Put Bet

I observed recently a Casino that offered something called a put bet in craps. It was a way to go straight to a point number, like a come bet, but without going through the come line. They even allowed you to take odds on the bet. I know odds are one of the best bets in the house, but I thought a part of why the house allowed it was you had to go through the come line. How does this work? Is this standard? What does it do to the house edge? Any insight would be appreciated.

The Put bet PLAYS the same way as a place bet, except you can't take it down. You get paid as if it were a come bet, with odds.

For example, on a 6 or 8, a place bet of $30 would pay $35. A place bet of $60 would pay $70.
On the same 6 or 8, a Put bet of $5 with 5x odds would pay 5 + 6 x 5 = $35. A put bet of $5 with 11x odds would pay 5 + 6 x 11 = $71.

On a 5 or 9, a place bet of $30 would pay $42. A place bet of $60 would pay $84
On the same 5 or 9, a Put bet of $6 with $24 odds would pay $42. A put pet of $6 with $54 odds would pay $87.

Generally, if you are allowed to Put more than 5x odds, a put bet makes more sense than a place bet, but you can't take the put bet down.

In my thread about Craps Lessons, I mentioned that the instructor went to great length to explain that a place bet was actually a put bet with predetermined odds amount, which is why they have $5/$5/$6 units.

Quote: boymimbo

Generally, if you are allowed to Put more than 5x odds, a put bet makes more sense than a place bet, but you can't take the put bet down.

But you can still take down / turn off the odds as if it was a come bet.

I may not explain this the best, so someone else may want to provide better (more acurate?) info. When you make a 'put' bet, as opposed to a 'pass line' or 'come' bet, you forfeit one of the big player advantages to those bets - the come out roll. So while a 'put' bet with odds may appear to be just as good as a 'come' bet with odds, it actually has a greater house advantage due to the loss of the opportunity of winning with a 7/11 on the comeout.

a put bet is greater than a place bet if its more than 4x odds on a 4, T, 5 or 9 and more than 5x odds on a 6 or 8.

a $5 place on the 4 and 10 is essentially a $1 flat bet and a $4 odds bet.
$1 + $4(2/1) = $1 + $8 = $9 and youre betting $5 total so they pay 9:5
a $5 place on the 5 and 9 is essentially a $1 flat bet and a $4 odds bet.
$1 + $4(3/2) = $1 +6 = $7 and youre betting $5 total so they pay 7:5
a $6 place on the 6 and 8 is essentially a $1 flat and a $5 odds bet.
$1 + $5(6/5) = $1 + $6 = $7 and youre betting $6 total so they pay 7:6

So, if I'm understanding this right, a put bet with full odds on a 3x4x5x table is essentially the same thing as a place bet? All they're doing with the place bet is simplifying the math and processes so you don't have to mess with the contract bet/odds?

Correct.

Quote: CloudStrife1212

So, if I'm understanding this right, a put bet with full odds on a 3x4x5x table is essentially the same thing as a place bet? All they're doing with the place bet is simplifying the math and processes so you don't have to mess with the contract bet/odds?

Close, the full odds are 4x4x5x for the put bet.

So the place is better on the 4 and 10 on a 3x4x5x table? Otherwise it's even unless they let you take more odds on a put bet?

I use the put bet to maintain by bets on the table after a 7 on the come out. If the shooter has been on a roll and I have all of the numbers covered from my come bets I do not like to start getting them covered again from the come and placing them screws with the payouts and makes it harder for me to track the continuous pays on a hot table. I find it much easier to just keep all the come bets up by paying the original line bets and leaving the odds in place that would normally be returned after a 7 out on the come. ie at a $5 base bet with all numbers covered you can have your bets (including odds) stay in place by paying $30 (6 numbers x $5)

Quote: CloudStrife1212

So the place is better on the 4 and 10 on a 3x4x5x table? Otherwise it's even unless they let you take more odds on a put bet?

Yes.

Except the place bets are $1 bets with 4/5/5 odds. As long as the TOTAL meets the minimum, you're good.

I'm fairly sure that with Put bets, the flat bet need to be at the table minimum and then you add the odds. Can anyone confirm that?

But realize that the 4/10 buy bet is better than a place bet.


And, taken from https://wizardofodds.com/craps:

Quote:

If the point is a 4 or 10, the house edge on the put bet with six times odds is the same as a corresponding buy bet. If the point is a 5 or 9, the house edge on the put bet with four times odds is the same as a corresponding place bet. If the point is a 6 or 8, the house edge on the put bet with five times odds is the same as a corresponding place bet. In other words, you have to back up the put bets with 4 to 6 times odds for the house edge to be equal to the best option between a corresponding place or buy bet.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Except the place bets are $1 bets with 4/5/5 odds. As long as the TOTAL meets the minimum, you're good.

https://wizardofodds.com/craps:

theyre actually $1 bets with 4/4/5 odds

the 5 or 9 is $1 flat plus $4 odds.

$1 + $6 = $7 : $5 you bet

Quote: rudeboyoi

theyre actually $1 bets with 4/4/5 odds.

I knew that. It was a typo.

Sheesh, you know, based simply off of that, I was going to run off and start betting the put bet on the 9 and 5, and based off of you're error I'd have been losing odds. Er... maintaining the exact same odds... um... never mind, bad joke.

No, in all seriousness, thanks for all the info everyone. You've been a great help. This all makes a lot more sense now.

Quote: CloudStrife1212

I observed recently a Casino that offered something called a put bet in craps. It was a way to go straight to a point number, like a come bet, but without going through the come line. They even allowed you to take odds on the bet. I know odds are one of the best bets in the house, but I thought a part of why the house allowed it was you had to go through the come line. How does this work? Is this standard? What does it do to the house edge? Any insight would be appreciated.

Here's why the casino will allow you to make this bet, but will NOT allow you to make a don't pass after the point is established:

On the comeout roll, the "rightside" player has a 33% advantage over the house, while the "darkside" bettor has a 45.45% disadvantage. Once a point is established, the advantages reverse: the playing trying to make a point has an 18.79% disadvantage, and the "darkside" player the same advantage. So, they will allow the pass player to bypass the comeout roll and make an even-money bet with an average .406 probability of being won. Nice of them, yes? (Don't forget that these bets are resolved on the comeout only one-third of the time, so the overall advantage belongs to the casino, of course.)

Of course, the only reason to make that bet is to also make an odds bet, which is paid at true odds, with no casino edge. If you take enough odds, the combined HA can be less than that of a place bet on the same number.

I have seen players sneak a don't pass bet in after a point has been established; this is called "past-posting", and is cheating.
Cheers,
Alan Shank