Strip:
The Board divides up Nevada by counties and by dollar segments. There are 181 non-restricted (15 slots+) gaming entities in all of Clark County. 23 on the Strip have wins of $72M+. Downtown has 20, North Vegas 12, and there are 34 gaming places up and down Boulder Highway.

Is the higher win rate in North Las Vegas due to poorer craps players or significantly underfunded bankrolls there?... Or should I ask to examine the dice?

Quote: FleaStiff

I don't see any basis for the rumor about a closing, it seems senseless for any court to order a place shuttered when it would hurt the creditors too much to do it and devastate the debtor as well.

Courts do not make such rulings - for the very reason you state: Neither party wants that.


This is an oversimplification of the bankrupcy process, but it goes like this:

Creditors (usually the mortgage bank) get tired of late payments and go to court to force payment. Or the debtor gets tired of the threatening letters from the creditor, and goes to court for protection.

The court hears all arguments and then decided if the best action is to give the debtor more time, give them time with the requirement to reorganize, allow the debtor to sell to a third party, or let the creditor/bank take over.

If the court chooses the last option, the creditor/bank takes over and gets the keys to the door. It's then their option to lock it or not.

So this means play roulette on the Boulder Strip but never play blackjack or craps in North Las Vegas.

Quote: FleaStiff

Why are the win rates for Blackjack 10.5 to 12.5 ... but 16.4 in North Las Vegas? Is this just due to fewer casinos there and they got lucky?
Why are the craps rates nicely grouped at 10.5 to 10.7 but its 19.28 in North Las Vegas?
Why is win rate for roulette in Boulder half the win rate for roulette anywhere else?

North Las Vegas is a small area. Primary casinos are Texas Station and Cannery (on Craig Rd) which are the only two that made over $72 million last fiscal year. Smaller ones include Fiesta Rancho and Jerry's Nugget. Alliante Station may be included in this category.

With such a small sample size you tend to get only regulars who play the table games. They stay at the tables longer and grind their bankroll down much more than places with larger numbers of players.

The win percent numbers don't mean much except to say that slots are looser at local casinos. The high payout machines like $100 minimums change month to month with a big win. The casino guides just pick a month (usually the end of June when the fiscal year ends).

There are small differences in table games like the payout in the field.