Water heaters.
The first is that sometimes I inadvertently move the switch from ON to OFF rather than to STAND-BY. When that happens, the heater needs to be re-lit, and 1) I've no idea how and 2) I'm scared stiff of lighting water heaters; I've heard and seen the results of too many accidents with the things (I've also ahd a few close calls with the stove). Fortunately this problem gets solved quickly by calling the maintenance guy and tipping him 20 pesos.
The second is that I don't seem to get the water hot enough. Typically I'll tunr it on, wait for 25 minutes, then turn on the shower. Usually the water comes out warm rather than hot.
Should I wait longer, say 35 minutes? Or should I wait for the appliance to turn off, meaning its reached max temp?
It didn't matter til a few weeks ago, when the weather was still warm. Now it's beginning to get a bit chilly in the evening, making warm water insufficient for a shower. Especially so after the shower, when there's no residual steam to keep the bathroom kind of warm.
(1) Yes, let the heater run until the burner shuts off if you really want the water at full temperature. It's too hard to guess when there is an adequate supply "hot enough" for your shower.
(2) Put a piece of tape or string or something on the switch in a manner that makes it awkward to turn it to "off", just as a reminder to yourself.
(3) I'm not sure just what your situation is -- rent, own, whatever -- but here is one option, if it is applicable in your case. Install one of those in-line, tankless water heaters. They are intended to be able to heat water to an appropriate temperature as fast as you use the water. The objective is to avoid the cost of the heat losses from the tank when you are not actually using the hot water. I have only used one of these myself at a house where I stayed in Egypt in 1981, and I didn't think it worked very well. However, I have seen them advertised much more recently in the US, and I suspect that what is being marketed here and now would perform much better than what I saw then and there.
Electric 110/240V Point-of-use water heaters
Quote: NareedFortunately this problem gets solved quickly by calling the maintenance guy and tipping him 20 pesos.
OMG I'm not the only one! Seriously, Mexican water heaters and propane tanks are both items that you have to deal with on a regular basis living in Mexico that scare the hell out of me. For some reason they are normally mounted outside, in your "service patio" (not sure how to say in English), so the pilot lights sometimes blow out. And, yes, you give the gasman your pocket change to deal with them for you if you're anything like me. For those who haven't been south of the border, the gasman is the guy who wakes you up in the morning yelling "GAS!" Not to be confused with the waterman and the milkman, who both do the same thing. Also there's the guy who rings a bell to let you know that the garbage truck is coming. And roosters. Yeah, sleeping in in Mexico is probably restricted to the tourist enclaves....
Yep, except that I think Nareed (in spite of her anxieties about lighting pilot lights) would prefer to continue to use propane, perhaps for cost reasons.Quote: Paigowdan
At 1.5KW for a ten-minute shower, the tankless version uses 2.5 cents of electricity, at 10c a KWH. (0.167 * 1.5KW = 0.25KWH). $179 and up to puchase a unit, plus shipping.
Quote: DocThree suggestions:
(1) Yes, let the heater run until the burner shuts off if you really want the water at full temperature. It's too hard to guess when there is an adequate supply "hot enough" for your shower.
I should have realized that on my own....
Quote:(2) Put a piece of tape or string or something on the switch in a manner that makes it awkward to turn it to "off", just as a reminder to yourself.
I placed a tape on the off position with "OFF" on it. I still managed to turn it off. I'm like that.
Quote:(3) I'm not sure just what your situation is -- rent, own, whatever -- but here is one option, if it is applicable in your case. Install one of those in-line, tankless water heaters.
We own the apartment, so we can do pretty much anything. I've heard that recomendation before, too. Back at the house we had two heaters (long story) one of which was very small with a tiny tank to match. That one reached max temp in five minutes or so. Anyway, people with in-line heaters swear by them, but I've heard some concerns about them as well. I'd hate to switch and find out it's worse.
Quote: heatherOMG I'm not the only one!
Oh, far from it. In large households invariably someone learns to do it, but getting a pro, or at least an amateur, to do it for you is as mexican as, well, tamales. :)
Quote:Seriously, Mexican water heaters and propane tanks are both items that you have to deal with on a regular basis living in Mexico that scare the hell out of me. For some reason they are normally mounted outside, in your "service patio" (not sure how to say in English), so the pilot lights sometimes blow out.
When we lived in a house, the patio was on the roof (odd house). At the appartment now there isn't one, but there's a service area indoors where the washer, drier, service room and water heater are. It's well ventilated, but it doesn't blow out the pilot light. It's been all me both times (thus far).
Quote:And, yes, you give the gasman your pocket change to deal with them for you if you're anything like me.
See above.
Quote:For those who haven't been south of the border, the gasman is the guy who wakes you up in the morning yelling "GAS!"
Acutally it's "EL GAS!!" And, man, are those guys loud!
They're not so common in certain areas. In the better off sections of Mex City people have stationary gas tanks, which are refilled every two weeks or so by a big gas truck with a a very long hose. At our building, there's a big, communal tank by the exit gate. In some parts, too, they have gas lines now, but that's rather rare still.
Quote:Not to be confused with the waterman and the milkman, who both do the same thing. Also there's the guy who rings a bell to let you know that the garbage truck is coming. And roosters. Yeah, sleeping in in Mexico is probably restricted to the tourist enclaves....
Roosters are almost absent now from most of the city. Some people like keeping them as pets. The water guy usually rings the doorbell. The milk trucks aren't as common since ultrapasteurized milk began to be sold at stores. Those things keep unrefrigerated for up to 8 months. The trucks from Alpura have a horn that sounds like a mooing cow (I think that's cute). The trash bell is stil a classic. Fortunately they don't work on weekends in my area, and this time my room doens't face the street.
Quote: PaigowdanI was making a recommendation; Nareed fully decides. If Nareed's house has electricity, it's just another option, and very inexpensive.
Thank you.
Still, "if Nareed's house has electricity"? Come on. Where do you think I live? New York City? :P
Quote:At 1.5KW for a ten-minute shower, the tankless version uses 2.5 cents of electricity, at 10c a KWH. (0.167 * 1.5KW = 0.25KWH). $179 and up to puchase a unit, plus shipping.
I really don't know what the rates are for electricity. Not to mention the complications resulting from the closure of one government-owned electric company and its replacement by another government-owned company. Charges often don't match use, for one thing. it's a bit of a mess. Anwyay, I've no idea which option is cheaper just now.
There are other costs, too. Do we keep the old heater alongside the new one or replace it? Either way we'd need to pay a pro to do the work. There's also the matter of importing the equipment. It can get stcuk in customs for weeks. It might require the use of a customs agent (you never know with these things). it might require payment of import duties (doubtful given NAFTA, but again...). it might require some sort of permit. Well, it's not as easy as it looks when you cross a border.
But it's a thoughtful suggestion and I appreciate it. I had not considered electric heaters at all.
Initial cost can be 3-5 times a normal tank. This is somewhat offset by the much longer life of the tankless. And it is my understanding that the electric units are much more expensive to operate than the gas or propane powered ones.
Since you are not continually heating your water, the water in the lines will cool down and you will find that you need to run the water a little longer than what you may be used to when you first turn it on. I understand that this can be a real problem in larger homes.
In the short haul, they are expensive to install, but more than pay for themselves over their lifetime.
Quote: ikilledjerryloganEveryone should have carbon monoxide detectors in their dwellings.
The only gas-using appliances we have are the heater, washing and drying machines, which are in their own well-ventilated area, plus the stove and the oven in the kitchen, where the window is open at all times even in winter.
Winter can be pretty cold in Mex City. Not as bad as other places, and we don't get snow, but temps do go down to 5 degrees C at sunrise and hover around a max of 12 to 15 C late in the afternoon.
Anyway, CO is a serious matter. All burning of hydrocarbons (coal, wood, charcoal, gas, propane, etc) produces CO and CO2, mostly the latter though. Both these gases are heavier than air, but as they are produced quite hot they do tend to float in air. Ergo any indoor use applainces that produce them should be in ventiated areas or employ an air extractor.
For my room I have an electric space heater, without exposed coils or anything like that. And anyway I turn it off when I go to bed.
Quote: progrockerI've had experience with the propane water heaters in Guatemala and the on-demand electric shower heaters in Latin America and Asia, and I would take the propane tank every time if offered a choice. I've been shocked by the latter just a few times too many and I wonder when those shocks would become an electrocution. Way scarier to me then lighting a propane tank.
My favorite option is still the black cistern (bomba de agua) on the roof. Water comes out of the taps hot even if you don't have a water heater. I lived in GTO, where you still can't drink the tapwater (although I think they've started making the tapwater drinkable in León), so we only ever used it for washing, and thus never needed it cold.
Quote: heatherMy favorite option is still the black cistern (bomba de agua) on the roof.
Tinaco. Oops! Sorry. This isn't the Spanish word of the day thread :)
Quote:I lived in GTO, where you still can't drink the tapwater (although I think they've started making the tapwater drinkable in León), so we only ever used it for washing, and thus never needed it cold.
I guess you didn't have a filter for the tap water, and bought Electropura 20 liter jugs off a truck. We tried the jugs for a while at home, but changing them at the dispenser was a major pain. they're over 20 kilos a piece. So we got back to a Turmix filter. It works well enough
Quote: progrockerI've been shocked by the latter just a few times too many and I wonder when those shocks would become an electrocution. Way scarier to me then lighting a propane tank.
Well, if the shock didn't kill you then it wasn't going to.
Seriously, it must have been improperly grounded, or not grounded at all. Electricians in Latin America tend to be self-taught or learned by being apprenticed to someone who knew his stuff. Some are graduates from "technical" schools.
Shocks are scary, but easily avoidable. While you get an electrician to solve the problem, simply wear leather work gloves when approaching the appliance.
Quote: NareedI guess you didn't have a filter for the tap water, and bought Electropura 20 liter jugs off a truck. We tried the jugs for a while at home, but changing them at the dispenser was a major pain. they're over 20 kilos a piece. So we got back to a Turmix filter. It works well enough
In GTO GTO, guys walk up and down the cobblestone alleys in the mornings yelling "AGUA!" with those jugs on their shoulders. They bring them into your house and set them up for you if you tip them. Those jugs of water cost a fraction of what they do in the US. The capital is also the only city in the state where guys still sell big cans of milk on their shoulders yelling "LECHE!" in the mornings. And there are roosters, in greater quantities in the cheaper parts of town and fewer in the more expensive neighborhoods.
Quote: heatherIn GTO GTO, guys walk up and down the cobblestone alleys in the mornings yelling "AGUA!" with those jugs on their shoulders. They bring them into your house and set them up for you if you tip them.
The guys in the truck will, too. The problem is what do you do the rest of the week when they're not there. Lifting 20+ kilos 1.55 meters, then tipping over the open container is hard.
Quote:Those jugs of water cost a fraction of what they do in the US.
I wouldn't know about that.
Quote:The capital is also the only city in the state where guys still sell big cans of milk on their shoulders yelling "LECHE!" in the mornings.
I've heard of such things from my parents, but never saw it. I do recall the truck froms La Laguna (now known as Lala) and Alpura delivering milk in glass bottles daily.
Living in Minnesota, I've had unfortunate times without a working water heater. While our gas water heaters are typically natural gas, I'm assuming a propane tank is similar. Oftentimes grit and rust can settle at the bottom of your tank, reducing its efficiency. On the side of the tank near the bottom is a spigot (looks like one on the side of a house). You can fill a bucket from that spigot until the water runs clear (usually after a couple gallons). This might help to increase the speed of heating your tank as well as alleviate some of that propane bill.
Quote: kneelb4zodWhile our gas water heaters are typically natural gas, I'm assuming a propane tank is similar.
Actually I'm not really sure what kind of gas we use here. I assumed propane, but the trucks say "liquefied gas." For all I know it's antural gas. I simply have no idea.
Quote:Oftentimes grit and rust can settle at the bottom of your tank, reducing its efficiency. On the side of the tank near the bottom is a spigot (looks like one on the side of a house). You can fill a bucket from that spigot until the water runs clear (usually after a couple gallons). This might help to increase the speed of heating your tank as well as alleviate some of that propane bill.
I appreciate the advice. I think we have someone over to do maintenance twice a year or so, I'd need to check. Anyway, there's no way I'm messing with anything other than the ON/OFF switch. To be honest I wouldn't even do that much if I could possibly avoid it. I've seen hot water burns and I'm not going there. Oh, I know it should be safe to flush the tank if it's been off for hours, but I'd rather not touch anything.
But I will ask the maintenance guy about it next weekend.
Having been in Thailand and Cambodia, I've seen rural/surburan/urban "point of use" water-heating systems, as well as single-unit HVAC unit systems, to be the best solution on a cost-effective and reliability basis where electrical service is at least semi-reliable in relation to a modern country such as Mexico.
For 2 or 3 cents per shower or laundry wash, and $179 per single-instance install, it might be a good solution if electrical service is indeed reliable in your native country. But this might not be the case in some parts of Mexico, and you can tell us. It seems to be extremely effective, reliable, and efficient in Thailand, Vietnam, China, and Cambodia.
Plus, there is less carbon foot-print.
When loading and transporting Propane canisters for the very same purpose where it is more expensive, more dangerous, and more troublesome and inconvenient in terms of paying and shipping for the canister transport - (you probably burn up $6.00 in fuel and effort for it all when you think about it, forget about the human time and labor) - yet it is still a very reliable as a fuel source, and the way to - if you are living "way far off an electrical grid."
Quote: PaigowdanRun whatever heating system you want, - you owe absolutely no explanation to me.
Well, no. But if you're going to the trouble of making recommendations, you deserve to hear why I think they're good or not.
Quote:Having been in Thailand and Cambodia, I've seen rural/surburan/urban "point of use" water-heating systems, as well as single-unit HVAC unit systems, to be the best solution on a cost-effective and reliability basis where electrical service is at least semi-reliable in relation to a modern country such as Mexico.
Oh, the service is reliable, as in it's almost always on. It's not very reliable in quality, though, as everyone knows you need a regulated power supply w/spike suppressor built-in to protect your expensive appliances.
Quote:For 2 or 3 cents per shower or laundry wash, and $179 per single-instance install, it might be a good solution if electrical service is indeed reliable in your native country.
Well, this is where it gets complicated. near as I can make out from my electric bill, a kilowatt-hour goes for US $0.33, and that's with the somewhat inflated exchange rate of recent days (all the pundits say it will come back down). from the numbers available at the electric company's website, it comes out to between $0.25 and $0.27.
Pricing gas is harder. The official listed price is in either kilograms or liters, but the gas bill comes in cubic meters.
In other words, I need expert help...
Quote:But this might not be the case in some parts of Mexico, and you can tell us.
Not too long ago blackouts were frequent. I still keep a flashlight in my room at all times. I used to keep a candlestick with candle, too, but gave that up.Now blackouts are not unheard of, but they are far less frequent than they used to be. I've no idea about the rest of the country, though.
Quote:Plus, there is less carbon foot-print.
I know that's important for some people. But I just can't take the idea seriously. Sorry.
Quote: NareedWell, no. But if you're going to the trouble of making recommendations, you deserve to hear why I think they're good or not.
I know.
Quote: NareedOh, the service is reliable, as in it's almost always on. It's not very reliable in quality, though, as everyone knows you need a regulated power supply w/spike suppressor built-in to protect your expensive appliances.
You do need fairly perfect power for computers and electronics to prevent blowing out a chip or a TV set. But a water heater or a room heater doesn't fall into these expensive applicances catagory. If it's 10% over power or 10% under power - which is a REALLY SLOPPY and huge margin for any power supply company - no matter what the hell third-world country you're in - (if they supply power, it'll be within a 10% margin if you got power, 105V to 130V range), then the ONLY thing that can run without a blow-out is a third-world low-wattage heating decice.
Then if they even supply electricity in the first place, - then a $179 water heater or $60 room heater is exactly the third-world appliance that you give you a warm shower without care about power - before power fluctuations would knock out any other sensitive electrical device you are trying to run off from the power grid in that country.
If I were living in such conditions that couldn't support a laptop, Apple I-Phone, or WiFi access, I would still be worrying about my daily shower and shave with hot water to wash my ass and face first. Call me a spoiled American.
Cheap water heaters are designed for serious and severe "third-world service" if you are using a 1.5KW water heater to take a bath or a shave if you have power that is on.
But if you are living in these conditions, the difference between a propane canister water heater and a 110V water heater I guess is a toss up. If the roads are good enough and safe to drive six or so miles to get a canister of propane or LPG fuel without being kidnapped, then they also might have a minimum electrical serice too.
Personally, I spend about $160 a month from Nevada Power and Light (now Nevada Energy, etc.) in the city of Las Vegas for Air conditioning, an electric stove, a washer and dryer crammed into my bathroom, but the hot water comes from the condonimium assocaition fees.
If I had to also spend for hot water, I'd buy me the $179 "point-of-sevice" water heater for the shower and bathroom sink, install it in the bathroom under the sink, and be done with it. For three cents a shower or shave.
Quote: PaigowdanI was making a recommendation; Nareed fully decides. If Nareed's house has electricity, it's just another option, and very inexpensive.
At 1.5KW for a ten-minute shower, the tankless version uses 2.5 cents of electricity, at 10c a KWH. (0.167 * 1.5KW = 0.25KWH). $179 and up to puchase a unit, plus shipping.
The average price of electricity in the USA is 11.51 cents per kWh, but it ranges from 7.58 cents/kWh in North Dakota to 20.33 cents/kWh in Connecticut (and even higher in Hawaii). Those are 2009 rates.
Quote: NareedWell, this is where it gets complicated. near as I can make out from my electric bill, a kilowatt-hour goes for US $0.33, and that's with the somewhat inflated exchange rate of recent days (all the pundits say it will come back down). from the numbers available at the electric company's website, it comes out to between $0.25 and $0.27..
Wikipedia says in 2008 the average in Mexico were equivalent to U.S. 10.6 cents/kWh, but they are probably higher in the city. Also rates are heavily subsidized which may end in the future. You are talking about the rates in Hawaiian Islands. In the US and Canada there is usually a fixed charge that comes with the bill (i.e. what you would pay if you used zero electricity). Maybe that is missing in Mexico. That omission would justify somewhat higher rates.
Tankless electric water heaters are often fairly expensive. The price that Paigowdan quoted of $179 is a price that I usually hear for an extremely small unit, suitable for a single washstand, and maybe a single shower that is infrequently used.
There are only very tiny American cities at the altitude of Mexico City, and gas appliances cannot achieve their maximum BTU capacity at mountain altitudes. There is special technology for efficient operation at higher altitudes.
I doubt that turning your water heater on and off is saving you money. You still have to reheat the tank. You may be creating the illusion that it is saving you money because you are taking colder showers. I think you could probably do the same thing by turning the temperature down. In the USA people used to set the water at 60 degrees centigrade, but there is a danger of scalding. It is more common to set it at 51-52 degrees centigrade now. If you can handle it a little lower than that, you will save a lot of money.
Quote: pacomartin
I doubt that turning your water heater on and off is saving you money. You still have to reheat the tank. You may be creating the illusion that it is saving you money because you are taking colder showers.
We have a time for our electric hot water heater and this has lead me to consider the only thing that truly saves you money: not using the hot water. Turning it off for short periods gives the minimal respite of recharging to maintain top temperature, yet the system at some point will still want to do just that. We have it set to turn off all night, using the reservoir of hot water for early morning, which lasts well even if someone showers. However, that all still has to be reheated and the savings are minimal, when you think about it. Savings are there though to have it turned off completely when the house is empty for a few days, and that is easier with the timer .
If 25 minutes of propane charge doesnt get yours fully heated, I would have to guess the sediments have really built up. I mean really, the propane should kick ass compared to an electric model. If you tried to get them out now I would wait until I had let the water cool down [yes the sediments of an unmaintained tank will block up the drain valve and it could be dangerous to clear in the wrong circumstances, easily avoided by not having it hot!]
So:
1) Currently the water heater runs only for less than one hour in the evening when I shower. I do some exercise when I get home from work, almost every day, and I shower right afterwards. If I leave it on all day, it will run for, my best guesstimate, at least a couple of hours. It turns on full power every time the water temps get low. That's the idea for saving some fuel.
2) When dividing the payment by the KwH number on the electric bill, I get the figure per KwH I quoted earlier. According to the electric comany's website it's less than that, again as quoted above. But I don't think the site includes the 16% VAT while the bill does.
3) I don't pay for gas directly, but rather through the condo board. Every month the board sends a bill, and the gas used is itemized in it both by amount and money. There's a bank of meters, one for each apaprtment, in the basement where the gas lines split up from the big tank.
4) The small electric heaters don't seem big enough for a shower. 2.5 gallons is around ten liters. I've no idea how much water I use in a 10 to 15 minute shower (longer if I have to shave my legs), but it must be well over ten liters. The only thing worse than a cold shower is a hot shower that turns cold.
5) No one's mentioned soalr heaters yet. Keep up the good work!
Quote: Nareed5) No one's mentioned soalr heaters yet. Keep up the good work!
I thought the rooftop tanks mentioned (tinaco?) were solar powered, albeit low tech.
Quote: Nareed4) The small electric heaters don't seem big enough for a shower. 2.5 gallons is around ten liters. I've no idea how much water I use in a 10 to 15 minute shower (longer if I have to shave my legs), but it must be well over ten liters. The only thing worse than a cold shower is a hot shower that turns cold.
In the USA the government standard for a shower head in the last 20 years has been less than 2.5 gallons / minute (or 9.5 liters / minute). Older ones could be much higher. Really old ones were set at an extremely indulgent 38 liters per minute. So you are using way over 10 liters for your shower. Paigowdown's advice is really only good for military style living. The initial investment in a per use electrical hot water device must be a lot higher than $179 to continue your habits.
The best advice is unfortunately the simplest. Purchase a shower head that gives you less than 6 liters/minute , and limit your showers to 10 minutes of running water. You can resort to the old military rule: soak yourself, then turn off the water for four minutes while you soap yourself, then wash off. That will do far more than anything you are doing by turning the tank on and off.
It is the unfortunate equivalent of the best way to lose weight, you have to eat less.
Since solar heaters don't work 100% of the time, the return on the initial investment will probably be in many years.
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Quote: NareedWhen dividing the payment by the KwH number on the electric bill, I get the figure per KwH I quoted earlier. According to the electric comany's website it's less than that, again as quoted above. But I don't think the site includes the 16% VAT while the bill does.
A bill in the USA includes:
(1) Cost to generate the electricity: 8.48 cents / kWh
(2) Cost to distribute the electricity to your house: 3.323 cents / kWh
(3) A flat charge regardless of usage: $8.75 / month
USA is one of the few countries in the world without a "Value Added Tax".
In general it sounds like the price of electricity in Mexico City is comparable to the most expensive state in the USA. But regardless of the rate, heating water by electricity is generally the most expensive option. People do it because it is easy and clean. I can't imagine that it is ever cheaper to heat water via electricity than via propane.
I suggest that you clean your system, and take shorter showers.
Quote: progrockerI thought the rooftop tanks mentioned (tinaco?) were solar powered, albeit low tech.
Tinacos are water tanks on top of a house or building. All they do is hold water. Many are painted black, so they get warmed by sunlight, but they're not water heaters.
Quote: pacomartinThe best advice is unfortunately the simplest. Purchase a shower head that gives you less than 6 liters/minute ,
I have one. I had to remove the water-flow regulator/restrictor/thingy because it became clogged every other week. I got tired of cleaning it out witha pin (seriously), and so it's gone.
Quote:and limit your showers to 10 minutes of running water. You can resort to the old military rule: soak yourself, then turn off the water for four minutes while you soap yourself, then wash off. That will do far more than anything you are doing by turning the tank on and off.
Are you familiar with the phrase "quality of life"? I can shower in ten minutes most times. I will not turn off the water and freeze myself in the meantime.
Quote:In general it sounds like the price of electricity in Mexico City is comparable to the most expensive state in the USA.
What else can you expect from a government monopoly with a union?
Quote:I suggest that you clean your system, and take shorter showers.
For all I know the system is clean, just set to a lower temperature. So I'll just try running the heater til it shuts off, however long that takes, and see how the water comes out.
Quote: NareedAre you familiar with the phrase "quality of life"? I can shower in ten minutes most times. I will not turn off the water and freeze myself in the meantime.
I am wrestling with the same problem at my parent's house. The current system is full of old water heaters and ancient washing machines and seems grotesquely inefficient and is costing roughly $1K per year. It's a four full size bathroom house, but is not normally used anywhere near capacity.
The next system may well have to serve my parents until they are age 90. While at the moment my father takes showers at the gym, he may not be able to do that in the future. If my mother gets hurt she like a hot bath. While the tankless systems have numerous sizes to them, it is hard to calculate since the worst case scenario is a full house in the dead of winter (at Christmas). It is hard not to want the biggest system that is made.
Quote: pacomartinThe next system may well have to serve my parents until they are age 90.
When my grandmother needed a new fridge to replace her vintage one, my dad got her one with the understanding he'd keep it after she died. I know it sounds ghoulish, but that's often the best course of action short of moving the folks to a rest home.
Quote: pacomartinYou can resort to the old military rule: soak yourself, then turn off the water for four minutes while you soap yourself, then wash off. That will do far more than anything you are doing by turning the tank on and off.
Yeah, thinking on it, I fail to see that there would be any savings.
Let's look at the situation. You wake up earlya nd turn on the shower. This causes the water heater to turn on. After a few minutes, the water is hot enough for a shower. You go in and get wet, then shut the water off. The water heater will remain ion for the two or three minutes it takes to soap yourself, though. then you turn the water back on, rinse, turn it off and walk out.
See, no savings at all.
Anyway, I'll be calling the plumber in to look at the system. I've let the water heater go to the max temp, when it shuts down by itself, and the water does start out hot. But it doesn't stay that way long enough for the 10-15 minutes required. When we first moved to the apartment, my shower didn't get any hot water at all, though turning on the hot water did cause the heater to turn itself on.
I read that some people are going back to coal. Coal was very common in the 1960's to heat a home. It was extremely dirty and used up a big part of the house.
I don't know what it was like in Mexico, but I am not familiar with coal deposits in Mexico.
Pellet stoves are popular. They usually either burn wood or corn. Some versions are designed to heat water as well as the house. The pellets are treated somehow so that you don't have a lot of dirt.
But it does get cold. A typical January morning can be 5 C, warmign up to 15 C in the afternoon. it might warm up more, to say 20 C, too. That's why people wind up wearing layers they can take off and put back on at the whim of the weather. Some people have space heaters, suually electric. I have one in my room. Poorer people will burn charcoal or wood in anafres (look it up). This is a dangerous practice that invariably results in deaths by CO poisoning.
I don't know what they do in colder climates.
Well, it was actually the doorman who did it. Best 100 pesos I ever spent. he came up to light it up (long story), and found the temp control was loose. So even when you turned it up, it didn't turn the thermostat or whatever up. One drop of crazy glue and ten minutes later it was fixed. Now I have to turn the temp down when I shower :) Good thing, too, seeing as how it was 6 C yesterday evening.
plumber in sydney
Quote: reilly12blah blah blah + link
this really looks like a lame attempt to spam. For some lame plumbing outfit!
really?
tell me I'm wrong.
Now the problem is the shower head, or rather obstructions in the shower head. I think the water we get has a really high mineral content or something, and some kind of gunk builds up over time. This was most noticeable in the low-flow device. It's a small rubber circle with holes in it. I had to clean it out every few weeks with a pin (really). So I just took it out.
The shower was great for months, with a higher pressure, more water and good temperature. Now, though, I think removing the ow-flow thingy led tot he rest of the shower head being obstructed with mineral (likely calcium) gunk. I cleaned it as best I could, I even called a plumber, but the improvement was lackluster to say the least.
So the logical thing to do next is get a new shower head, possibly with some kind of low-flow device that will be easy to clean. But better yet would be to avoid gunk obstructions in the first place.
Any ideas?
I plan to pick the brains of the sales personnel at the fixtures store, but sales people's knowledge and trustworthiness only go so far...
Quote: FaceI had a water softener installed. The results were good, but it was more cost and maintenance than I cared to continue to bother with.
It's good to hear you say that. On the back of my mind I always think that extra appliances means there are more things that can go wrong.
Quote:Now I just use a product called CLR (calcium, lime, rust)
Thanks! I'm trying to locate it or a similar one here. Sounds a lot cheaper than a water softener.
Quote:Barring a water softener, your only choice of prevention is moving to somewhere with a different water supply
I like Vegas :)
I thought "Lime" in spanish was "Lima". I guess there is a different word for the fruit and for the chemical.
Quote: PaigowdanI was making a recommendation; Nareed fully decides. If Nareed's house has electricity, it's just another option, and very inexpensive.
At 1.5KW for a ten-minute shower, the tankless version uses 2.5 cents of electricity, at 10c a KWH. (0.167 * 1.5KW = 0.25KWH). $179 and up to puchase a unit, plus shipping.
1.5kW isn't anywhere enough for a tankless heater. Unless you're feeding it from a roof tank, it will only produce a drizzle of lukewarm water. A shower at a relatively economical rate of 6L/min (US avg. is 15L/min) will only get heated by 1500*0.98/4.17=3.5C, or about 6F.
Typical tankless gas heaters have 18kW to 54kW, the usual rule of thumb is 9kW+9kW per tap, or 30,000+30,000/tap BTU/h. For an electric to match you need 6kW+6kW/tap, so at least a 10kW unit with 18kW typical. That puts a stress on the wiring, you can't just plug an 18 kW appliance into your usual 120V outlet.
Quote: FaceNow I just use a product called CLR (calcium, lime, rust) You can just soak your "dirty" shower head in a cup of it. It breaks up all that material and the head flows like new.
Guess what? I found it at the local Home Depot. It's odd, because they didn't have it on their website. But there it was easy to find amid floor cleaners and detergents...
The directions say nothing about soaking a shower head in it, though. Of course, the directions don't cover everything people do with a product (like the famous Avon body lotion that serves as a mosquito repellent when mixed with water). What concerns me is the nozzles in the shower are a kind of soft palstic. Any idea whether the CLR will damage them? Also, do you just pour the stuff out of the bottle or do you dillute it in some water?
Thanks.
I also bought a new shower head. It works well enough, letting through plenty of hot water. However, its low-flow mechanism is built into the shower head and can't be removed.
Quote: NareedGuess what? I found it at the local Home Depot. It's odd, because they didn't have it on their website. But there it was easy to find amid floor cleaners and detergents...
The directions say nothing about soaking a shower head in it, though. Of course, the directions don't cover everything people do with a product (like the famous Avon body lotion that serves as a mosquito repellent when mixed with water). What concerns me is the nozzles in the shower are a kind of soft palstic. Any idea whether the CLR will damage them? Also, do you just pour the stuff out of the bottle or do you dillute it in some water?
Thanks.
I also bought a new shower head. It works well enough, letting through plenty of hot water. However, its low-flow mechanism is built into the shower head and can't be removed.
The ads for CLR actually show them putting shower heads in the product to remove the deposits. It is probably one of the main uses for the product and it has never effected any plastic products I have used it on.
Quote: kenarmanThe ads for CLR actually show them putting shower heads in the product to remove the deposits. It is probably one of the main uses for the product and it has never effected any plastic products I have used it on.
Thank you. I was going to try it anyway, but it's good to have the information as well.
If this doesn't work, I'll just need to try a different shower head. They're cheap enough that I can replace it every year or so. I may also try the CLR to clean out the coffee maker...
In over 30 years of plumbing I've only seen one shower head that I couldn't remove the water saver. I had to drill that one out. They are almost always in the part just downstream of where they screw onto the arm. A screwdriver will usually drive them out.
Quote: texasplumrYou can also soak the shower head in vinegar and it will do the same thing.
Thanks. let's call it plan B.
Quote:In over 30 years of plumbing I've only seen one shower head that I couldn't remove the water saver. I had to drill that one out. They are almost always in the part just downstream of where they screw onto the arm. A screwdriver will usually drive them out.
In the old one, I unscrewed it by hand. It was pretty obvious and very easy to remove. This new one is less so, and I haven't examined it in detail. Since the packaging indicated a high pressure and a low pressure setting, I assumed there'd be no need to alter it. I was wrong.
