m-life vs total rewards
Suppose you are 7-star, which is the highest level. So, for machine play, you get 1 pt per $10 coin-in at VP, and 1 pt per $5 coin-in at reel slots. You can redeem 125pts for $1 freeplay, so that works out to $1 freeplay per $1250 coin-in at VP and $1 freeplay per $625 at slots, ie, 0.08% and 0.16% respectively. If you use your points in this way, you don't have any comp dollars (although presumably you will get discretionary comps from your host)
Achieving m-life noir status seems to be a fairly mysterious process. I know a guy who puts in about $10 million coin-in at VP per year and doesn't have it, but I know people will less play who do. I know that you need a minimum of 2M tier credits (= $2M coin-in at VP) to be considered, but I think that at that point it's based on losses or something. So, let's compare 7-star to platinum (which is only 200k tier credits -- much less play than is required for 7-star)
You get 1 base point per $10 coin-in at VP and $3 coin-in at slots. Everything at platinum has a 130% multiplier (140% at noir). So you get 1.3 slot points, 1.3c express comps, and 1.3 holiday gift shoppe points per $10 VP or $3 slot coin-in. A slot point is worth 1c of free play, and a HGS point is worth 1/3 of a c of freeplay (redeemable at the end of the year in increments of $100 only). So, I end up with the following comparison for VP:
| Mlife | TR | |
|---|---|---|
| Freeplay | 0.13% | 0.08% |
| Comp $ | 0.13% | 0 |
| Extra freeplay (EOY) | 0.043% | 0 |
And for slots it's an even bigger disparity:
| Mlife | TR | |
|---|---|---|
| Freeplay | 0.43% | 0.16% |
| Comp $ | 0.43% | 0 |
| Extra freeplay (EOY) | 0.14% | 0 |
Is there really that big of a disparity between the two or are there some hidden benefits that I'm missing? Of course at any property you will get comped suites / limos / tournament invites / etc etc at those levels.
But even if you ignore the comp dollars (since maybe the hosts at caesar's are more generous with discretionary comps to make up for the lack of express comps) it is still more than twice as much freeplay on VP at MGM than at Caesar's (if you include the HGS points, which I think it makes sense to do).
I have very little time with mLife, so perhaps I'm not the best person to answer on an apple-to-apple comparison. However, from TR, as Diamond, I get offers constantly (weekly) for $50-100 free play that doesn't come out of my points, $100-120 credit to the room/visit, cash from the cage $50-300/visit, usually more than one type all on the same visit. This in addition to the comped room/tournament entries/other perks. The comped tournament entries also usually come with $50-100 free play, again not taken from my points.
I don't generally convert my points to free play; they're worth more against food/gift shop/spa/other places to spend them. It may be that I should be, but they do roll over as long as you earn 1 point every 6 months minimum. They come in very handy if you're not full RFB (which I almost never have been) in the restaurants particularly. And I have had very good luck with charging everything to the room, then having the host look at my play on checkout; the caveat to that is that they will almost always take your tier points against the charges, then forgive/comp pretty much all of the rest. (It can be hard to get the spa charges comped, as they're a contractor to the hotel, but they've done that a few times for me).
I only get there 3 x/year or less, so that may be helping my offers stay decent compared to my play. If I were to redeem the free play and cash offers weekly, or even monthly, perhaps it would dwindle or go away.
Quote: beachbumbabsAoC,
I have very little time with mLife, so perhaps I'm not the best person to answer on an apple-to-apple comparison. However, from TR, as Diamond, I get offers constantly (weekly) for $50-100 free play that doesn't come out of my points, $100-120 credit to the room/visit, cash from the cage $50-300/visit, usually more than one type all on the same visit. This in addition to the comped room/tournament entries/other perks. The comped tournament entries also usually come with $50-100 free play, again not taken from my points.
I don't generally convert my points to free play; they're worth more against food/gift shop/spa/other places to spend them. It may be that I should be, but they do roll over as long as you earn 1 point every 6 months minimum. They come in very handy if you're not full RFB (which I almost never have been) in the restaurants particularly. And I have had very good luck with charging everything to the room, then having the host look at my play on checkout; the caveat to that is that they will almost always take your tier points against the charges, then forgive/comp pretty much all of the rest. (It can be hard to get the spa charges comped, as they're a contractor to the hotel, but they've done that a few times for me).
With mlife my offers depend on which casino I go to. At the casino I frequent the most often I am good for 3 nights in a suite (if I want more I just ask; my host has never said no), limo to/from the airport, about $350 in resort credit (more on longer trips) and a couple of hundred freeplay. I generally have enough discretionary comps that if I spend more, it gets comped off. In the rare instance that it doesn't (sometimes I have trips with lots of partying and not much gambling), I always have a lot of express comps banked (since I don't have to use them on most trips) so that can take care of it.
I also get invited to tournaments on a regular basis. These are usually worth somewhere in the range of $300 (low-end) to $1500 (high-end) in EV. I am well aware that there are even more valuable tournaments but I don't get invited to those yet.
With my level of play I would have reached 7star with TR but it would have taken me most of the year (probably 8-10 trips)
It seems like the perks are about the same. I can basically get limo/suite/food/services all paid for either way. Spa is no problem; I have sent girlfriends to Vdara for the day, and it's just a regular room charge that can be comped like anything else. Retail is another story -- if I go into the Davidoff store and buy a cigar there is no way I'm getting it comped (I've tried) but the Davidoff girl comes by while I'm playing, the pit boss will comp me anything in her tray (he fills out a comp slip; not sure if it comes out of discretionary comps). Similar with water -- if I buy a $4 bottle of water from the amenities shop, that's not getting comped, but an $8 bottle of water from the mini-bar in my room gets comped just like anything else. It leads to some interesting low-stakes gambling if you're not sure if you're getting everything comped for the trip -- buy the cheaper stuff from the shop on the way up to the room, or grab the more expensive one in the room and hope it gets comped? It's like a $4 bet. Maybe I'm easily amused.
So, anyway, if the perks are about the same, but TR gives me 1/3 to 1/2 of the freeplay, it seems like a no-brainer to stick with m-life. I guess if the offers included a lot more freeplay it might be worthwhile, but I like the idea of knowing what I'm going to get from my play up-front, rather than hoping I get good offers? I don't know, maybe I should get a card, play through $100k in VP, and see what happens? Worst case, I'm out about $100 in freeplay.
For the same play I've had thousands in free rooms over the years at PHo, Flamingo, Ballys.
MLife has given me NoTHING. I play somewhat equally at both properties.
For 50c vp and below, I'm super loyal to CET. They don't treat me like a nothing.
Quote: wezvidzWe'll lets see
For the same play I've had thousands in free rooms over the years at PHo, Flamingo, Ballys.
MLife has given me NoTHING. I play somewhat equally at both properties.
For 50c vp and below, I'm super loyal to CET. They don't treat me like a nothing.
Yeah, ok, I definitely get the idea that for smaller players, CET is better. That's not what I'm asking, though, I'm asking about mid-level and higher. There aren't even any decent VP games at MGM properties until you hit $1 denom, and some have nothing below $5 denom.
Free room offers are a wash for me -- I'm getting them at either property. I am not RFB, but I am getting enough to cover any reasonable expenses. If I show up, gamble, and spend $100 - $200 on food every day, that's all getting comped, as well as my suite and limo. If I want something specific (skip the line at a club, for example) I just call my host and she makes it happen. I assume that the same would happen at CET.
However, it seems that if I play at CET I will get about 0.1% less freeplay on my card. If I play $200k in a weekend, that's $200. That is not massive, but it adds up over time. Is CET going to give me something to make up for that? Am I going to get hundreds more in freeplay as part of my offers than I get at MGM?
I'm also getting about $250 in express comps on my card with that much play at MGM. That is good for the weekends when I show up and do a lot more than just spend a couple of hundred on food every day -- ie, if I rack up thousands in bottle service at a club or a pool or whatever. Are the discretionary comps at CET more generous to make up for that? At MGM I might have 3 or 4 trips where I just gamble, so I might have $1000 in express comps on my card. Then I might have a trip where a bunch of friends come down, and, when the dust settles, I have a $2000 room charge (maybe I picked up the tab at the pool, or whatever). At MGM, some of that will be taken care of by my up-front resort credit, some by my host in the form of discretionary comps, and the rest from my express comps. In the end, I'm not paying for it. At Caesar's will they just comp the whole thing? It would all have to be discretionary.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceYeah, ok, I definitely get the idea that for smaller players, CET is better. That's not what I'm asking, though, I'm asking about mid-level and higher. There aren't even any decent VP games at MGM properties until you hit $1 denom, and some have nothing below $5 denom.
Free room offers are a wash for me -- I'm getting them at either property. I am not RFB, but I am getting enough to cover any reasonable expenses. If I show up, gamble, and spend $100 - $200 on food every day, that's all getting comped, as well as my suite and limo. If I want something specific (skip the line at a club, for example) I just call my host and she makes it happen. I assume that the same would happen at CET.
However, it seems that if I play at CET I will get about 0.1% less freeplay on my card. If I play $200k in a weekend, that's $200. That is not massive, but it adds up over time. Is CET going to give me something to make up for that? Am I going to get hundreds more in freeplay as part of my offers than I get at MGM?
I'm also getting about $250 in express comps on my card with that much play at MGM. That is good for the weekends when I show up and do a lot more than just spend a couple of hundred on food every day -- ie, if I rack up thousands in bottle service at a club or a pool or whatever. Are the discretionary comps at CET more generous to make up for that? At MGM I might have 3 or 4 trips where I just gamble, so I might have $1000 in express comps on my card. Then I might have a trip where a bunch of friends come down, and, when the dust settles, I have a $2000 room charge (maybe I picked up the tab at the pool, or whatever). At MGM, some of that will be taken care of by my up-front resort credit, some by my host in the form of discretionary comps, and the rest from my express comps. In the end, I'm not paying for it. At Caesar's will they just comp the whole thing? It would all have to be discretionary.
My experience with CET mirrors yours with mLife. I'm considered a medium player, and I would guess my play is lower than yours by 10-20%. As I mentioned, they throw extra freeplay at me, min $50/trip, more likely in the 100-300 range, depending (I think) not only on my ADT but on how long since I've been there.
Quote: beachbumbabsMy experience with CET mirrors yours with mLife. I'm considered a medium player, and I would guess my play is lower than yours by 10-20%. As I mentioned, they throw extra freeplay at me, min $50/trip, more likely in the 100-300 range, depending (I think) not only on my ADT but on how long since I've been there.
Do you ever get discounts on your losses? Either in cash or freeplay (after the trip, in addition to anything you got up-front)
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceDo you ever get discounts on your losses? Either in cash or freeplay (after the trip, in addition to anything you got up-front)
It's never occurred to me to ask. I might just see what they say. I've mentioned before, though, that I feel overcomped as it is. I've never lost as much as they've "spent" on me in getting me there, and yet they keep throwing money and show tickets and comps at me. Less now than 5 years ago, but still they've covered pretty much everything.
Quote: AxiomOfChoice
So, anyway, if the perks are about the same, but TR gives me 1/3 to 1/2 of the freeplay, it seems like a no-brainer to stick with m-life. I guess if the offers included a lot more freeplay it might be worthwhile, but I like the idea of knowing what I'm going to get from my play up-front, rather than hoping I get good offers? I don't know, maybe I should get a card, play through $100k in VP, and see what happens? Worst case, I'm out about $100 in freeplay.
Keep in mind that CET in Vegas values most "full pay" VP at $25 coin-in per tier credit instead of $10 per TC, and there are very few options for "full pay" VP that isn't $5 single line. The best paying games in CET Vegas that are still $10/TC that I am aware of is 7/5 Bonus w/Ultimate X for dollars (3 play minimum about 99.3% return) and 9/5 JoB with Double STP for dollars (98.95% w/DSTP).
CET also has a "holiday gift shoppe" too. Roughly get a point for for every Reward Credit earned in Nevada, Rincon or Ak-Chin. In 2012, I was in Vegas at the time and got a $10 gas card for 3500 points.
Quote: tringlomaneKeep in mind that CET in Vegas values most "full pay" VP at $25 coin-in per tier credit instead of $10 per TC, and there are very few options for "full pay" VP that isn't $5 single line. The best paying games in CET Vegas that are still $10/TC that I am aware of is 7/5 Bonus w/Ultimate X for dollars (3 play minimum about 99.3% return) and 9/5 JoB with Double STP for dollars (98.95% w/DSTP).
Seriously? That makes it even worse! At mlife properties I still get "full" points (1/$10) for 9/6 JoB and 9/7 TDB. Other than a few video BJ machines that give no points at all, nothing is worse than 1pt / $10 at mlife.
So if I play $5 9/7 TDB, I am geting 0.13% freeplay at m-life, and 0.032% at CET?
As for the $5 denom, that's fine. There are some MGM properties that also don't have anything over 99.5% at below $5 denom (Mandalay Bay comes to mind).
Cet comps more but crappy games
You decide if higher return is worth less comps or vice versa.
Unless you play at harrahs reno like I do with 9/6 jacks full points.
Quote: djatcMlife comps less but better games
Cet comps more but crappy games
Comps more what?
If M-life is giving me 0.13% freeplay and CET is giving me 0.03% for the same full-pay games...
At M-life I already get everything I could ever want in terms of other comps (food/drink/suite/limo). What is CET going to do? Put me in a bigger suite? Send hookers to my room? (actually, that might get me to switch)
The difference between CET and MLife in general is that CET doesn't give you much up front, preferring instead to incentivize you to return with mailed freeplay and room offers. MLife is more about earning comps right now. A comparison of the two operators will show that when you take everything into consideration, you do quite a bit better with CET. MLife will do better for the one-shot visitor who isn't likely to return soon, as he will earn more immediately usable comps than he would at CET. But over, CET beats out MLife by quite a bit. If you're coming back within, say, six months, you will do better with CET.
The games offered in Vegas by both companies are rancid shit, but CET is somewhat worse. The bizarre thing is that in other jurisdictions, CET often offers the best VP in town. This has led many people to accumulate reward credits elsewhere and then use them in Vegas. It's a delicate juggling act.
Quote: EaglesnestThe hookers only come at "Plutonium" level.
The difference between CET and MLife in general is that CET doesn't give you much up front, preferring instead to incentivize you to return with mailed freeplay and room offers. MLife is more about earning comps right now. A comparison of the two operators will show that when you take everything into consideration, you do quite a bit better with CET. MLife will do better for the one-shot visitor who isn't likely to return soon, as he will earn more immediately usable comps than he would at CET. But over, CET beats out MLife by quite a bit. If you're coming back within, say, six months, you will do better with CET.
The games offered in Vegas by both companies are rancid shit, but CET is somewhat worse. The bizarre thing is that in other jurisdictions, CET often offers the best VP in town. This has led many people to accumulate reward credits elsewhere and then use them in Vegas. It's a delicate juggling act.
Ok, so, if I play through $200k at full-pay VP in a weekend at Caesars, I'd only accumulate 8000 points (1 pt / $25) which is worth $46 in freeplay (since I'd only be redeeming them at 175pt/$, since I would not be 7-star yet). At MGM I would get 20,000 base points * 1.3 = 26,000 slot points after platinum multiplier, = $260 in freeplay. So, I'm down about $210 in freeplay at that point.
How much could I expect to get as a mailer? Remember that at m-life I can go back, being invited to a slot tournament that's worth well over $1000 per player, and get everything comped (I am essentially always invited to these tournaments; so many that I don't go to all of them because I don't want to be in vegas every single weekend). Is CET really going to beat that by sending me an offer of $1500 or $2000 freeplay for my next visit? If so, I will definitely try it... if not, I don't see how it could be better.
Thanks, I really appreciate this info...
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceOk, so, if I play through $200k at full-pay VP in a weekend at Caesars, I'd only accumulate 8000 points (1 pt / $25) which is worth $46 in freeplay (since I'd only be redeeming them at 175pt/$, since I would not be 7-star yet). At MGM I would get 20,000 base points * 1.3 = 26,000 slot points after platinum multiplier, = $260 in freeplay. So, I'm down about $210 in freeplay at that point.
How much could I expect to get as a mailer? Remember that at m-life I can go back, being invited to a slot tournament that's worth well over $1000 per player, and get everything comped (I am essentially always invited to these tournaments; so many that I don't go to all of them because I don't want to be in vegas every single weekend). Is CET really going to beat that by sending me an offer of $1500 or $2000 freeplay for my next visit? If so, I will definitely try it... if not, I don't see how it could be better.
Thanks, I really appreciate this info...
Your question is difficult to answer because what you get from CET, or from MLife for that matter, is dependent on your play history over a longer period than just a weekend. CET properties do slot tournaments too, of course. The mailers tend to be a steady stream rather than a single big chunk. As I said, you do better with CET if you're a frequent flyer. If you have a history with MLife but not so much with CET, you'll get less from CET--and vice versa.
Since comps, free play, etc. are doled out as a measure of theo at both places, and that percentage of theo is fairly constant throughout the industry (it used to be 40% but now ranges closer to 30%), you will eventually realize roughly the same return, though distributed differently, from both places. You're getting more up front at MLife than you would at CET because that's how they choose to arrange it. CET is all about getting you to come back soon. You'll actually see equivalent total freeplay and tournament offers from CET once your action equalizes, but it'll be more spread out. The difference is that the offers persist longer at CET, and they ultimately add up to somewhat more as a result. Of course, if you're not a frequent enough visitor, you won't be able to redeem enough of those spread-out offers to catch up to what you would have gotten in bigger chunks from MLife. This is why you get more from CET overall--generally, most people only redeem half or less of their CET offers.
I am assuming that in each case, you're playing 9/6 JOB and not something worse.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceComps more what?
If M-life is giving me 0.13% freeplay and CET is giving me 0.03% for the same full-pay games...
At M-life I already get everything I could ever want in terms of other comps (food/drink/suite/limo). What is CET going to do? Put me in a bigger suite? Send hookers to my room? (actually, that might get me to switch)
If your already getting RFB it's now a matter of whether or not you want to get RFB at MGM or CET. If you can afford to play $1 and above I recommend MGM. They comp 0.13% and give you that in cashback as well, therefore 99.54% jacks now becomes 99.8% if you consider comps same as cash. Also I know they have HGS so that adds a bit if you cash that out for freeplay at the end of the year.
But..... if you travel a lot outside of Las Vegas CET has casinos everywhere. You can also play better games at full points if you want to play outside Vegas.
Do you mind me asking: What is the average and hours to get you this please???Quote: teddysI am pretty loyal to CET. M-life hasn't given me squat. This year alone, making Seven Stars, I got two free cruises, two free trips to any CET property with airfare, two $500 "celebration dinners", one $100 "celebration dinner," a Kindle PaperWhite, a Keurig coffeemaker, a SodaStream, free nights at any CET hotel anytime (they cut me off in Cleveland because I used to many, but I still get them in Cinci), and a ton of slot and VIP tournament invitations. I like getting stuff.
Quote: vendman1But for room comps CET is in my opinion the best comp program.
I can't speak for M-Life, but I agree that currently Room Comps are readily available from CET Total Rewards even for low to medium rollers like myself. Just stayed 5 comp'd nights at Paris.
Quote: JohnnyQI can't speak for M-Life, but I agree that currently Room Comps are readily available from CET Total Rewards even for low to medium rollers like myself. Just stayed 5 comp'd nights at Paris.
That is fair enough but I'm specifically comparing the benefits for players who are at the level where comped rooms and food are readily available -- any time, including premium weekends.
Basically, I know that CET has better comps for low-medium rollers, but what about medium-high rollers?
Anyway, I've gotten lots of useful information on this thread (thanks, everyone). I think I'm going to give them some play and see what offers I get as a result.
Three years ago I used to get $300 Free Play gaming chips each month. Two years ago, they started giving me $300, but it was split $150 for the 1st thru 14th, and $150 for 15th thru eom. While this effectively made the offer really only $150, I was able to find junkets that would be traveling over the 14th, so I could take advantage of both $150 offers.
Now, I am still getting $300 a month, but it is now $75 for each week. This makes it impossible for me to receive the full $300, and even getting $150 is dubious.
So, even though they are 'technically' still offering the same amount of Free Play, my end result is I receive much less.
Now for CET.
After a good win at CET (Harrah's Cherokee) back in June, they have doubled my Free Play. I was getting $120 a month in $30/week offers.
They have now doubled it to $60 per week, BUT the week has been reduced to Sunday through Thursday. I cannot redeem them on a Friday or Saturday.
I expect the next mailing will have the picture of an extended middle finger on the cover of the offer.
