Most common games that cheaters frequent?

Outside of dealer error and card counting which I dont consider cheating as much as strategy...


What games are the most often sought after by real cheaters that are just flat out comming crimes

roulette, slots, blackjack, craps, poker, ect

I know slots had its run for a long timw tih diffrent meathods and we all know of those that watched for roulete wheel bias (then again is not really cheating.. but im going to allowe it- the reaosn I dont want ot consider card counting is because if it was included it would be BJ by far I think.)

Im thinking its either slots or roulette (with use of the wheel bias approach)

Comming crimes?

The "Breaking Vegas" show had stories about how different games were cheated. It's like watching "Mayday" - a show about airplane crashes, in that "Breaking Vegas" also showed how the games were corrected to avoid the cheating, so the problems in these games no longer exist.

In today's casinos, I can't think of many things that can be exploited. You can still "count" blackjack, but surveillance, dealers, and the pit bosses have a low level of tolerance for these things so the advantage is small. You can take advantage of dealer errors such as showing a card in the shoe in blackjack and then counting to that card. And I am sure there are undetected teams of players who still take advantage in counting schemes that have yet to be detected by casinos.

I am sure too that past posting is still a popular cheat where you replace a small bet with a larger one when you know you've won. I would imagine that surveillance would catch on to that one fairly quickly.

I don't think wheel bias exists any more for roulette as the games are made much better now that the bias is eliminated, but I am sure that people still try.

In slots, most RNG issues that have been exploited have been resolved.

I would think that any crime would involve pure theft of chips and slot tickets.

Casino promotions sometimes aren't always thought out very well. Most of what I've observed is petty theft at best, but it leads me to believe for someone dedicated to the task, there are probably more serious opportunties to cheat the casino than the standard age old games that people have already tried nearly every way to beat.

Playing at a biased Roulette wheel is not cheating. It is exploiting a weakness. Of course, it's often too difficult to discover if such a wheel exists to bother exploiting it.

It's been pointed out on other threads that if you're playing three card poker and the dealer is exposing a card, you can use that to a great advantage. Personally, that's not cheating either, but exploiting a weakness.

Cheating can include card swapping, past-post betting, bet capping, etc. You probably won't get away with it more than one or two times before the dealer gets suspicious. Personally, that's not worth the effort.


Possibly the only place where cheating is hard to identify would be two poker players at the same table colluding in some manner.

Also keep in mind if you're caught cheating you can be prosecuted and wind up in jail for a year or two.

Quote: boymimbo

Comming crimes?

The "Breaking Vegas" show had stories about how different games were cheated. It's like watching "Mayday" - a show about airplane crashes, in that "Breaking Vegas" also showed how the games were corrected to avoid the cheating, so the problems in these games no longer exist.

In today's casinos, I can't think of many things that can be exploited. You can still "count" blackjack, but surveillance, dealers, and the pit bosses have a low level of tolerance for these things so the advantage is small. You can take advantage of dealer errors such as showing a card in the shoe in blackjack and then counting to that card. And I am sure there are undetected teams of players who still take advantage in counting schemes that have yet to be detected by casinos.

"Cheating" and "exploiting" are two different animals. If I find a biased roulette wheel that gives me an advantage that is hardly cheating. Heck, casinos sometimes put out pads so I can record the numbers! Card counting isn't cheating. If I can influence dice by a certain throw as long as it is within the rules (one hand, hit the alligator, etc) that is not cheating.

OTOH, the best game to "cheat" to me would be PaiGow Poker. If you have two or even three people with fast hands you could swap cards. Unlike loaded dice which can still fail, this is an instant win. Anything you could past-post would be anoter candidate.

I'd never try it, though I am that personality type that wants to figure a way just for the sake of it.

Quote: AZDuffman

...(one hand, hit the alligator, etc)

I'm sorry, what is "hit the alligator"?

To answer the original question of "most common"; I think Dave hit the nail on the head with...

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Possibly the only place where cheating is hard to identify would be two poker players at the same table colluding in some manner.

In reading Phil Gordon's Book POKER: The Real Deal I remember an anecdote about someone going to a 'friendly' card room to play some poker and saw an old friend of his working the door. The old friend warned the prospective player that the table that he was contemplating sitting at was full of a team just waiting for some unsuspecting prey to take the last open seat so that they could methodically remove him from his bankroll.

Quote: SplittingAA

I'm sorry, what is "hit the alligator"?

The pyramids on the walls of the craps table resemble the back of an aligator.

Don't feel bad. I never heard that expression either. It simply dawned upon me what was meant.

Quote: SplittingAA

I think Dave hit the nail on the head with....

When did I reveal my real name? Not that I mind or care that you know who I am, but using names other than the registered user name sometimes confuses people.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

When did I reveal my real name?

I'm Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. It's just that you leaked a myriad of info about yourself on the 99 Days thread remember? I have a habit of recalling obscure facts that most just glance over. I suppose I should curb my regurgitation of said facts, but I guess I like to show those that I am conversing with that I do pay attention to their comments and that I am not one of those people that spend the entire time thinking about what I'm going to say next while you talk.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

As most of you probably can guess, I'm a DJ. I primarily do weddings. But I'm also a Reverend. I got ordained the same way Joey on Friends got ordained. Click! and I'm ordained.

If you've been paying attention to my posts, you know I was in Vegas this past September, and am coming again in September. Both for a convention. The Wedding Merchants Business Academy. All types of wedding professionals meet to discuss how to do a better job at weddings, as well as how to connect and sell to modern brides.


One evening last year, a lot of us took a tour of three wedding chapels. One stop was at, according to them, the only chapel within eyesight of City Hall. It was also, according to them, the only chapel with an elevator. I wanted to ask if that meant they were the only chapel with two floors.

On the bus to these three chapels, we passed a lot of other chapels. Most looked like condemned buildings. The three we visited were nice.


The highlight was the second stop, at the Elvis Chapel. They took two people out of the group, then we had a mock wedding ceremony where these two got married. It was a very cool wedding.

The back of the chapel opened wide, and a vintage pink Cadilac convertable came into the room. Elvis was driving, and the 'bride and groom' were riding high on the rear seat. They got out, walked tot he alter, then Elvis performed the ceremony, including singing several songs. The whole thing lasted about 20 minutes, but it was a real fun ceremony.


This photo is from their website, not our group, but it gives you the idea:

There's additional seating on the right side. Total capacity about 50, or about 70 if they don't leave room for the car.


The next day, I saw 'Elvis' at the convention. I already knew something about the Vegas wedding business, so I had to ask him a question.

NJ, where I live, as well as neighboring NY, has liberal rules regarding marriage. An internet reverend such as myself can legally marry people. Neighboring PA has very strict rules. A minister must 'minister' to a congregation on a regular basis at a real church, etc.

When I became a reverend, I was amazed to learn that the home of the Drive-Thru wedding, has strict rules similar to PA regarding the officiant.

So I asked 'Elvis' about it. He's not a minister. He's not even an interent reverend. He simply entertains. A local reverend is on hand. In a one minute private meeting with the couple, asks them if they really want to get married, then signs the license.

It's not unlike yesterday's thread where it boiled down to, there are many ways around the law...

---

Shameless plugs:

Viva Las Vegas - The Elvis Chapel
Wedding Merchants Business Academy - The convention I attend in September
Church of Spiritual Humanism - where I got ordained

Reverend Dave Miller.com - my wedding officiating site
Dave Miller Weddings.com - my wedding entertainment site
DJ Dave Miller.com - my non-wedding entertainment site
DJ Teddy Bear.com - my original stage and company name (Even though I use it on forums, I'm kinda phasing it out as a business name)

Quote: SplittingAA

I'm Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. It's just that you leaked a myriad of info about yourself on the 99 Days thread remember?

No offense taken. Yeah, I remember that thread. You've got a good memory.

The manner you used it, right above quoting me, was fine.

My objection comes when people reference a user's real name without ANY means for other memebers to know which member is being named.

As an interesting aside, as part of our training, we were basically taught how to cheat using a number of cheat moves. It was so we would recognise the moves if we saw them. Most of them involved some form of misdirection, such as on roulette, deliberately stretching to put on a late bet, whilst using this distraction to place chipps on the winning column.

I would think that capping off or taking away chips is by far the most common kind of cheating. I just assume that since there is a natural urge to do that behavior.

Am I wrong? Do cheaters avoid this behavior thinking that they will be easily caught?

You would thinks so, but in my experience, they dont. Not that I have seen many cheaters, only had 2 I know of in my 3 year career.

But we did recently have a case of pure theft. A senior dealer was passing out £25 chips (black) hidden inside stacks of dark blue chips to a customer, who was then cashing them out and splitting the proceeds. The both were prosecuted as far as I am aware.