ksdjdj
ksdjdj
Joined: Oct 20, 2013
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May 5th, 2014 at 4:52:45 PM permalink
I noticed an online version of ties win blackjack with the option of 'Full Early Surrender'.
I was wondering if the game has a slight player edge under these rules below?
Also, would you use the 'normal blackjack' early surrender strategy for this version of blackjack, if not then what would be the best surrender strategy to use?

The rules are the same as blackjack except as noted below.
6 Decks.
All ties pay 1 to 2.
Player may only hit and stand.
Winning blackjack pays even money.
Dealer Stands on S17
Early Surrender against 10 & A.

see: http://wizardofodds.com/games/ties-win-blackjack/

using the figures from the link above,

The base player edge is - 0.233%
The change in edge with the early surrender rule*** + 0.63%, (Early surrender against ace + 0.39% and Early surrender against ten + 0.24%)
The adjusted player edge is: + 0.397%

***According to the rule variations, @: http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/rule-variations/

thank in advance
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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May 5th, 2014 at 4:54:53 PM permalink
May I ask where you found it?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
ksdjdj
ksdjdj
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May 5th, 2014 at 4:55:17 PM permalink
www.5dimes.eu, at their bonus casino
HoleintheAce
HoleintheAce
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May 10th, 2014 at 2:40:47 PM permalink
I noticed that game also. My thinking is that winning half a bet on ties likely makes it incorrect to ever surrender, nullifying the value that rule would normally add.
endermike
endermike
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May 10th, 2014 at 6:36:45 PM permalink
here are all 3 versions:

All Ties Win Half Version #1

After each hand played, a new 6 deck shoe is shuffled and dealt. All ties with dealer pay 1 to 2. Blackjack pays even money. Dealer stands on soft 17. No double down. No splits. Early surrender available. Insurance pays 11/5. Seven Card Charlie is automatic winner.

All Ties Win Half Version #2

After each hand played, a new 8 deck shoe is shuffled and dealt. All ties with dealer pay 1 to 2. Blackjack pays even money. Dealer hits on soft 17. No double down. No splits. Late surrender available. Insurance pays 11/5. Seven Card Charlie is automatic winner.

All Ties Win Half Version #3

After each hand played, a new 4 deck shoe is shuffled and dealt. All ties with dealer pay 1 to 2. Blackjack pays 21/20. Dealer hits on soft 17. No double down. No splits. Early surrender available. Insurance pays 11/5. Seven Card Charlie is automatic winner.
kewlj
kewlj
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May 10th, 2014 at 6:42:36 PM permalink
Wait! Winning blackjacks pay even money is a real bad rule. Makes the beginning house edge much larger than what you are saying.

That is a huge house edge, which is why they can afford to give you some back on 'good' rules. Even after the ties pay 1/2 and early surrender, it will still be a big house edge.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
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May 10th, 2014 at 7:34:21 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Wait! Winning blackjacks pay even money is a real bad rule. Makes the beginning house edge much larger than what you are saying.

That is a huge house edge, which is why they can afford to give you some back on 'good' rules. Even after the ties pay 1/2 and early surrender, it will still be a big house edge.



I don't think this is right. His beginning house edge seems correct.

Note that getting half a bet on ties is worth a hell of a lot more than giving up half a bet on every winning blackjack (you get a lot more ties than blackjacks). The lack of splitting and doubling also hurts a lot, of course.

The point about the value of surrender dropping is a good one. I guess you'd have to simulate it to find the actual edge.
kewlj
kewlj
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May 10th, 2014 at 8:14:01 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I don't think this is right. His beginning house edge seems correct.

Note that getting half a bet on ties is worth a hell of a lot more than giving up half a bet on every winning blackjack (you get a lot more ties than blackjacks). The lack of splitting and doubling also hurts a lot, of course.

The point about the value of surrender dropping is a good one. I guess you'd have to simulate it to find the actual edge.



Yeah maybe you are right. I just know that BJ pays even money jumped out at me. I didn't sim the game or anything.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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May 10th, 2014 at 8:27:09 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
ksdjdj
ksdjdj
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May 13th, 2014 at 3:56:53 AM permalink
Quote: HoleintheAce

I noticed that game also. My thinking is that winning half a bet on ties likely makes it incorrect to ever surrender, nullifying the value that rule would normally add.



Sorry about the late reply, been sick.

You are probably at least partly right, i would like to know what the house/player edge % would be for 'perfect strategy' for this game, i don't know if the strategy i posted for normal blackjack early surrender was perfectly correct but i think it would be a good starting point for working out a surrender strategy.

Most likely, the correct play would be to early surrender 16, 15 maybe 14 against a 10 and A ,
but the correct strategy decision MAY be to stand rather than surrender on Hard 17 vs A, since the dealer stands on soft 17???

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