AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
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July 28th, 2014 at 7:30:34 PM permalink
So, I've never played at Caesar's properties before. I was considering it, but I looked at the Total Rewards website, and it looks pretty bad when compared to m-life rewards. Am I missing something? Here is what I came up with:

Suppose you are 7-star, which is the highest level. So, for machine play, you get 1 pt per $10 coin-in at VP, and 1 pt per $5 coin-in at reel slots. You can redeem 125pts for $1 freeplay, so that works out to $1 freeplay per $1250 coin-in at VP and $1 freeplay per $625 at slots, ie, 0.08% and 0.16% respectively. If you use your points in this way, you don't have any comp dollars (although presumably you will get discretionary comps from your host)

Achieving m-life noir status seems to be a fairly mysterious process. I know a guy who puts in about $10 million coin-in at VP per year and doesn't have it, but I know people will less play who do. I know that you need a minimum of 2M tier credits (= $2M coin-in at VP) to be considered, but I think that at that point it's based on losses or something. So, let's compare 7-star to platinum (which is only 200k tier credits -- much less play than is required for 7-star)

You get 1 base point per $10 coin-in at VP and $3 coin-in at slots. Everything at platinum has a 130% multiplier (140% at noir). So you get 1.3 slot points, 1.3c express comps, and 1.3 holiday gift shoppe points per $10 VP or $3 slot coin-in. A slot point is worth 1c of free play, and a HGS point is worth 1/3 of a c of freeplay (redeemable at the end of the year in increments of $100 only). So, I end up with the following comparison for VP:

Mlife TR
Freeplay 0.13% 0.08%
Comp $ 0.13% 0
Extra freeplay (EOY) 0.043% 0


And for slots it's an even bigger disparity:

Mlife TR
Freeplay 0.43% 0.16%
Comp $ 0.43% 0
Extra freeplay (EOY) 0.14% 0


Is there really that big of a disparity between the two or are there some hidden benefits that I'm missing? Of course at any property you will get comped suites / limos / tournament invites / etc etc at those levels.

But even if you ignore the comp dollars (since maybe the hosts at caesar's are more generous with discretionary comps to make up for the lack of express comps) it is still more than twice as much freeplay on VP at MGM than at Caesar's (if you include the HGS points, which I think it makes sense to do).
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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July 29th, 2014 at 3:56:22 PM permalink
AoC,

I have very little time with mLife, so perhaps I'm not the best person to answer on an apple-to-apple comparison. However, from TR, as Diamond, I get offers constantly (weekly) for $50-100 free play that doesn't come out of my points, $100-120 credit to the room/visit, cash from the cage $50-300/visit, usually more than one type all on the same visit. This in addition to the comped room/tournament entries/other perks. The comped tournament entries also usually come with $50-100 free play, again not taken from my points.

I don't generally convert my points to free play; they're worth more against food/gift shop/spa/other places to spend them. It may be that I should be, but they do roll over as long as you earn 1 point every 6 months minimum. They come in very handy if you're not full RFB (which I almost never have been) in the restaurants particularly. And I have had very good luck with charging everything to the room, then having the host look at my play on checkout; the caveat to that is that they will almost always take your tier points against the charges, then forgive/comp pretty much all of the rest. (It can be hard to get the spa charges comped, as they're a contractor to the hotel, but they've done that a few times for me).

I only get there 3 x/year or less, so that may be helping my offers stay decent compared to my play. If I were to redeem the free play and cash offers weekly, or even monthly, perhaps it would dwindle or go away.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
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July 29th, 2014 at 4:17:22 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

AoC,

I have very little time with mLife, so perhaps I'm not the best person to answer on an apple-to-apple comparison. However, from TR, as Diamond, I get offers constantly (weekly) for $50-100 free play that doesn't come out of my points, $100-120 credit to the room/visit, cash from the cage $50-300/visit, usually more than one type all on the same visit. This in addition to the comped room/tournament entries/other perks. The comped tournament entries also usually come with $50-100 free play, again not taken from my points.

I don't generally convert my points to free play; they're worth more against food/gift shop/spa/other places to spend them. It may be that I should be, but they do roll over as long as you earn 1 point every 6 months minimum. They come in very handy if you're not full RFB (which I almost never have been) in the restaurants particularly. And I have had very good luck with charging everything to the room, then having the host look at my play on checkout; the caveat to that is that they will almost always take your tier points against the charges, then forgive/comp pretty much all of the rest. (It can be hard to get the spa charges comped, as they're a contractor to the hotel, but they've done that a few times for me).



With mlife my offers depend on which casino I go to. At the casino I frequent the most often I am good for 3 nights in a suite (if I want more I just ask; my host has never said no), limo to/from the airport, about $350 in resort credit (more on longer trips) and a couple of hundred freeplay. I generally have enough discretionary comps that if I spend more, it gets comped off. In the rare instance that it doesn't (sometimes I have trips with lots of partying and not much gambling), I always have a lot of express comps banked (since I don't have to use them on most trips) so that can take care of it.

I also get invited to tournaments on a regular basis. These are usually worth somewhere in the range of $300 (low-end) to $1500 (high-end) in EV. I am well aware that there are even more valuable tournaments but I don't get invited to those yet.

With my level of play I would have reached 7star with TR but it would have taken me most of the year (probably 8-10 trips)

It seems like the perks are about the same. I can basically get limo/suite/food/services all paid for either way. Spa is no problem; I have sent girlfriends to Vdara for the day, and it's just a regular room charge that can be comped like anything else. Retail is another story -- if I go into the Davidoff store and buy a cigar there is no way I'm getting it comped (I've tried) but the Davidoff girl comes by while I'm playing, the pit boss will comp me anything in her tray (he fills out a comp slip; not sure if it comes out of discretionary comps). Similar with water -- if I buy a $4 bottle of water from the amenities shop, that's not getting comped, but an $8 bottle of water from the mini-bar in my room gets comped just like anything else. It leads to some interesting low-stakes gambling if you're not sure if you're getting everything comped for the trip -- buy the cheaper stuff from the shop on the way up to the room, or grab the more expensive one in the room and hope it gets comped? It's like a $4 bet. Maybe I'm easily amused.

So, anyway, if the perks are about the same, but TR gives me 1/3 to 1/2 of the freeplay, it seems like a no-brainer to stick with m-life. I guess if the offers included a lot more freeplay it might be worthwhile, but I like the idea of knowing what I'm going to get from my play up-front, rather than hoping I get good offers? I don't know, maybe I should get a card, play through $100k in VP, and see what happens? Worst case, I'm out about $100 in freeplay.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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July 29th, 2014 at 4:38:41 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
wezvidz
wezvidz
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July 29th, 2014 at 6:49:27 PM permalink
We'll lets see

For the same play I've had thousands in free rooms over the years at PHo, Flamingo, Ballys.

MLife has given me NoTHING. I play somewhat equally at both properties.

For 50c vp and below, I'm super loyal to CET. They don't treat me like a nothing.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
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July 29th, 2014 at 7:04:24 PM permalink
Quote: wezvidz

We'll lets see

For the same play I've had thousands in free rooms over the years at PHo, Flamingo, Ballys.

MLife has given me NoTHING. I play somewhat equally at both properties.

For 50c vp and below, I'm super loyal to CET. They don't treat me like a nothing.



Yeah, ok, I definitely get the idea that for smaller players, CET is better. That's not what I'm asking, though, I'm asking about mid-level and higher. There aren't even any decent VP games at MGM properties until you hit $1 denom, and some have nothing below $5 denom.

Free room offers are a wash for me -- I'm getting them at either property. I am not RFB, but I am getting enough to cover any reasonable expenses. If I show up, gamble, and spend $100 - $200 on food every day, that's all getting comped, as well as my suite and limo. If I want something specific (skip the line at a club, for example) I just call my host and she makes it happen. I assume that the same would happen at CET.

However, it seems that if I play at CET I will get about 0.1% less freeplay on my card. If I play $200k in a weekend, that's $200. That is not massive, but it adds up over time. Is CET going to give me something to make up for that? Am I going to get hundreds more in freeplay as part of my offers than I get at MGM?

I'm also getting about $250 in express comps on my card with that much play at MGM. That is good for the weekends when I show up and do a lot more than just spend a couple of hundred on food every day -- ie, if I rack up thousands in bottle service at a club or a pool or whatever. Are the discretionary comps at CET more generous to make up for that? At MGM I might have 3 or 4 trips where I just gamble, so I might have $1000 in express comps on my card. Then I might have a trip where a bunch of friends come down, and, when the dust settles, I have a $2000 room charge (maybe I picked up the tab at the pool, or whatever). At MGM, some of that will be taken care of by my up-front resort credit, some by my host in the form of discretionary comps, and the rest from my express comps. In the end, I'm not paying for it. At Caesar's will they just comp the whole thing? It would all have to be discretionary.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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July 29th, 2014 at 8:11:57 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Yeah, ok, I definitely get the idea that for smaller players, CET is better. That's not what I'm asking, though, I'm asking about mid-level and higher. There aren't even any decent VP games at MGM properties until you hit $1 denom, and some have nothing below $5 denom.

Free room offers are a wash for me -- I'm getting them at either property. I am not RFB, but I am getting enough to cover any reasonable expenses. If I show up, gamble, and spend $100 - $200 on food every day, that's all getting comped, as well as my suite and limo. If I want something specific (skip the line at a club, for example) I just call my host and she makes it happen. I assume that the same would happen at CET.

However, it seems that if I play at CET I will get about 0.1% less freeplay on my card. If I play $200k in a weekend, that's $200. That is not massive, but it adds up over time. Is CET going to give me something to make up for that? Am I going to get hundreds more in freeplay as part of my offers than I get at MGM?

I'm also getting about $250 in express comps on my card with that much play at MGM. That is good for the weekends when I show up and do a lot more than just spend a couple of hundred on food every day -- ie, if I rack up thousands in bottle service at a club or a pool or whatever. Are the discretionary comps at CET more generous to make up for that? At MGM I might have 3 or 4 trips where I just gamble, so I might have $1000 in express comps on my card. Then I might have a trip where a bunch of friends come down, and, when the dust settles, I have a $2000 room charge (maybe I picked up the tab at the pool, or whatever). At MGM, some of that will be taken care of by my up-front resort credit, some by my host in the form of discretionary comps, and the rest from my express comps. In the end, I'm not paying for it. At Caesar's will they just comp the whole thing? It would all have to be discretionary.



My experience with CET mirrors yours with mLife. I'm considered a medium player, and I would guess my play is lower than yours by 10-20%. As I mentioned, they throw extra freeplay at me, min $50/trip, more likely in the 100-300 range, depending (I think) not only on my ADT but on how long since I've been there.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
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July 29th, 2014 at 8:28:40 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

My experience with CET mirrors yours with mLife. I'm considered a medium player, and I would guess my play is lower than yours by 10-20%. As I mentioned, they throw extra freeplay at me, min $50/trip, more likely in the 100-300 range, depending (I think) not only on my ADT but on how long since I've been there.



Do you ever get discounts on your losses? Either in cash or freeplay (after the trip, in addition to anything you got up-front)
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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July 30th, 2014 at 5:13:46 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Do you ever get discounts on your losses? Either in cash or freeplay (after the trip, in addition to anything you got up-front)



It's never occurred to me to ask. I might just see what they say. I've mentioned before, though, that I feel overcomped as it is. I've never lost as much as they've "spent" on me in getting me there, and yet they keep throwing money and show tickets and comps at me. Less now than 5 years ago, but still they've covered pretty much everything.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
tringlomane
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July 30th, 2014 at 5:42:03 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice



So, anyway, if the perks are about the same, but TR gives me 1/3 to 1/2 of the freeplay, it seems like a no-brainer to stick with m-life. I guess if the offers included a lot more freeplay it might be worthwhile, but I like the idea of knowing what I'm going to get from my play up-front, rather than hoping I get good offers? I don't know, maybe I should get a card, play through $100k in VP, and see what happens? Worst case, I'm out about $100 in freeplay.



Keep in mind that CET in Vegas values most "full pay" VP at $25 coin-in per tier credit instead of $10 per TC, and there are very few options for "full pay" VP that isn't $5 single line. The best paying games in CET Vegas that are still $10/TC that I am aware of is 7/5 Bonus w/Ultimate X for dollars (3 play minimum about 99.3% return) and 9/5 JoB with Double STP for dollars (98.95% w/DSTP).

CET also has a "holiday gift shoppe" too. Roughly get a point for for every Reward Credit earned in Nevada, Rincon or Ak-Chin. In 2012, I was in Vegas at the time and got a $10 gas card for 3500 points.

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