Reposting the Lady Luck casino in downtown Vegas
The closed Lady Luck Casino had a promotion that was not awarded. The Gaming Commission has ordered the owners to give it away in their Sidebar which is on 3rd street in downtown Las Vegas between the closed towers of Lady Luck.
Since the owners no longer have a casino, they are being forced to give away the money at huge player advantage in video poker (15 machines only). They are currently giving away massive bonuses for natural Royal Flush. The bonus currently stands at $9K and is being reduced by $500 every time someone hits.
Play Jacks or Better since there is no advantage to Deuces Wild or any other altered pay table. You must go for the royal flush.
Happy Hour is 3-7 PM. This promotion won't last long. It is one of the nicest bars downtown and the appetizers are half price for happy hour. You won't be slumming. I hope you hit the bonus.
Are they still comping food and/or drink while you play the machines? Doesn't seem like a bad place to spend your time.
Quote: teddysLet's pool our money and get somebody to go down there and play 24/7! We can split the royal bonus. I nominate Paco. Any seconders? Or other nominations?
Are they still comping food and/or drink while you play the machines? Doesn't seem like a bad place to spend your time.
No comping food and drink. During happy hour (3-7) these appetizers are half off. Beer is $3.50. Most of these appetizers is physically large, so it is difficult to eat two of them.
Crab Cocktail. $15.95
Oysters Rockefeller. $14.95
Oysters on the Half Shell. $13.95
Shrimp Cocktail. $13.95
Carpaccio. $12.95
Steamed Clams. $11.95
Crab Cakes . $10.95
Downtown Wings. $9.95
Calamari. $8.95
Spinach & Artichoke Dip. $8.95
Bruschetta. $7.95
You can only play $1.25 at a time so there is no way to increase your bet and play faster. It still could take a long time to hit the royal flush.
JB calculated that you should give up straights and flushes for 3 of the royal flush if the bonus was $12K. I assume that still applies for $9K. I don't know how low the bonus has to go until you keep the straights and flushes.
Quote: pacomartin
JB calculated that you should give up straights and flushes for 3 of the royal flush if the bonus was $12K. I assume that still applies for $9K. I don't know how low the bonus has to go until you keep the straights and flushes.
The return on the 9/5 Jacks game is 119.10% with the $9000 royal. Yes, you should throw away a dealt straight or flush for three to the royal. Also, two to a royal beats a low pair. Two suited high cards should be held over four to a flush with no low cards.
Good luck!
1 ROYAL FLUSH 4 4 7200.00000000
2 RF4 940 940 154.71163422
3 FOUR of a KIND 624 624 80.00000000
4 STRAIGHT FLUSH 32 32 50.00000000
5 FULL HOUSE 3744 3744 9.00000000
6 RF3 43236 43236 7.24569360
7 THREE of a KIND 54552 54552 6.64292322
8 FLUSH 3836 3836 5.00000000
9 STRAIGHT 9516 9516 4.00000000
10 SF4 4380 4380 2.44832410
11 TWO PAIR 122472 122472 1.68085106
12 HIGH PAIR J-A 326460 326460 1.52932470
13 FL4 2h; 1h; 0h 85512 85512 1.02550445
14 RF2 'AH'; 'KH'; 'QJ' 223596 223596 0.93445465
15 ST4 3h0i KQJT 2832 2832 0.87234043
16 RF2 'QT'; 'JT' 75912 86664 0.83356604
17 Low Pair 2-T 670440 662184 0.81646623
18 RF2 'KT' 30768 28752 0.81186104
19 ST4 2h0i QJT9 2976 2496 0.80851064
20 RF2 'AT' 29424 29424 0.79514552
21 ST4 1h0i JT98; 0h0i 2345-789T; 4h1i AKQJ 44928 44928 0.68577241
22 SF3 1h1i 'J98'; 0h0i '345'-'89T' 6684 6684 0.56238073
23 ST4 3h1i AHHT-KQJ9 4872 4872 0.53191489
24 HC3 KQJ 8064 8064 0.49028677
25 SF3 1h2i 'Q98'-'J87'; A-low 'A23'-'A45' 8280 13200 0.47518535
26 HC1 A 135180 281124 0.46838844
27 ST4 2h1i KQT9-QJ98 11808 11136 0.46808511
28 HC1 K 142968 200796 0.46907638
29 HC2 QJ 27816 42504 0.46789227
30 HC1 J-Q 420252 198876 0.47203935
31 SF3 0h1i '234','235'-'79T'; 0h2i '236'-'69T' 12492 11160 0.41379126
32 ST4 0h1i 2346-689T 21300 31548 0.34042553
33 Draw 5 new cards 62940 52812 0.33780344
34 LC1 T 120 0 0.33523393
- Royal Flush
- 4 to a Royal Flush
- Straight Flush
- Four of a Kind
- Full House
- 3 to a Royal Flush
- Flush
- Three of a Kind
- Straight
- Two Pair
- 4 to a Straight Flush
- One Pair (JJ, QQ, KK, AA)
- 4 to a Flush
- 2 to a Royal Flush (JQ, JK, QK)
- 2 to a Royal Flush (JA, QA, KA)
- 4 to a Straight (TJQK)
- 2 to a Royal Flush (TJ)
- 2 to a Royal Flush (TQ)
- 2 to a Royal Flush (TK)
- One Pair (22 through TT)
- 2 to a Royal Flush (TA)
- 4 to a Straight (2345 to 9TJQ, JQKA)
- 3 to a Straight Flush (345 to 89T, 89J)
- 4 to a Straight (9JQK, TJQA, TJKA, TQKA)
- 3 to a Straight (JQK)
- 2 to a Straight (JQ)
- Jack
- Queen
- 3 to a Straight Flush (A23, A24, A34, A25, A35, A45)
- King
- Ace
- 3 to a Straight Flush (all other)
- Discard everything
Note that the only time you keep two unsuited high cards together are when they are Jack and Queen; don't keep JK, QK, JA, QA, or KA together unless they are suited -- just hold the lower-ranking card. As always, there are exceptions: with JA, QA or KA, hold the higher-ranking card if there are two Flush penalties to the lower-ranking card. With QK, hold both cards if there are two Flush penalties to the lower-ranking card. With JK, always just hold the Jack.
Also, suited Ace-Ten is a valid play.
Quote: WizardHere is the Video Poker for Winners strategy, based on a $9,000 royal on a $1.25 bet:
I was typing up my post while you entered yours... I'll compare the two to see if they match.
Quote: Wizard32 ST4 0h1i 2346-689T 21300 31548 0.34042553
I find it interesting that VPW says 4 to an inside straight with no high cards is a valid play. I disagree with that 100%.
Quote: WizardWow! Thanks for the information. You just might see me there tonight. Say "hello" if you do.
Let us know how you do!
after all the years of reading his webpage, i finally got to meet him in person. :)
i went there with a friend and we went halves on the promotion. we played for 7hrs and lost $475 between us. were probably going back tomorrow night to give it another shot.
thanks JB for the JoB strategy. i copied it on excel and made little strips of paper that were easy to follow.
1) Royal Flush
2) 4 to Royal Flush
3) Straight Flush
4) Quads
5) FullHouse
6) 3 to Royal Flush
7) Flush
8) Trips
9) Straight
10) Two Pair
11) 4 to Str Flush
12) Pair JJ-AA
13) 4 to Flush
14) JQs,JKs,QKs
15) JAs,QAs,KAs
16) TJQKr
17) TJs > TQs > TKs
18) Pair 22-TT
19) TAs
20) OESD
21) 3 to SF (no gaps)
22) Gutshot
23) JQKr
24) JQo
25) Jack
26) Queen
27) A23s to A45s
28) King
29) Ace
30) 3 to Str Flush
copy/paste to excel. column width 4 and 15. add in some color, borders, and bold the letters to make it easy to read.
wish some of you hit a royal soon.
Corrected: I see that JB posted it on the first page of this thread, and not on the original thread.
Quote: RobmorrowWhere did JB post the Jacks or Better strategy? I can't find it. On your list, I don't understand what the "JQo", "OESD" and "Gutshot" means?
JQo is Jack Queen Offsuit (unsuited)
OESD is Open ended straight draw (ex: 8-9-10-J)
Gutshot means a straight draw where you have to fill in the middle (7-8-10-J)
Still only opens at 4PM on weekends. The 15 machines were full from 4 to 7.
Quote: RobmorrowJackpot at $7,500 now. Saw some guy hit for $8,000 last night. He's a corporate employee of Lady Luck, and this is the 2nd one he hit. He hit one previously at $10,000. He said they gave him a hard time after winning the first one, so he expects a memo sent out that employees will no longer be allowed to play. He was very lucky as well, and he just invested $400 to hit his 2nd one, and he said about $1000 for the first one.
Paco told me that most of the initial 12K winners were employees of the bar, or their close relatives/friends. I have half a mind to write a letter to Gaming of complaint about it. As was stated earlier in this thread, the jackpot money is supposed to be funds that players had invested in progressive jackpots when the Lady Luck closed. Gaming was absolutely right to make them give the money back somehow, which was decided to be done at the sister property the Side Bar. It doesn't seem right that much of it is going to employees and their friends.
Meanwhile, would there be any strong objections if I sent out a Wizard of Odds newsletter mentioning this? At least that would drive in more real players, to compete with the employees with the rest of the money. I know that would be at the cost of the players here, but I've kept my mouth fairly shut for a week, and there are only a few of us playing on a part-time basis, it seems like.
If it is too small, try this link to a larger version.
also i sent you some strategies for the different jackpot amounts. i used Video Poker for Winners. if you could post them here or if anyone would like them, feel free to email me at apinchbetter4u@hotmail.com.
there are possibly some errors at the bottom. i dont understand why it ranked AQ higher than AK or KJ higher than KQ. i believe they should be equivalent. its also written in poker shorthand to make it easier for me to glance at.
s=suited
o=offsuit
r=rainbow (different suits)
and more obvious stuff like
Quads = 4 of a kind
Trips = 3 of a kind
I don't know what the deal is with employees. I think that different casinos have different policies regarding employee gambling. Mostly they don't care about slot machines. But this pay-table is unprecedented as far as I know for a licensee with a restricted (maximum 15 machines/ no tables) license. Because the bar is so isolated you notice people playing from a limited group (including employees of Hogs and Heifers, a bar which leases space from the owners).
The official name of the license holders (I believe is):
DOWNTOWN RESORTS, LLC
Dbas DOWNTOWN CASINO HOTEL
206 N 3RD ST
LAS VEGAS, NV 89101
Statistics: There are 1402 restricted licenses in Clark County which are permitted to have a maximum of 15 slot machines, but on average they have 10. I think most bars will put in the maximum of 15, while convenience stores often have a lot less.
You would expect a typical restricted license to earn somewhere between $500 and $1500 per day in revenue. To find a restricted license giving away $12,000 bonuses is highly unusual.
In addition there are 60 non-restricted licenses in Clark County that have only slots. The smallest one I've ever seen that went over $1 million per year was a grocery store with only 20 slots, which is a healthy $137 per day per machine. A lot of these are operations that have been in business for decades, as modern zoning does not usually like places with 200 slot machines. They either want little bars or a full size casino with a hotel.
Quote: WizardThe rudeboyoi strategies are one page back. I forgot to mention the obviously questionable plays you just commented on. I agree, it doesn't look right. Since I have nothing to do with Video Poker for Winners (the source of the strategies), there is nothing I can do about it. You may recall JB said of an earlier strategy I posted from the same source, "I find it interesting that VPW says 4 to an inside straight with no high cards is a valid play. I disagree with that 100%."
what do you think you should do with these hands?
QJT8r, QJ98r?
keep all 4 or keep the QJ?
QT98r, JT97r, JT78r, J987r?
keep all 4 or keep the Q or J?
The plan is to work down to $5000 then to give away three prizes at $5000. Then they drop to $2500 and give away another 6 or 7 prizes at that level. After that it returns to the normal $1000. So there could be a player edge for another two weeks.
Quote: pacomartinStill no luck, it's getting frustrating.
It's like the line from LOST "It only ends once...everything else is just progress..." I don't think I could enjoy playing a game where you NEED to get the jackpot payoff to take advantage of the Player Advantage. The frustration factor is too high.
If Lady Luck IS going to reopen, why the push to return this money via this one-time Royal Flush bonus, at the little bar next door? Wouldn't it make more sense to hold off until the Lady Luck opens and THEN offer the bonus?Quote:Q:
Has there been any progress on reopening the Lady Luck?
A:
We get a variation on the Lady Luck theme frequently, as we have for four years since the popular place downtown closed and has been threatening to reopen ever since. You can track the progress -- or lack thereof -- in QoDs 10/22/06, 10/2/07, 3/22/08, and 9/9/08. As you can see, there’s been nothing at all to say for nearly two years since the crash of the fall of 2008, but now there seem to be things happening there.
The Lady Luck closed on February 11, 2006, in order, it was announced at the time, to facilitate a year-long remodel. We’ve been waiting for word on exactly that ever since and now, according to a recent -- and necessarily sketchy --article in the Las Vegas Review-Journal, some preliminary clean-up work is under way, in anticipation of launching the overhaul.
Plans, reportedly, have been submitted to the Las Vegas Planning Commission. The plans need to be approved by the City Council.
They call for expanding meeting space by 8,500 square feet and adding more than 17,000 square feet of pool-deck space; turning 50 hotel rooms into a spa and fitness center; upgrading the rest of the rooms, 634 in total, along with the casino and retail space; rebuilding the pedestrian bridge that connects the two hotel towers on the third floor; renovating some back-of-the-house facilities; and altering the traffic flow.
There’s been no word on a timetable or financing, but the mayor’s office has said that "the project is moving forward."
We’ll keep all you Lady Luck aficionados posted as developments are unveiled.
My immediate thoughts were that it might be a requirement by the commission towards approval for reopening. THAT makes more sense. Which might be a confirmation that Lady Luck will be re-opening soon.
so far we have played about 33,000 hands and are collectively down nearly $2500.
i think we had the absolute sickest hand in the history of video poker tonight.
in white hot aces, a straight flush pays 400 credits or $100 instead of the usual 250 credits.
we get dealt 9d Td Jd Qd Kd
so we go for the royal since we are getting 70:1 on a 46:1 shot.
and we draw...... the Ah
normally we go here with $300 a piece 2 or 3 times a week.
when this hand came up we were down to $180 from $600.
since we are theoretically earning ~$60/hr playing this game, is taking the $100 a better choice in this situation given our circumstances. since it will enable us to keep playing for a longer period of time, the EV we gain from getting to play longer does it make up for the EV lost not going for the royal?
Quote: rudeboyoisince it will enable us to keep playing for a longer period of time, the EV we gain from getting to play longer does it make up for the EV lost not going for the royal?
Bankroll preservation by reducing variance is Un-Wizardish Activity sir. [g]
On the other hand, is someone going to start a thread that is titled "the Hoax that is the EV in VideoPoker" [vbg]
Quote: DJTeddyBearIf Lady Luck IS going to reopen, why the push to return this money via this one-time Royal Flush bonus, at the little bar next door? Wouldn't it make more sense to hold off until the Lady Luck opens and THEN offer the bonus?
The Lady Luck will re-open but it is no longer owned by the same group that owns the Triple George Grill and the Sidebar. The last line in the news release about performance milestones is what is relevant.
Quote: CIMGROUP
CITY OF LAS VEGAS AND CIM GROUP REACH AGREEMENT TO DEVELOP LAND SURROUNDING HISTORIC POST OFFICE BUILDING - SITE OF PLANNED MUSEUM
Jul 02, 2008
-- Plan will create a mixed-use development to complement museum and bring a vibrant destination to downtown --
LAS VEGAS - The Las Vegas City Council today approved an agreement with CIM Group to develop the land adjacent to the museum planned for the historic Post Office Building on Stewart Avenue in the downtown district. Under the agreement, the City of Las Vegas remains responsible for the museum, with CIM Group providing the vertical, retail-oriented, mixed-use development on the surrounding land commonly referred to as the Post Office Block. This public/private partnership will create a vibrant addition to the downtown core anchored by the museum with a mix of retail, restaurants, entertainment and other commercial uses that will enhance the area's appeal as a tourist destination.
"CIM Group has a successful track record in developing projects that serve as catalysts for revitalizing urban districts," said Mayor Oscar B. Goodman. "The site that will house the Mob Museum is going to be a great attraction for Las Vegas and the new retail, restaurants and entertainment will complement not only the new museum but the larger revitalization that is taking place in our downtown core."
The project will generate about $50 million in new taxes over the next 23 years and about 2,500 jobs in downtown Las Vegas.
CIM Group entered the Las Vegas market in October 2007 with the acquisition of the Lady Luck Hotel and Casino, located across the street from the Post Office Block. The company is in the process of finalizing its redevelopment plans for the hotel, which is not part of this public/private development agreement with the city of Las Vegas. The popular Hogs & Heifers and Triple George Grill adjacent to the Lady Luck will remain open during renovations. The goal is to open the Lady Luck and the museum concurrently in 2010.
Even though no city funds are invested in the Lady Luck, as part of its commitment to downtown's revitalization, CIM Group has agreed that the city will receive all property tax increases generated by the Lady Luck development, funds that in typical redevelopment agreements are retained by the developer. In addition, CIM Group will contribute up to $3 million in proceeds from a signage program on the Lady Luck site to the city with the intention that it be used for the direct benefit of the museum. The signage program will be presented to the city for approval in the near future.
The agreement outlines the vision for the future development and provides a foundation for the city to work with CIM Group to advance this critical project.
The partnership will work to gain approvals from government agencies with oversight of the land including the National Park Service. Following approval of the master plan a parking study will be initiated to determine appropriate size of the parking garage that will be developed to serve the museum and the mixed-use project.
"Our goal is to enhance downtown as an inviting, pedestrian district that will engage both visitors and residents," said Jeff Rosen, principal, CIM Group. "Based on our analysis of the area, including economic and demographic factors as well as existing properties, we believe that downtown Las Vegas will grow as a destination and thus a larger asset to the city."
This agreement is conditioned upon CIM Group meeting certain performance milestones in the redevelopment of the Lady Luck. If these terms are not met, the agreement is void and the land reverts back to the city.
About CIM Group
Founded in 1994, CIM Group is a leading real estate investment firm that has successfully invested in dynamic, transitional, and densely populated urban communities throughout North America. The CIM Group relies upon its experienced team of real estate, investment and finance professionals to identify and pursue investment opportunities through three distinct and complementary pools of capital: opportunistic, stabilized and infrastructure. Headquartered in Los Angeles, CIM maintains regional offices in San Francisco and Bethesda, Maryland. For more information, please visit www.cimgroup.com.
7000(1/47)+6.25(8/47)+5(6/47)+1(9/47)-100(46/47)
= ~$53
at 500 hands/hr and $1.25/hand and a return of 113.66%
my hourly is ~$85/hr
my risk of ruin is great for only having $180 left
if i keep the straight flush i would have $280 to play with
so the breakeven point for additional play is ~37 minutes
X = (53/85)(60mins)
if not going for the royal on this hand allows me to play for at least 37 minutes more, it seems +EV to do so.
Quote: teddysAll things being ideal you would have an unlimited bankroll and not have to worry about these decisions. As it is, because of your limited bankroll, sometimes you have to trade E.V. for less variance too keep yourself in the game longer. It's an interesting question of when to draw the line and I wonder if there is a mathematical calculation for it.
There certainly is a mathematical calculation, and it is the one that tells you which order of hands to keep. It is pretty clear that if you have 3 to a royal flush you should give up the straight or a flush since the extended play from those wins is worth less than the (somewhat remote) chance that you will complete the RF. If you have 3 to a RF and a straight flush, you keep the straight flush since that will win you a lot more money and the extended play time is worth a lot more than the remote chance to complete the RF.
With the normal $1000 win for the RF, the remote chance of complete the RF when you have three of a kind does not justify throwing away the straight or the flush.
the EV going for the royal at:
$4500 its about -$.23,
$5000 its about +$10
$5500 its about +$21
$6000 its about +$32
$6500 its about +$42
$7000 its about +$53
so at a jackpot of $5000 or above, you should go for the royal. so the question is with $180 left and a guaranteed $100 win, are there any amounts from $5000-$7000 that you would not go for the royal in order to extend your playing time?
your hourly is about $85/hr playing this game.
apinchbetter4u@hotmail.com
Quote: rudeboyoiwe hit a $7000 royal tonight chopped 3ways. me, my friend, and Rob Morrow from these forums. my friend was the one that ended up hitting it.
Congratulations. I've enjoyed following this. I have no doubt that I would be there if I could.
Quote: rudeboyoiwe hit a $7000 royal tonight chopped 3ways. me, my friend, and Rob Morrow from these forums. my friend was the one that ended up hitting it.
That's awesome, Congrats. So what was your groups total loss before hitting the Royal?
Thanks for contributing the strategy.
Quote: rudeboyoijackpot is currently at $5500. the same guy who won 3 previous times has now won a total of 4 times. i was playing by myself tonight and dropped $900. i had no distractions playing on my own so was playing exceptionally fast today and got in a ton of hands per hour. its definitely more enjoyable playing with others but no where near as profitable.
thanks for the continued update rudeboyoi. btw don't you find it a little suspicious about that guy hitting 4 times? the odds have got to be stacking up against him or he's playing alot of hands!
also, congratulations on hitting one! wish i was there to try a few hours. continued luck in your efforts.
.
