Cooperation Game II

Quote: Mission146

Why the hell wouldn't I share? I've done nothing but share this entire game.

In fact, it's possible that someone with an interest in stealing PM'ed me behind the scenes and I flatly rejected the notion of stealing even to him.

The goal of this game is to get as much of Wizard's money as possible. All I am suggesting is that you guys make sharing as good as stealing for the non big poolers who are not on my team. It's really not a tough thing to do. SOOPOO accuses them of not cooperating, but the side poolers and no poolers all cooperated when we got the All Share done a few rounds ago.

It's not about getting the best percentage of the pot, it's about getting the most money. The big pool can offer to make it equitable for the non big poolers AND STILL end up with more than $50 to split among themselves.

With this in mind here is a new table:

Member	Sharing?	Vote	Team
DJTeddyBear	???		1
Playyourcardsright	Yes		2
UK MARK	Yes	SHARE	3
Mission146	No	SHARE	4
Nathan	Yes		5
Jufo81	Yes		6
MidwestAP	???		7

As Mission has stated it is in ALL of our interests to vote share this round.

Quote: Mission146

I think you're conflating, "Sharing," with, "In the pool." DJTeddyBear is not in the pool, but I believe he is open to Sharing in this round.

No confusion....sharer as in are they in the big pool and not as in which way they will vote.

Quote: Mission146

...---They might not like this, but what I am going to suggest is that the big pool breaks off $20 after the all share to be divided amongst most of the side poolers and Independents equally...

We're allowed to lie in this game, right? [lie]Okay, then I'm totally fine sharing $20 of our winnings with the small poolers...[/lie]

So here's my thoughts, having just got caught up in the thread...

Small pool value to share... 4x$3.33 = $13.32
Small pool value to steal w/ at least 2 small poolers on a 5 man team... 2x$10 = $20

They're going to steal....

Big pool, the way we get most EV in this round is to have all of our teams steal with only 1 share. The idea of $100 is nice, but it will never happen with the small pool having mathematical reason to steal. We should steal.

A further clarification......

Member	Big Pool	Round 11 Vote	Team
DJTeddyBear	No		1
Playyourcardsright	Yes		2
UK MARK	Yes	SHARE	3
Mission146	No	SHARE	4
Nathan	Yes		5
Jufo81	Yes		6
MidwestAP	???		7

The only two captains that are not in the big pool are Mission and DJTeddyBear.

I am very certain that Mission will vote (has voted) SHARE.

DJTeddyBear is the issue. Lets look at his team members. Gordonm888, AxelWolf, SM777 and Joeman. Gordon, Axel and Joe are all big poolers and should all PM DJTeddyBear and tell him we vote Share. I have already done that

However, if DJ ignores his team votes (which are non-binding) and votes STEAL (and everyone else votes SHARE) then the Big Pool will still get $30 through Axel, Joe and I. And that is about the same amount that we would get (maybe more) if every team votes Steal except one team voting SHARE.

So, I think that the clearly best strategy is to all Vote SHARE and try to convince DJTeddyBear to vote SHARE.

Quote: gordonm888

The only two captains that are not in the big pool are Mission and DJTeddyBear.

I am very certain that Mission will vote (has voted) SHARE.

DJTeddyBear is the issue. Lets look at his team members. Gordonm888, AxelWolf, SM777 and Joeman. Gordon, Axel and Joe are all big poolers and should all PM DJTeddyBear and tell him we vote Share. I have already done that

However, if DJ ignores his team votes (which are non-binding) and votes STEAL (and everyone else votes SHARE) then the Big Pool will still get $30 through Axel, Joe and I. And that is about the same amount that we would get (maybe more) if every team votes Steal except one team voting SHARE.

So, I think that the clearly best strategy is to all Vote SHARE and try to convince DJTeddyBear to vote SHARE.

+1

I was thinking along the same lines as you were. Just before you posted this I sent DJTB a PM telling him I obviously wanted to share. I just wanted to know what he was thinking and if I should even bother further. It seems as if SM777 would be the only one pushing him to steal.

Not being in the big pool, taking $50 is obviously the way for DJ and I to go.

I don't know who in their right mind is going to choose"Steal," considering that Wizard said he will double the pot to $100 if everyone shares! Obviously, $100 is more than $50! If you choose to make everyone get LESS money, I don't know what to tell you. Here is an emoticon for what I think of anyone even THINKING of choosing Steal in this Round. -?- And it's not a good emoticon.

Quote: UKMark

...I've dropped the teams into the following table to see what team captains are sharing and those who are not:

Member	Sharing?	Round 12 Team Leader	Team
DJTeddyBear	Yes	Yes	1
Joeman	Yes		1
Gordonm888	Yes		1
Axelwolf	Yes		1
SM777	???		1
Playyourcardsright	Yes	Yes	2
Romes	Yes		2
Prozema	Yes		2
Dalex64	Yes		2
GamerFreak	Yes		2
UK MARK	Yes	Yes	3
Keeneone	Yes		3
JohnnyQ	Yes		3
DJATC	Yes		3
BeachBumBabs	Yes		3
Mission146	No***	Yes	4
OnceDear *	Yes		4
Jmarch79	Yes		4
Ayecarumba	NO NO NO NO NO		4
RS	No		4
Nathan	Yes	Yes	5
Face	Yes***		5
Miplet	Yes		5
Torghatten	Yes		5
GWAE	???		5
Jufo81	Yes	Yes	6
Mikey75	Yes		6
Troopscott	???		6
MaxPen	???		6
MidwestAP	???	Yes	7
PokerGrinder *	Yes		7
OneNickelMiracle	Yes		7
Soopoo	Yes		7

Hehe... Only five “NO’s”? So what you’re saying is, there’s still a chance?

Quote: Romes

We're allowed to lie in this game, right? [lie]Okay, then I'm totally fine sharing $20 of our winnings with the small poolers...[/lie]

So here's my thoughts, having just got caught up in the thread...

Small pool value to share... 4x$3.33 = $13.32
Small pool value to steal w/ at least 2 small poolers on a 5 man team... 2x$10 = $20

They're going to steal....

Big pool, the way we get most EV in this round is to have all of our teams steal with only 1 share. The idea of $100 is nice, but it will never happen with the small pool having mathematical reason to steal. We should steal.

Let me explain why you are wrong.

1.) It would only be $20 if we were the only team to steal, which I highly doubt would be the case. Just like the round everyone managed to F&%^ up before the OnceDear donation round, you're either going to get an All Share or multiple teams to steal.

2.) If there is an All Share, then the small pool gets $13.32, as you mentioned, but if the Big Pool donates $20 to be broken up amongst the seven players who are NOT in the big pool and NOT on my team, then that is an extra $2.86/player. In other words, ($2.86 * 2) + $13.32 = $19.06 goes into the small pool. Guaranteed. That's much better than me trying to steal and counting on nobody else to steal. For what? A long shot at the small pool getting $0.94 more to split?

Therefore, the best mathematical decision for me is to share, especially if I think everyone else will share.

3.) I have already committed to sharing and can provide a screenshot if you want to see it. My vote is made. For all I know, Wizard could pop on any minute and announce that, henceforward, all votes are locked in. If that happened, I'd have literally no choice but to share as I have already done it.

4.) Big Pool, the way you get the most EV out of this round is with an All Share. It's mathematically undeniable. You just have to make Sharing as good, or better, for the non big pool players than stealing would be. This is not a difficult problem to solve.

Quote: SM777

Not being in the big pool, taking $50 is obviously the way for DJ and I to go.

For $10 each? What if the Big Pool makes a binding agreement to cut you in on enough such that you get $10 each even with the All Share?

By the way, is MidwestAP also a big pooler? I thought he is an independent.

Quote: Nathan

I don't know who in their right mind is going to choose"Steal," considering that Wizard said he will double the pot to $100 if everyone shares! Obviously, $100 is more than $50! If you choose to make everyone get LESS money, I don't know what to tell you. Here is an emoticon for what I think of anyone even THINKING of choosing Steal in this Round. -?- And it's not a good emoticon.

Nathan, if you read my post a few before yours you can see my very basic math that explains just why it would be a GOOD IDEA for the small poolers / independents to steal, instead of share. Just because the prize pool doubles doesn't mean they individually would get more money than if they just stole the pot.

Quote: Mission146

...2.) If there is an All Share, then the small pool gets $13.32, as you mentioned, but if the Big Pool donates $20 to be broken up amongst the seven players who are NOT in the big pool and NOT on my team...

Let me just stop you there. Not a chance in hell. They're the ones that didn't want to cooperate. I'd see to it to burn down the round rather than donate to their selfish causes. Even IF you convinced enough big poolers to vote that plan, I would then take my winnings and go independent, as we're allowed to do at the end of the game... and I guarantee you'd get enough "no" big poolers to do that so much that it would really hurt the big pool. What's the -EV on that play???

Not to mention if we get numerous big pool teams to steal, then we get the VAST majority of all the funds... again. #Winning.

You're looking at EV, but you need to look at the CE. In my opinion the $100 pool is not an option.

Quote: Mission146

For $10 each? What if the Big Pool makes a binding agreement to cut you in on enough such that you get $10 each even with the All Share?

By the way, is MidwestAP also a big pooler? I thought he is an independent.

An agreement certainly changes things. No doubt about that.

Quote: Mission146

For $10 each? What if the Big Pool makes a binding agreement to cut you in on enough such that you get $10 each even with the All Share?

By the way, is MidwestAP also a big pooler? I thought he is an independent.

Wait, isn't Mission not even in the big pool? Yet somehow he's trying to set up and broker a deal for us to GIVE MONEY to the small pool??? Anyone else seeing this? lol?

Quote: Romes

Nathan, if you read my post a few before yours you can see my very basic math that explains just why it would be a GOOD IDEA for the small poolers / independents to steal, instead of share. Just because the prize pool doubles doesn't mean they individually would get more money than if they just stole the pot.

Let me just stop you there. Not a chance in hell. They're the ones that didn't want to cooperate. I'd see to it to burn down the round rather than donate to their selfish causes. Even IF you convinced enough big poolers to vote that plan, I would then take my winnings and go independent, as we're allowed to do at the end of the game... and I guarantee you'd get enough "no" big poolers to do that so much that it would really hurt the big pool. What's the -EV on that play???

Not to mention if we get numerous big pool teams to steal, then we get the VAST majority of all the funds... again. #Winning.

You're looking at EV, but you need to look at the CE. In my opinion the $100 pool is not an option.

Imagine how boring this would've been if everyone "shared."

Quote: Romes

Wait, isn't Mission not even in the big pool? Yet somehow he's trying to set up and broker a deal for us to GIVE MONEY to the small pool??? Anyone else seeing this? lol?

Yep. My mind is blown.

One of the strangest decisions made in this game was when Mission game in after Round 4 and then joined the small pool.

This is strange because since then he has acted like a big pool member, even to the point of trying to negotiate with the small pool on behalf of the big pool, as he is doing now. Bizarro-world.

Quote: Romes

Wait, isn't Mission not even in the big pool? Yet somehow he's trying to set up and broker a deal for us to GIVE MONEY to the small pool??? Anyone else seeing this? lol?

You know what popped into my head?

If mission convinces everyone to share but he casts a steal ballot at the last second, is he is the winner of the game with the highest total dollars (or at least close)?

Worse yet, would he get to remind all of us how much smarter he is than the rest of us for all eternity?

That would sure work since he has been a reliable share vote so far.

I'll sit back and wait to be told how foolish this thought is.

Quote: Romes

Wait, isn't Mission not even in the big pool? Yet somehow he's trying to set up and broker a deal for us to GIVE MONEY to the small pool??? Anyone else seeing this? lol?

Really, you just need the captains.

I’m the only one in the small pool with any actual power. Maybe it’ll be sufficient if the big pool just finds a way to take care of the independents. I don’t know. Figure it out.

Some of you have wanted this to be Big Pool v. Everyone Else from the beginning. That’s why some of you are playing this game incompetently and will, again, fail to maximize value not just for yourselves, but for everyone else, while saving Wizard money,

:Slow Clap:

Quote: prozema

You know what popped into my head?

If mission convinces everyone to share but he casts a steal ballot at the last second, is he is the winner of the game with the highest total dollars (or at least close)?

Worse yet, would he get to remind all of us how much smarter he is than the rest of us for all eternity?

That would sure work since he has been a reliable share vote so far.

I'll sit back and wait to be told how foolish this thought is.

I’m willing to send a screenshot of my share vote and put an open post to the Wizard revoking any right to change my current vote.

I’ve already shared, I don’t know what’s so difficult about that. I may or may not have had a teammate ask me to steal who I’ve flatly denied. If such a teammate exists, he can pipe up if he wants to.

Quote: Mission146

Really, you just need the captains.

I’m the only one in the small pool with any actual power. Maybe it’ll be sufficient if the big pool just finds a way to take care of the independents. I don’t know. Figure it out.

Some of you have wanted this to be Big Pool v. Everyone Else from the beginning. That’s why some of you are playing this game incompetently and will, again, fail to maximize value not just for yourselves, but for everyone else, while saving Wizard money,

:Slow Clap:

Yeah, but in the end... some men can't be reasoned with, bartered with, or bought. Some men... just want to watch the world burn.



Burn it down. 1 way to be sure we don't succumb to any LIES is to just STEAL STEAL STEAL. After all, if Mr. Mission is telling the truth, well he's going to SHARE, so we're all protected!

Appealing to the mathematically inclined with "EV" claims Mission... "Very clever, for Americans..." ... "but I see through you. I see to the real you. Inside you're ugly, ugly like me.... " The $100 payout is a sham that isn't a real possibility due to the mathematical STEALING efforts of the small / independents. So play for the majority of the $50 people. STEAL.

yeah I think there are people in this world, with the option of him and his friends getting $1000 each, or him getting $300 and nobody else gets anything, would take that option.

Quote: prozema

I'll sit back and wait to be told how foolish this thought is.

I'll just sit back... To be honest, I can't begin to make a case for share or steal at the moment.

I’m really disappointed with how bad a few of you are at this game.

I joined the small pool ONLY because I am donating my cut to charity and I have every confidence in RS to multiply our money on his bar play with close to zero risk. If I’m going to donate, I don’t want my money going to some parlay with a very low win probability, even if it is +EV.

With RS, I get to multiply my donation with zero work on my part.

The game has always been us v. Wizard, but some of you don’t understand that. I firmly believe you could have:

32 Big Poolers
1 No Pooler

And, if the no pooler were a leader you’d refuse to trust him, OR to give him better value to share than steal.

You guys are going to end up splitting less than $50 when what you could have done is used everything over $50 to give the non big poolers equity and split up a guaranteed $50 for the big pool.

Everyone wins and Wizard pays out more money.

No brainer. But, some of you guys play this game with less than zero brains, so a no brainer is too hard.

Anyway, I have no problem not maximizing the value of the small pool. I never once said I’d play to that end. That said, I’m not going to screw the small pool completely.

My vote is now STEAL.

Good work you guys.

Quote: Mission146

I’m really disappointed with how bad a few of you are at this game.

I didn't read all of this, but the first sentence reminded me of when my 5th grade basketball coach pulled me aside and said, "son, you're not good, but your slow."

Quote: Mission146

I’m really disappointed with how bad a few of you are at this game.

I joined the small pool ONLY because I am donating my cut to charity and I have every confidence in RS to multiply our money on his bar play with close to zero risk. If I’m going to donate, I don’t want my money going to some parlay with a very low win probability, even if it is +EV.

With RS, I get to multiply my donation with zero work on my part.

The game has always been us v. Wizard, but some of you don’t understand that. I firmly believe you could have:

32 Big Poolers
1 No Pooler

And, if the no pooler were a leader you’d refuse to trust him, OR to give him better value to share than steal.

You guys are going to end up splitting less than $50 when what you could have done is used everything over $50 to give the non big poolers equity and split up a guaranteed $50 for the big pool.

Everyone wins and Wizard pays out more money.

No brainer. But, some of you guys play this game with less than zero brains, so a no brainer is too hard.

Anyway, I have no problem not maximizing the value of the small pool. I never once said I’d play to that end. That said, I’m not going to screw the small pool completely.

My vote is now STEAL.

Good work you guys.

So let me get a couple things straight...

1) RS has a 'guaranteed way' to always turn $10 in to something like $50, with no risk?

2) The big pool literally has not even DISCUSSED what we're going to do with the money. Why on earth do you think we're going to do some long shot parlay? That's literally only your idea, in your head, and you're basing your decisions/actions off your own falsified information.

3) Why couldn't you have joined the big team and still donated any winnings to charity? Again, since we're NOT decided AT ALL on what we're going to be doing it on, you could simple voice your opinion for something lower variance/etc if that's what was of concern to you.

Personally I believe we caught the trap. It doesn't add up... and when it doesn't add up, as Judge Judy says, that means somebody is lying.

#STEAL

1. I don’t know if it’s 5x, but he said it’s next to no risk. I’m just going off of what he said.

2. Isn’t that what the big pool did last time? As I recall, there was some big parlay that would have won, but nobody could get the bet down that week. There was a bet made the following week and it lost.

3. I don’t feel like arguing over where a few bucks is going to go. RS made a proposal, I liked his proposal, I joined the small pool.

Me sharing the first time I was a captain, “Didn’t add up,” and that’s what I did. Me sharing when Axel was a captain, “Didn’t add up,” and I shared then, too.

Anyway, the big pool has no central leadership, no central objective and is suspicious of people who never did anything but try to maximize the value of what comes from Wizard for everyone.

Buy into your own narrative all you want.

There was no trap. The big pool gave me no other choice but to steal. You’re your own self-fulfilling prophecy.

Good job.

Quote: Romes

So let me get a couple things straight...

1) RS has a 'guaranteed way' to always turn $10 in to something like $50, with no risk?

LIES!!!

Mission, agreeing to pool and with whom is a completely different decision from "what to do with your money when the game is over." Even though I am in the big pool, once the winnings have been shared within the big pool, and my individual total has been determined, there is nothing to prevent me from being part of RS's bet, or someone else's parlay bet, or just taking my meager winnings and not betting. In other words, you did not need to join the small pool to be part of RS's bet after the game is over.

Having said all that I have been advocating everyone voting SHARE in this round. The big pool should look at the members on each team and determine how many big pool members will collect a share of $50 under the most likely steal scenarios. I think you will find that the scenario with the least return to the big pool is the one in which one of our teams (loaded with big pool players) votes SHARE while the rest of us all vote STEAL.

Just figure out which of the four teams with a Big Pool captain has the least Big Poolers and have that team vote to Share while the rest Steal.

It’s not difficult. None of this is difficult. I’ll be surprised if some of the big poolers don’t find a way to screw up that simple concept, too.

Joining the big pool also would have been boring. The game is 2:1 Big Poolers. Anyway, I never wanted my winnings, but RS’ play appealed to me. If I hadn’t joined the small pool, I’d have went independent.

Do you want me to switch allegiances and join the big pool? Make MidwestAP and DJTeddyBear the same offer and get back to me if they agree and I’ll do the same. More than anything, I want to see an All Share, so if that’s what it takes...

Quote: Romes

Nathan, if you read my post a few before yours you can see my very basic math that explains just why it would be a GOOD IDEA for the small poolers / independents to steal, instead of share. Just because the prize pool doubles doesn't mean they individually would get more money than if they just stole the pot.

Nathan,

Don’t listen to Romes. He and the other big poolers could make it worth the while of Small poolers and independents to share and are choosing not to.

He could even offer (with other big poolers) the opportunity to allow myself and the two independents to join the big pool, then all seven captains would be big poolers. But, I doubt if he would be agreeable to that.

The funny thing is you have this big pool get formed and then it proceeds to work against its own interests in multiple rounds.

Quote: UKMark

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I think you - or someone - need to read the PM agaIn

Hey Mr DJ put the record straight.....there's a song that goes something like that......oh it was "put a record on" by some little known female artist.....lol

Could you please correct me and tell me if you are a sharer or non sharer as this is what I was pointed to....

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/casual-corner/30628-cooperation-game-ii/165/#post664898

The post that you linked to was a post, not a private message. And it states my intentions to not join a pool. It has nothing to do with sharing.

On a somewhat related note, although I already submitted my vote for this round, sigh, I’m gonna change it.


Note: here’s where I quoted the above post from:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/casual-corner/30628-cooperation-game-ii/190/#post666129

Quote: DJTeddyBear

The post that you linked to was a post, not a private message. And it states my intentions to not join a pool. It has nothing to do with sharing.

On a somewhat related note, although I already submitted my vote for this round, sigh, I’m gonna change it.

You didn’t even want anything to share, at first?

Good gravy! They really are giving us no choice!

BIG POOL:

Look how good you guys are at this game!

You had a small pool captain and an independent captain sharing and now you’ve convinced us BOTH to steal.

You’d have only had to get MidwestAP on board and the ALL SHARE would have been in.

If we ever have a game like this again, I suggest we get rid of any pooling. It seems like the hive mind makes people play worse, for some reason.

I even sent Gordon, OnceDear and TroopScott that PM saying I’d share no matter what and I hoped Wizard would make us all leaders thinking we were fighting. I’ve been working for everyone to get the most out of Wizard this whole time, but that’s too difficult a concept for some of you.

Time to make a Mastermind, sneaky, diabolical, AP move. How about we get Wizard to give each person playing $100 if we all agree to Share rather than have just $100 big pot? :) The plot of this game is to get as much money as we can from Wizard .We can get Wizard to give like $3200 to the big pot. Would you rather have a figurative $1,000 or a million dollars? ;)

Quote: Mission146

BIG POOL:

Look how good you guys are at this game!

You had a small pool captain and an independent captain sharing and now you’ve convinced us BOTH to steal.

You’d have only had to get MidwestAP on board and the ALL SHARE would have been in.

If we ever have a game like this again, I suggest we get rid of any pooling. It seems like the hive mind makes people play worse, for some reason.

I even sent Gordon, OnceDear and TroopScott that PM saying I’d share no matter what and I hoped Wizard would make us all leaders thinking we were fighting. I’ve been working for everyone to get the most out of Wizard this whole time, but that’s too difficult a concept for some of you.

Midwest was never going to share. Never. Not unless we paid the equity to him where he came out ahead.

I love how Romes is basically the only person here who's not willing to cooperate with other players. He'd rather make less money if it means the small pool gets less as well.

Small pool is already up $30 due to an anonymous donation I'll be making to our pool. :)

As of round 8, we had $21.05 in the small pool. That has gained a 119.5% profit due to my super secret play, so there's an additional $25.15 to be added to our pool.

I owe the small pool $55.15 right now ($30 of which is anonymous :) ). We have $27.49 (from Wizard) plus the $55.15 I owe; that's $82.64 in total or $20.66 per person (minus the non-negotiable $20 cash-out fee, of course).

Quote: Nathan

Time to make a Mastermind, sneaky, diabolical, AP move. How about we get Wizard to give each person playing $100 if we all agree to Share rather than have just $100 big pot? :) The plot of this game is to get as much money as we can from Wizard .We can get Wizard to give like $3200 to the big pot. Would you rather have a figurative $1,000 or a million dollars? ;)

What have you been drinking?
It would be incredibly dumb if I were to suggest that the best strategy would be to ask Nathan to promise to bribe each of the team captains with $1,000 of her own money for them to vote 'share'.

What is this nonsense figurative $1,000 or million dollars.

What is your cunning plan?



This is a real money game. Mike has extremely generously put up about $300 of his own cold hard cash and I've chipped in an additional $110. That's real money. If you want to go to Mr Mike Shackleford of Las Vegas and try to persuade him to top it up to $1,000 or $1,000,000 then good luck with that. You might sound as bright as Baldrick

Quote: OnceDear

What have you been drinking?
It would be incredibly dumb if I were to suggest that the best strategy would be to ask Nathan to promise to bribe each of the team captains with $1,000 of her own money for them to vote 'share'.

What is this nonsense figurative $1,000 or million dollars.

What is your cunning plan?

This is a real money game. Mike has extremely generously put up about $300 of his own cold hard cash and I've chipped in an additional $110. That's real money. If you want to go to Mr Mike Shackleford of Las Vegas and try to persuade him to top it up to $1,000 or $1,000,000 then good luck with that. You might sound as bright as Baldrick

I was implying that we can get Wizard to give each person playing $100 for a bigger pot rather than just $100.

Quote: Nathan

Quote: OnceDear

What have you been drinking?
It would be incredibly dumb if I were to suggest that the best strategy would be to ask Nathan to promise to bribe each of the team captains with $1,000 of her own money for them to vote 'share'.

What is this nonsense figurative $1,000 or million dollars.

What is your cunning plan?

This is a real money game. Mike has extremely generously put up about $300 of his own cold hard cash and I've chipped in an additional $110. That's real money. If you want to go to Mr Mike Shackleford of Las Vegas and try to persuade him to top it up to $1,000 or $1,000,000 then good luck with that. You might sound as bright as Baldrick

I was implying that we can get Wizard to give each person playing $100 for a bigger pot rather than just $100.

Why stop there? Ask him to fund universal basic income for all Americans.

Quote: Nathan

I was implying that we can get Wizard to give each person playing $100 for a bigger pot rather than just $100.

So, we have 30 players and you suggest that we can get Mr Mike Shackleford of Las Vegas to increase the amount that he's happy to give away from $100 to $3,000.
Yeah. That will work. You go and ask him. If he says 'yes' then I'll chip in an extra 25 cents for each of the 30 players.

Are you familiar with the character Baldrick? He's usually the target of much ridicule for his incredibly inane 'cunning plans'.

I'm going to have to ban myself now for what I'm thinking. See you in 24 hours.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Midwest was never going to share. Never. Not unless we paid the equity to him where he came out ahead.

Okay, so you should have done that. Make him an offer from out of the Big Pool such that he comes out $0.01 ahead of the best possible result he could get from stealing. Hell, I'd even offer to divert my winnings from the entire game to MidwestAP if that would have got the job done.

Quote: Nathan

Time to make a Mastermind, sneaky, diabolical, AP move. How about we get Wizard to give each person playing $100 if we all agree to Share rather than have just $100 big pot? :) The plot of this game is to get as much money as we can from Wizard .We can get Wizard to give like $3200 to the big pot. Would you rather have a figurative $1,000 or a million dollars? ;)

This is a troll post. We need a moderator to take the appropriate action.

Quote: SOOPOO

This is a troll post. We need a moderator to take the appropriate action.

I'm not Trolling. I was trying to see if we could maximize the profits from the game.

Quote: Nathan

I'm not Trolling. I was trying to see if we could maximize the profits from the game.

If you want, you can whisper your next idea in my ear and I'll provide guidance on whether or not it's a good idea.

Quote: Nathan

I'm not Trolling. I was trying to see if we could maximize the profits from the game.

Even you couldn’t have thought this was a good idea????

Seriously think about your great ideas before posting. Remember hug the edit button, the edit button is your friend.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

The post that you linked to was a post, not a private message. And it states my intentions to not join a pool. It has nothing to do with sharing.

On a somewhat related note, although I already submitted my vote for this round, sigh, I’m gonna change it.


Note: here’s where I quoted the above post from:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/casual-corner/30628-cooperation-game-ii/190/#post666129

Do you mind at least letting your team know? No response to my PM.

Quote: OnceDear

I'm going to have to ban myself now for what I'm thinking. See you in 24 hours.

I would like to serve ODs suspension for him. I'm gonna make more popcorn and a cocktail. It's probably best if I'm on time out anyway.

If any of you fine gentlemen who posted about not being captian enough want to jump in, this is a golden opportunity to take a leadership role. I would do it, but I did my thing last round getting 18 votes submitted in order.... So I'm free riding this round.

Anyway, it's as easy as taking $10 from the $100 in prize money and diverting it away from the big pool to each non-big pool captian. You'll have to send a bunch of PMs and you'll take heat from some bigpoolers.

Ain't leadership fun?

Quote: Nathan

I was implying that we can get Wizard to give each person playing $100 for a bigger pot rather than just $100.

I'm listening. What is in it for me?

Just How Badly Did The Big Pool Screw Up?

Let's see how badly the big pool screwed this last round up, just for kicks!

The big pool has currently amassed a total of $275.95, which comes out to $11.997826087 per person.

Second Best Case

Other than an ALL SHARE, the best the Big Pool could have done would be a Team 3 ONLY Steal, because Team 3 is all Big Poolers. If that would have happened, the final total for the game would be:

$325.95 for the big pool, which is $14.171739 per player.

???? Case Scenario

What's actually going to happen now is not even the third best case scenario for the Big Pool because they could have at least tried to get DJTeddyBear, MidwestAP or myself to share. It looks like DJTeddyBear and I were already sharing, until certain players on the big pool decided to shoot off their mouths.

Assuming that DJTeddyBear, MidwestAP and myself all steal (and we will), the best thing the big pool can do is have Team 6 Share and the rest steal because only three Big Poolers get knocked out that way.

As a result, $50 will be split amongst 29 players of whom 20 will be big poolers.

(20/29) * 50 = 34.4827586207

That means that the big pool will add a comparably paltry $34.48 to their pool for a total of:

275.95 + 34.48 = 310.43 which is $13.4969565217 per player.

The Wizard gets to save $50 and the Big Pool loses at least $15.52 compared to what it could have done.

Better Case Scenario

The Big Pool had a few different options:

The $3.03 for everyone ALL SHARE would have brought the Big Pool $69.69 in total, so:

1.) The big pool could have used $19.69 to improve the equity of small poolers and independents to get them to share.

2.) The big pool could have used $19.69 to bribe MidwestAP and DJTeddyBear (the only people they really needed) to Share since I was going to Share anyway. Of course, they've given me no choice but to steal. Turns out DJTeddyBear was going to share anyway, but they had no way of knowing that.

3.) The big pool could have offered to let DJTeddyBear and MidwestAP to join the big pool. The big pool is currently worth about $12.00 per person, DJTeddyBear has amassed $7.87 in this game and MidwestAP has $7.15.

That brings the big pool up to $290.97 among 25 people for $11.6388 each.

Except, now there would be 25 Big Poolers who each get $3.03 for a total of $75.75 added to the big pool.

The final Big Pool total would be $366.72 which would be divided amongst 25 people for $14.6688 each.

As you can see:

A.) The only way that DJTeddyBear or MidwestAP could do better than that would be to be the lone stealing team.

B.) Every big pool player does about $1.17 better than what is now going to happen.

C.) The big pool banks $56.29 more than they are going to now.

D.) The Wizard pays out an extra $50

IN FACT

In fact, if everyone were to NOW join the big pool, the big pool would have all $350 in the game.

$350/33 = $10.6060606/player.

The ALL SHARE would be a mortal lock, so the overall pool would go from $350 to $450.

$450/33 = $13.6363636/player

Which is more than the $13.4969565217/player they will now get in the big pool.

AND, the Wizard pays an extra $50.

Well played, Big Pool, well played.