Let It Ride
April 25th, 2014 at 2:33:48 PM
permalink
Hi, I play let it ride at the Horseshoe Casino in Cincinnati, they have of course your standard 3 equal bets, but they also have a "3 card bonus" bet that is just the 3 cards in your hand, players there were telling me that they double the bet from the 3 equal bets with the "3 card bonus" does that make sense odds wise?
Also it is a progessive game (for all five cards) that the wager is $1, I know you called the 5 card side bet a sucker bet, but what about as a progessive game?
It is very similar to the game at the following link
Thanks a lot
Also it is a progessive game (for all five cards) that the wager is $1, I know you called the 5 card side bet a sucker bet, but what about as a progessive game?
It is very similar to the game at the following link
Thanks a lot
April 25th, 2014 at 3:30:38 PM
permalink
Don't play let-it-ride. So boring. Don't play side bets, they have high house edges. Finally, the progressive is also a sucker bet, unless the progressive gets really high. Then it's just a lottery and is probably still not worth it.
Check this out for a start: https://wizardofodds.com/games/let-it-ride/
Check this out for a start: https://wizardofodds.com/games/let-it-ride/
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
April 25th, 2014 at 3:44:44 PM
permalink
If you really like the three card bonus bet, just go play Three Card Poker. With that you are likely to win something with a pair of 2's through 9's.
April 25th, 2014 at 4:01:40 PM
permalink
I am wondering if it is worth the 3 card bonus (by the odds) in addition to the standard 3 equal bets.
April 25th, 2014 at 4:08:35 PM
permalink
Quote: CellomanI am wondering if it is worth the 3 card bonus (by the odds) in addition to the standard 3 equal bets.
I don't understand this question, it's a negative expectation bet (as is the main game) so whether or not it is, "Worth making," is simply going to be a function of the expected loss of the bet and whether or not you determine that the entertainment value you get from making the bet makes it, "Worth making." Same thing as the main game, you can expect to lose $x for each time you bet $y, is that or is that not worth playing the game for you?
It's worth it for me to play Craps, at least a limited amount of Craps, even though I am making a negative expectation bet because of the amount of enjoyment I personally derive from the act of playing Craps. It's worth it for me to play the Baccarat machine at the Rio because the minimum bet is $1.00, and I thought it was fun. It's not worth it for me to sit at a Baccarat Table and play $5+ per hand because I don't like it that much.
It's not worth it for me to play Three-Card Poker, for any amount, because I personally hate Three-Card Poker.
That's all it is, how much you expect to lose is a function of the House Edge, so if you determine your expected loss is x, then you decide whether or not the game is worth playing to you.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
April 25th, 2014 at 4:29:52 PM
permalink
What I am asking is not about the enjoyment of the game, on "The Wizard of Odds" website, under "Let It Ride — analysis and expert strategy" they state that the 5-Card Bonus Bet is a "sucker bet" and a few lines down from that there is the 3-Card Bonus Bet payout chart, with no opinion whether or not to place this additional bet. And as I stated, players told me that they double up ( double their 3 equal bets) their bet on the 3-Card Bonus Bet, What I am asking is the 3-Card Bonus Bet a sucker bet?
April 25th, 2014 at 4:47:34 PM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
April 25th, 2014 at 4:52:16 PM
permalink
Never believe what you are told by players at the table,regarding strategy.For that matter don`t believe the dealers either.
Happy days are here again
April 25th, 2014 at 5:06:38 PM
permalink
"All side bets are sucker bets." -- Wizard
April 25th, 2014 at 5:08:37 PM
permalink
Is there a good source to find out the best betting options?
April 25th, 2014 at 5:25:59 PM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
April 25th, 2014 at 6:06:13 PM
permalink
Quote: CellomanIs there a good source to find out the best betting options?
Yeah, but you're already here.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
April 25th, 2014 at 6:16:47 PM
permalink
Are the odds that bad against the player? What about Baccarat? What games other than Blackjack are good odds?
April 25th, 2014 at 6:29:16 PM
permalink
Baccarat and Craps are the easiest. Blackjack and Video Poker are the best. Ultimate Texas Hold'em is the most fun (for me).
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
April 25th, 2014 at 6:32:26 PM
permalink
Thanks
April 25th, 2014 at 6:37:12 PM
permalink
Quote: CellomanAre the odds that bad against the player? What about Baccarat? What games other than Blackjack are good odds?
Here is a list of the House Edges, by game, for many of the most popular games:
https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/
If you bet Banker on Baccarat, you have a House Edge of 1.06% working against you. If you bet $5, your expected loss is $0.053/hand. However, if your main concern is recreational play, and you wish to consider loss-per-hour, then you should know that Baccarat can often play fast and the Table Minimums are usually greater than $5, except for some Video Baccarat games.
The House Edge on Let it Ride is 3.51%, except, if the Minimum is $5, then you must bet $15 initially. Your expected loss on $15 is $0.5265, making Let it Ride a terrible game. Some paytables are worse than others. The Three Card Bonus bet usually sucks even worse than the main game, in terms of House Edge, however, the Borgata in AC offers the 2.14% House Edge version, which is a lower House Edge than Let It Ride.
Pass/Don't Pass and Come/Don't Come bets at Craps can have a lower House Edge than Baccarat, depending on how you look at it. Some people like to include the Odds they can Take/Lay in the determination of the House Edge, and all Odds bets have a House Edge of 0.00%, so some say that brings down the effective House Edge of the overall play. I disagree, personally. While the Pass/Don't or Come/DC bets are necessary to make an Odds bet, I view them as completely separate bets because the Odds bet itself is not necessary. Thus, I few Craps as a game with a higher House Edge than Baccarat.
Blackjack has a very low house edge, but that House Edge also relies upon Optimal Strategy. The Optimal Strategy for Let it Ride is a comparative cakewalk, and in Baccarat or Craps, you simply make the bets. Some people play Blackjack at a higher effective House Edge due to sub-Optimal play.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
April 25th, 2014 at 6:44:29 PM
permalink
Cool, thanks
April 25th, 2014 at 6:56:54 PM
permalink
Quote: CellomanHi, I play let it ride at the Horseshoe Casino in Cincinnati, they have of course your standard 3 equal bets, but they also have a "3 card bonus" bet that is just the 3 cards in your hand, players there were telling me that they double the bet from the 3 equal bets with the "3 card bonus" does that make sense odds wise?
Also it is a progessive game (for all five cards) that the wager is $1, I know you called the 5 card side bet a sucker bet, but what about as a progessive game?
It is very similar to the game at the following link
http://www.let-it-ride-online.com/?gclid=COrAnZWIsbwCFWJlMgodUC0A5g
Thanks a lot
Do you like the 3 Card bet? Then play it.
If the pay table is 40-30-6-3-1, which is the most common, then you're bucking about a 7% house edge. The base game is about 3%, so you might be better off doubling up on the base game.
The button bet ($1) is there to grind your bankroll. Many LiR table have a $50k max payout; if you're playing $10, you might not get paid all the progressive. The only way it works to make you feel the win is on full houses and quads. Sometimes I play it, sometimes I don't.
The Borgata in AC has a pay table of 50-40-30-6-4-1, which is about a 2% house edge. in that case, the 3 Card bet is better than the base game.
Let it Ride can be very volatile. You can blow through your buy-in without winning a hand, or you can win every other hand with no-brainers (the term for a pair of 10s or better). It's best to buy in with a small amount, like $100 or $200, and play the minimum, and don't rebuy if you tap out. Play the button or don't, it doesn't matter, just don't rebuy if you tap out.
A falling knife has no handle.
April 25th, 2014 at 8:01:41 PM
permalink
I think that's good advice, thanks
April 25th, 2014 at 8:09:45 PM
permalink
Quote: CellomanIs there a good source to find out the best betting options?
At a Let It Ride table you're not gonna find any. And if a "source" does say there is, they are wrong
May 3rd, 2014 at 9:38:45 AM
permalink
Quote: Mission146The House Edge on Let it Ride is 3.51%, except, if the Minimum is $5, then you must bet $15 initially. Your expected loss on $15 is $0.5265, making Let it Ride a terrible game.
It doesn't work like that. The house edge, at least as the Wizard calculates it, is per bet (scroll down to "Analysis" and you'll see). Your expected loss on that $15 is 16.5¢.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
May 3rd, 2014 at 1:07:58 PM
permalink
Even worse, then.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
May 3rd, 2014 at 2:02:06 PM
permalink
Quote: Mission146Even worse, then.
How is losing 16.5 cents per hand worse than losing 52.7 cents per hand? lol
May 3rd, 2014 at 3:30:13 PM
permalink
Quote: tringlomaneHow is losing 16.5 cents per hand worse than losing 52.7 cents per hand? lol
Oh, sorry! I glanced back at my quoted post and read it as 5.2 cents, for some reason. I'm a bit tired, I'm one of those sleep 10 hours in four days kicks. Tomorrow night will be some good sleeping, I think.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
May 3rd, 2014 at 3:31:50 PM
permalink
...5.2 cents on $15 would actually be a pretty good Blackjack game.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
May 3rd, 2014 at 5:09:36 PM
permalink
As someone who plays LiR occasionally, it's not so much that it is a good bet or a bad bet so much that if you aren't getting the hands it's really boring. 3 Card, you get K/J/x you have a bet. It's not a great bet, but it might win. LiR, you get K/J/x you probably got nothin', and you're scratching the felt. That's why I say buy in for $100 or $200 and see what happens. If you crash and burn, walk. But if you get some nice hands, stick around and see what happens.
A falling knife has no handle.
November 27th, 2018 at 9:54:25 PM
permalink
I'm kind of confused about the different optimal betting strategies for Let it Ride and Mississippi stud. Both games have 5 cards right? Suppose in MS you are dealt a high and a low card (say a king and a 5). Your point count is now 2 which is good enough for a x1 wager on third street. If the first community card is another five, your low pair is good enough for a x1 wager on both 4th and 5th streets. Now suppose you're playing LiR and your 3-card deal is a king and 2 fives. Suddenly, as if by (math) magic, this is a bad hand and you need to pull your #1 wager back. And if the first community card is no help, you need to pull your #2 wager as well. What am I missing? Is it the pay tables? Is it MS has a large middle card push spread? Inquiring non-mathematician minds want to know.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
November 28th, 2018 at 4:54:33 AM
permalink
Quote: GialmereI'm kind of confused about the different optimal betting strategies for Let it Ride and Mississippi stud. Both games have 5 cards right? Suppose in MS you are dealt a high and a low card (say a king and a 5). Your point count is now 2 which is good enough for a x1 wager on third street. If the first community card is another five, your low pair is good enough for a x1 wager on both 4th and 5th streets. Now suppose you're playing LiR and your 3-card deal is a king and 2 fives. Suddenly, as if by (math) magic, this is a bad hand and you need to pull your #1 wager back. And if the first community card is no help, you need to pull your #2 wager as well. What am I missing? Is it the pay tables? Is it MS has a large middle card push spread? Inquiring non-mathematician minds want to know.
It has to do with the potential pays of the two games and the math. In the long run, because
1) the dealer has 3 cards hidden in MS
2) you must fold if you do not bet each street
3) the bet is not lost at pair-6 or better
4) the payable is different
The math says to play at both points.
In LIR, you
1) already know 3 cards before you decide
2) can remain in but lessen your bet on a bad hand
3) don't win until pair-10 or better
A small pair isn't worth the risk of leaving your first bet up there, nor your 2nd if the dealer's first card doesn't improve your hand.
Of those, I would say a forced fold and loss of ante in MS is the biggest reason for the difference.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
January 23rd, 2019 at 7:40:55 PM
permalink
The last time I played Let It Ride, I got 3 of a kind on my first hand. I cashed out and left (quickest visit to LiR obviously). I wish I had made the side bet!
January 24th, 2019 at 5:25:47 AM
permalink
The explanation provided by BeachBumBabs is correct and excellent. Just to add to it slightly:
Let it Ride: The only question here is whether or not the bet that you are taking back or leaving out has a positive expected value. In the hand K55, whether you expect a return of 100%+ to leave the bet out there, and you don’t. In the meantime, your base bet is unaffected. Your base bet remains out there even in a hand like 9-3-6-5 mixed suits, even though the hand itself is dead. On a $5 table, the $5 at that decision point (ignoring other bets) needs to have a value of $5+ to justify leaving it out there.
Mississippi Stud: With a $5 Table, you already have $10 out there by the time you come to know the hand is K55. If you fold, you are guaranteed to lose $10. Therefore, to throw out another $5, all you need is for the sum of your bets (read: all $15) to have an expected return greater than $5 or 33.34%. The overall return just needs to be better than being guaranteed to lose $10.
That’s why I don’t really get how people play MS, except they like Variance and the ability to do the 3x bets. You can win or lose a lot very quickly. To me, it seems like you have to chase a lot of trash hands, though.
Let it Ride: The only question here is whether or not the bet that you are taking back or leaving out has a positive expected value. In the hand K55, whether you expect a return of 100%+ to leave the bet out there, and you don’t. In the meantime, your base bet is unaffected. Your base bet remains out there even in a hand like 9-3-6-5 mixed suits, even though the hand itself is dead. On a $5 table, the $5 at that decision point (ignoring other bets) needs to have a value of $5+ to justify leaving it out there.
Mississippi Stud: With a $5 Table, you already have $10 out there by the time you come to know the hand is K55. If you fold, you are guaranteed to lose $10. Therefore, to throw out another $5, all you need is for the sum of your bets (read: all $15) to have an expected return greater than $5 or 33.34%. The overall return just needs to be better than being guaranteed to lose $10.
That’s why I don’t really get how people play MS, except they like Variance and the ability to do the 3x bets. You can win or lose a lot very quickly. To me, it seems like you have to chase a lot of trash hands, though.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
February 26th, 2019 at 9:24:13 PM
permalink
I was going to try Let It Ride when I get to Vegas in March. I did have a question about the Wiz strategy. With 4 cards he says to let it ride with 4 cards to an outside straight with at least one high card and the next bullet point says any 4 to an outside straight with no high cards (zero house edge). Why not just say any 4 to an outside straight? It makes me wonder if I am missing something.
February 26th, 2019 at 10:03:38 PM
permalink
Quote: Wulfgar1224I was going to try Let It Ride when I get to Vegas in March. I did have a question about the Wiz strategy. With 4 cards he says to let it ride with 4 cards to an outside straight with at least one high card and the next bullet point says any 4 to an outside straight with no high cards (zero house edge). Why not just say any 4 to an outside straight? It makes me wonder if I am missing something.
It's been a year since 8ve been there, but I don't think it's any easy task finding Let it Ride tables these days. Might want to ask some locals where they know they are.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
February 26th, 2019 at 11:30:59 PM
permalink
Quote: Wulfgar1224I was going to try Let It Ride when I get to Vegas in March. I did have a question about the Wiz strategy. With 4 cards he says to let it ride with 4 cards to an outside straight with at least one high card and the next bullet point says any 4 to an outside straight with no high cards (zero house edge). Why not just say any 4 to an outside straight? It makes me wonder if I am missing something.
The Wizard clarifies this at the 6:20 mark.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
February 27th, 2019 at 6:09:42 AM
permalink
Quote: Gialmere
The Wizard clarifies this at the 6:20 mark.
I saw the video and it is clear now. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
February 28th, 2019 at 6:30:42 PM
permalink
Quote: Zcore13It's been a year since 8ve been there, but I don't think it's any easy task finding Let it Ride tables these days. Might want to ask some locals where they know they are.
ZCore13
They still have it at the Orleans, I think.
