Current Loss Rebates in Vegas

Alright, looking to optimize the value of my trip with loss rebates and coupon books. With the loss rebates... the following are what I've been able to drudge up:

Cosmo - $100; Immediate - Verified
Tropicana - $200; Immediate - Verified
Palms - $1000; 3 installments, one is immediate - Unknown if they still honor
Plaza/LVC - $100; 2 installments, one is immediate - Unknown if they still honor

Any info you guys can provide on these four rebates, or one that I have missed, I would greatly appreciate it. In particular, the Palms, since it has such a high dollar value.

It's been a while since I did the rebates, so they may have changed.

Palms gives their $1000 rebate in promo chips, which makes the value about 50%.

Tropicana was broken into segment, $100 immediate (or maybe the next day) and $100, 30 days later.

hi

I'm a newbie to this site.
If a casino were to rebate me 20% of all my wager loss in baccarat (ie for every dollar that I wager and lost, the casino will rebate 0.20 cents), how will that affect the house edge on the banker's bet and on the player's bet (if at all there is an effect)??
Assuming the rebate has an effect on reducing the house edge, what percentage of rebate will reduce the house edge to zero irregardless of the player or banker bet??
can someone pls help me out here as I'm not to familiar with the mathematical aspects in baccarat.

Quote: super123

hi

I'm a newbie to this site.
If a casino were to rebate me 20% of all my wager loss in baccarat (ie for every dollar that I wager and lost, the casino will rebate 0.20 cents), how will that affect the house edge on the banker's bet and on the player's bet (if at all there is an effect)??
Assuming the rebate has an effect on reducing the house edge, what percentage of rebate will reduce the house edge to zero irregardless of the player or banker bet??
can someone pls help me out here as I'm not to familiar with the mathematical aspects in baccarat.

I'm no expert in math, but I think there will be a significant reduction in house edge. Here's a link to a page from his Wizard of Macau site, where it explains the reduction in house edge after applying a dead chip promotional rebate. http://www.wizardofmacau.com/general/deadchip.html

You can see that if a player got 1.5% back on their initial buy in (which I don't think they do, the highest seems to be 1.3%), the house edge on the Banker bet gets reduced to only 0.404%.

However, you'd have to figure that a 20% loss rebate would lower the house edge a lot more. I've often wondered why all the high rollers from China go to Macau and settle for free rooms and 1.25 to 1.3% cash back when they can go to Vegas and get a 20% loss rebate. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Speaking strictly as a recreational gambler, getting 1.25% back doesn't mean a thing to me if I've won, because I'm already up. However, if I'm down I'm sure as hell gonna want that 20% rebate a lot more than any 1.25% rebate, especially when I figure to lose more than I win.

Hopefully the Wizard can shed some light on this.

Quote: MaShuai

I've often wondered why all the high rollers from China go to Macau and settle for free rooms and 1.25 to 1.3% cash back when they can go to Vegas and get a 20% loss rebate. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Speaking strictly as a recreational gambler, getting 1.25% back doesn't mean a thing to me if I've won, because I'm already up. However, if I'm down I'm sure as hell gonna want that 20% rebate a lot more than any 1.25% rebate, especially when I figure to lose more than I win.

Hopefully the Wizard can shed some light on this.

Probably a few reasons:

1. It's a lot easier to stay local in Asia.

2. They love the idea of getting a rebate even when they win. And all high rollers expect to win before they play.

3. High rollers typically don't have the ability or the motivation to calculate the EV of the various different loss rebate promotions.

4. The Asian loss rebate is on all money wagered (not just buy-in) so the rebate potentially grows during a big winning session.

5. The Asian loss rebate is automatic, in Vegas it has to be negotiated.

6. Arguably the nicest casinos / suites / hospitality in the world are in Macau, Singapore, Australia, and not Vegas.

7. There actually ARE a quite a few high-rolling Chinese bacc players in Vegas playing with the loss rebates.

example of how dead chip works at 1.3%

round 1 you win, no rebate
round 2 you lose $100, get back $1.3
round 3 you lose $200, get back $2.6
round 4 you win, no rebate
round 5 you win, no rebate
round 6 you lose $100, get back $1.3

Total rebate $5.2, regardless whether you are a net winner or loser.

Quote: kewlj

I


Palms gives their $1000 rebate in promo chips, which makes the value about 50%.

In that case you should do slots/vp for Palms.

Quote: kewlj

Tropicana was broken into segment, $100 immediate (or maybe the next day) and $100, 30 days later.

When I did that promo it was $100 same day and the other $100 the next day

they also have a LOCALS DEAL where they match card status from other casinos

http://www.troplv.com/las-vegas/casino/locals

Does anyone know if any of these only do this for new accounts or do they do it for inactive ones as well? I know in AC if you are inactive for 12 months they will let you do the new player bonuses.

Quote: GWAE

Does anyone know if any of these only do this for new accounts or do they do it for inactive ones as well? I know in AC if you are inactive for 12 months they will let you do the new player bonuses.

It's generally for new members I think. Cosmo is an exception to the rule. Any member can claim the rebate once.

Quote: sodawater

7. There actually ARE a quite a few high-rolling Chinese bacc players in Vegas playing with the loss rebates.

This is what makes me leery of some of those "stats" of a come back. I think those loss rebate agreements for high rollers are what are known as "off-balance sheet" items.

Quote: coilman

When I did that promo it was $100 same day and the other $100 the next day

they also have a LOCALS DEAL where they match card status from other casinos

http://www.troplv.com/las-vegas/casino/locals

We played at the Topicana last week. My wife likes slots so I figured she might as well play where there was a rebate. I sat and played with her and we each put in $100. Of course we both doubled up within 10 minutes so got up an left the Trop. We went over to the MGM and of course lost it all where we had no slot rebate.

Quote: sodawater

Probably a few reasons:



4. The Asian loss rebate is on all money wagered (not just buy-in) so the rebate potentially grows during a big winning session.

Not all of them are based on all money wagered. Quite a few are just the buy-in.

Anyway, does anyone know how much better the 20% loss rebate is compared to 1.3% cash back?

Quote: GWAE

Does anyone know if any of these only do this for new accounts or do they do it for inactive ones as well? I know in AC if you are inactive for 12 months they will let you do the new player bonuses.

When I did it about a year and a half ago, Tropicana and Palms were explicitly new players only.

Quote: newbie49

example of how dead chip works at 1.3%

round 1 you win, no rebate
round 2 you lose $100, get back $1.3
round 3 you lose $200, get back $2.6
round 4 you win, no rebate
round 5 you win, no rebate
round 6 you lose $100, get back $1.3

Total rebate $5.2, regardless whether you are a net winner or loser.

I was wondering if you know, how exactly do they keep track of each wager made? It seems to me by your above example, they would need to keep track of each wager made which, intuitively seems like quite a difficult thing to do.

Could you give me more details please? You can PM if you want to.

Thanks

example of how dead chip works at 1.3%

There are 2 types of chips.
Type A chip (live chip) which you can bet with and exchange for cash. The usual kind.
Type B chip (dead chip) which you can only bet and CANNOT exchange for cash. The only way to get rid of dead chip is by betting and then lose the round.

So you go to the cashier; you give $400 cash to the cashier; the cashier will give you $400 dead chip + $5.2 cash.

round 1: you bet dead chip and win (the dealer will pay you in live chip; equal in value to what you bet in dead chip. So you take back the original dead chip that you bet with + the winnings in live chip)

round 2: you bet $100 dead chip and lose (the dealer will take your dead chip away)
round 3: you bet $200 dead chip and lose
round 4: you bet dead chip and win
round 5: you bet dead chip and win
round 6: you bet $100 dead chip and lose

Now you have lost the $400 in dead chip the cashier has given you. But you have what you have won in live chip from round 1, 4 and 5. Plus the $5.2 cash cashier has given you.