24Bingo
24Bingo
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August 16th, 2012 at 2:34:49 AM permalink
I was wondering about the stop reels command on video slots - they look like they just stop the reels in their tracks, but that seems too risky. Is there some technique they use to create that illusion? Is it just change blindness?
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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August 16th, 2012 at 6:14:25 AM permalink
You gotta remember that this is VIDEO slots you're talking about.

When you hit that "stop" button, it is not the next three symbols on each virtual wheel that come to a screeching halt on the screen, but the three intended symbols that will suddenly be the next ones to roll down and stop.

OR, because they are spinning so fast that you don't realize it, they continue spinning for a partial revolution to the intended position.

Either way, the "Stop" button changes nothing except the speed of the game.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Mission146
Mission146
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August 16th, 2012 at 8:33:03 AM permalink
Exactly.

The only thing that you actualy, "Stop," on a video slot machine is the random number generator, which occurs after you have pressed the, "Spin," button, or, "Max bet," or what have you. The reels, "Spin," for no reason other than effect. The video slot machine could instantaneously display the result of the, "Spin," without any actual, "Spinning," if it was programmed in such a way, of course, that would be far less entertaining.

I should imagine that the house loves players who believe in such a way, or use the, "Stop," button for any other reason, though. Given that such players are playing at a negative ER, it just means that they are losing their money faster. I'd prefer to get my money's worth by at least watching the full revolution of the, "Spinning," reels. I suppose the only exception to this is hitting the, "Spin," button after a result in, "Free Games," simply because I don't feel compelled to sit there and watch every single individual line pay on a small win. I'm also stopping the RNG (or it will stop itself after the line pays are displayed) during Free Games, and essentially playing the machine faster, but again, since I can't know what the RNG result will be, I'm just theoretically losing faster by not watching the Free Games play out on their own.

I've witnessed any number of players, "Mash," the spin button and get result after result and then complain about the machine, "Never winning." The funny thing about that is that such players will often be ahead, at some point, but they don't even notice because they are too busy mashing and waiting for the jackpot. I've even heard people say that the machine pays out at a better percentage as a reward for playing faster, which is patently ridiculous. It's a computer program, the payout percentages are pre-determined and are only affected by how many credits you bet...and that is only the case with a payout table that is not perfectly graduated!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mooseton
Mooseton
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August 16th, 2012 at 7:04:41 PM permalink
I noticed on the slot machine "Mystical Fortune" you can very easily predict the wild symbols on the last reel. If you see a run of cards and then hearts, touch the screen quickly and you have a very easy shot at having multiple wild symbols on the reel. You can observe and try this with different symbols on maybe the last 3 reels. Thing is, I don't think it makes much of a difference, if any. If you stop all wilds on the last reel, more than likely you wont have a winning combination. Fun to experiment.

It works pretty good in the free spins bonus though. The board flips over and I try it on the now 2nd and 3rd reels. FWIW, I believe the Rng hasnt stopped until you touch the individual reels. But I don't really know that, just a guess.
$1700, 18, 19, 1920, 40, 60,... :/ Thx 'Do it again'. I'll try
dwheatley
dwheatley
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August 16th, 2012 at 7:20:32 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Exactly.

The only thing that you actualy, "Stop," on a video slot machine is the random number generator



I doubt this is true. I think the moment you have hit the Spin button, the RNG is drawn. In my jurisdiction, there are signs saying you cannot alter the outcome of the game by pushing a 'stop' button. I think it only stops the reels earlier, which are just spinning for show, on the same spot they would have stopped on.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
rdw4potus
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August 16th, 2012 at 7:25:00 PM permalink
Quote: Mooseton

I noticed on the slot machine "Mystical Fortune" you can very easily predict the wild symbols on the last reel. If you see a run of cards and then hearts, touch the screen quickly and you have a very easy shot at having multiple wild symbols on the reel. You can observe and try this with different symbols on maybe the last 3 reels. Thing is, I don't think it makes much of a difference, if any. If you stop all wilds on the last reel, more than likely you wont have a winning combination. Fun to experiment.

It works pretty good in the free spins bonus though. The board flips over and I try it on the now 2nd and 3rd reels. FWIW, I believe the Rng hasnt stopped until you touch the individual reels. But I don't really know that, just a guess.



Usually, the wilds come up more often on the last reels since they're less likely to matter when they're over there. Are you sure you're actually making a difference? I'd expect the hit frequency of those symbols to be high to begin with.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Mission146
Mission146
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August 16th, 2012 at 7:28:36 PM permalink
Quote: dwheatley

I doubt this is true. I think the moment you have hit the Spin button, the RNG is drawn. In my jurisdiction, there are signs saying you cannot alter the outcome of the game by pushing a 'stop' button. I think it only stops the reels earlier, which are just spinning for show, on the same spot they would have stopped on.



That's exactly what I am saying. When you first hit, "Spin," you stop the random number generator and get the result. The RNG cycles until that point, it doesn't just hop instantaneously from one result to another, for instance, it doesn't decide the outcome of the next spin during the spin currently active.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
Mission146
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August 16th, 2012 at 8:25:07 PM permalink
Quote: Mooseton

I noticed on the slot machine "Mystical Fortune" you can very easily predict the wild symbols on the last reel. If you see a run of cards and then hearts, touch the screen quickly and you have a very easy shot at having multiple wild symbols on the reel. You can observe and try this with different symbols on maybe the last 3 reels. Thing is, I don't think it makes much of a difference, if any. If you stop all wilds on the last reel, more than likely you wont have a winning combination. Fun to experiment.

It works pretty good in the free spins bonus though. The board flips over and I try it on the now 2nd and 3rd reels. FWIW, I believe the Rng hasnt stopped until you touch the individual reels. But I don't really know that, just a guess.



Is it the Mega Line or the Five-Reels? That doesn't really affect anything, just curious.

The RNG stops when you hit the, "Spin," button. The individuals reels being touched does not matter in the slightest, you are simply expediating an already determined result.

Like RDW4Potus stated, you're going to see many Wilds on a reel that is typically inconsequential, or of minor consequence, regardless of the machine. To that extent, if that happens to be one of the reels, then you can, "Predict," that they will appear on every single spin and be correct much of the time.

QuickHits by the Slot Machine Gods at Bally Technologies is an excellent example of such a thing. The, "Free Games," symbols that come up are heavily weighted on the second and third reel and there are not as many on the fourth reel because you get a ding when you hit one on the second, then a louder ding on the second and third, and then the, "Free Games," if you hit one on all three middle reels. This is weighted with the intention of providing many, "Near misses," on the Free Games to keep the players spinning...and possibly encourage them to put in more money if they are, "Close," to getting Free Games within the last few spins of being tapped out.

It should also be noted on QuickHits that the most QuickHits symbols that can show up per reel are:

Reel 1: 1

Reel 2: 2

Reel 3: 3

Reel 4: 2

Reel 5: 1

The design is this way for a few different reasons. Here are the pays, assuming non-progressive:

3 QuickHits: 1 FOR 1

4 QuickHits: 5 FOR 1

5 QuickHits: 10 FOR 1

6 QuickHits: 50 FOR 1

7 QuickHits: 100 FOR 1

8 QuickHits: 1,000 FOR 1

9 QuickHits: 5,000 FOR 1

---

The most common way to see the QuickHits is one or more on the third reel. This accomplishes a variety of things in terms of player retention:

1.) It keeps the QuickHits results visible. Though we read from left to right, a player's attention is largely going to gravitate to the center of this machine because the Free Games can only be had if reels 2-4 have a Free Games symbol, and again, the majority of your QuickHits are going to show up, by necessity, on reels 2-4.

-It's better the player not look at the first reel, anyway, it's largely a mixture of Wilds and low-paying symbols. The high-paying symbols are heavily weighted to the fourth and fifth reel. There are quite a few on the second reel, as well, but not as many high-paying symbols on the third. The third reel is largely low-paying symbols, and of course the QuickHits and Free Games symbols. There are a few Wilds on the third reel, but not many.

2.) If the player hits Three QuickHits on the third reel and nowhere else, (one of the most common ways you will see QuickHits) then no other win can possibly be had because it pays 1 FOR 1 and prevents any other paying result from happening. At the same time, however, the player is happy to see three QuickHits and, much as is the concept with Wilds and Bonus Games, will be led to believe that more are coming.

-It's funny because I imagine that if you had alternating results of not other than a losing result followed by three QuickHits down the middle, a player would reach for another $50 after losing $50 at a rate not even close to approaching the expected return!!!

3.) You could have one-two QuickHits show up on the third reel (absent any other QuickHits) and they might serve as a, "Line blocker," on what, if completed, would have been a pretty decent payout. In these instances, the players will be compelled to feel as though they were, "Really close," to hitting said decent payout. The Triple Blazing Sevens QuickHits machine is an excellent example of having a line blocked by the third reel. The best part of that machine is that many players don't really differentiate between the Single-Double-Triple Sevens very well and just figure that a line of Five Sevens kicks ass. It doesn't, but it compels many players to think they've had even more, "Near misses," on good payouts than they have actually had.

4.) The Free Games symbols, if only one-two of them, can also serve to block lines and make players think they had a close, "Near miss," on decent payouts. In addition, if you get one on the second reel and one on the third, but not the fourth, many players will be compelled to think more are coming!

Great machine.

I've never played Mystical Fortune. If I happen to notice it and remember, I'll stick a $5.00 in a penny one and play one line at $0.01/line for you and figure out what the player retention angle is and let you know. Video Slots must be compelling, above all, so there is ALWAYS a player retention angle.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mooseton
Mooseton
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August 17th, 2012 at 2:48:25 PM permalink
The game I was talking about is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giv8jhzwbyA

That's just a link to the bonus round. The game has 6 reels. And 180-200 lines.

I am sure that I'm purposely stopping the 6th reel on the string of wilds. But it just won't matter because the game's winning lines won't reach all the way to the 5th or 6th reel. It's super easy to do on the last reel and not so easy to do on 5th reel. On the 4th reel you can do it but it's pretty tough. On the 4th reel I believe that the "trigger string" of cards then hearts appearing also has a "false trigger string" of those symbols that doesn't have a string of wilds following it. (instead it follows with a string of ring symbols.)

The thing is though, has the rng already stopped during the free games? Is your payout already decided?
$1700, 18, 19, 1920, 40, 60,... :/ Thx 'Do it again'. I'll try
Pokeraddict
Pokeraddict
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August 17th, 2012 at 3:12:41 PM permalink
There are places where slot machines must require skill. These are typically gray machines in bars and gas stations trying to skirt laws to become an amusement game under Dave and Buster or Chuck E Cheese laws in states without casinos. Virtually all real casinos are going to have slots that cannot have outcomes changed by a stop button.

Harrah's Cherokee is the only casino I can think of that has (or had as I have not been there in years) slots that require(d) skill or could have skill change the outcome of a spin. They had to make their slots play that way so that the machines would fall under the existing NC video poker laws at the time that their license was based on, a law that has since been repealed.

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