Cooperation Game II
Poll
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| | 3 votes (9.09%) | ||
| | 4 votes (12.12%) | ||
| | 1 vote (3.03%) | ||
| | 3 votes (9.09%) | ||
| | 2 votes (6.06%) | ||
| | 1 vote (3.03%) | ||
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| No votes (0%) | |||
| | 4 votes (12.12%) |
33 members have voted
Quote: gordonm888Congratulations to everyone for cooperating, despite all the arguments and finger-pointing.
1. I have lost the table listing who the big and little poolers are and the non-poolers. Could someone post the page number where that table can be found, or perhaps re-post the table if there are any updates?
2. How much money ( both Wiz and OD) is in the big pool? in the little pool? Fortunately, these payouts do not qualify for W-2Gs.
The table.that indicates pool is in my post above, this same page, carried forward from page..78, I think it was. I requested OD publish an updated one.
I'm glad you think that it was OD's offer that clinched the share votes. Before I had approached the team captains in private most of them seem to have allready made up their minds they were going to steal unless I could get commitments from EVERYONE to share.Quote: WizardRound 7 Results
Team Leader Followers Vote 1 OnceDear Joeman, miplet, SM777, gordonm888 share 2 Ayecarumba MidwestAP, PokerGrinder, Dalex64, RS share 3 djatc Romes, GWAE, Mission146, JohnnyQ share 4 onenickelmiracle Mikey75, AxelWolf, gamerfreak, Jmarch79 share 5 prozema Keeneone, Jufo81, troopscott, PlayYourCardsRight share 6 DJTeddyBear beachbumbabs, SOOPOO, Torghatten share 7 MaxPen Face, Nathan, UKMark share
Okay, guys, you win. I'm not going to offer any congratulations because OD bought off everyone with the enormous incentive to share. *Hmph!*
Hopefully threatening Djatc's precious little Miata scared the share into him (-;.
What the hell Mike? I thought you were going to let me pick team captains this round with my rebate offer? IIRC we were at the end of negotiations? It seemed to me as if it was going to happen. Perhaps you thought better of it after seeing what happened this round. I know I hadn't given my final commitment, I just assumed you were going to ask me for my list after this round was over. I didn't want to send you my list before we both agreed.
In a few PM's I did suggest that what we should really be doing is figuring out is how best to get Mike to add more money to the game. I just didn't want a situation where the money kept going to all the stealers. I didn't think the pot was going to go much higher than the last round.Quote: SM777Why do the ploppies think it is best to share now, with many more rounds to go, and Wizard continuing to increase the pool for everyone to share?
And these people call themselves APs?
I'm glad to see that it chaps your hide that everyone shared this round.
Quote: beachbumbabsThe table.that indicates pool is in my post above, this same page, carried forward from page..78, I think it was. I requested OD publish an updated one.
That table thinks I'm in the main pool, I'm in a side pool with RS and MaxPen.
You noticed that too, huh? :)Quote: beachbumbabsI'm not excited to offer my opinion, because it volunteers a different team, but Joeman's team2 appears to have all big poolers
I've solicited input from my team, but I personally wouldn't be opposed to taking the bullet this round.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/casual-corner/31063-cooperation-game-ii-rules-and-scores-only/
Quote: prozemaI've been using the tables in this thread.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/casual-corner/31063-cooperation-game-ii-rules-and-scores-only/
Thanks. That's better.
Quote: WizardOkay, let's lower the temperature after that last round. Simple $20 pool. No bonus for all sharing.
Round 8 Teams
Team Leader Followers Vote 1 Romes SOOPOO, PlayYourCardsRight, gamerfreak, SM777 2 Joeman JohnnyQ, OnceDear, Torghatten, Jmarch79 3 Dalex64 gordonm888, beachbumbabs, MidwestAP, DJTeddyBear 4 RS troopscott, Mikey75, UKMark, AxelWolf 5 Nathan djatc, onenickelmiracle, prozema, Ayecarumba 6 PokerGrinder Keeneone, MaxPen, Face 7 miplet Jufo81, GWAE, Mission146
Vote deadline: 9 AM Vegas time on Wednesday (7/25/18). A quick easy round.
Team #1, what say you? PM me your votes. I'll always do it democratically first, and if no votes then eh I'll pick something =P.
Quote: AxelWolfWhat the hell Mike? I thought you were going to let me pick team captains this round with my rebate offer? IIRC we were at the end of negotiations? It seemed to me as if it was going to happen. Perhaps you thought better of it after seeing what happened this round. I know I hadn't given my final commitment, I just assumed you were going to ask me for my list after this round was over. I didn't want to send you my list before we both agreed.
You know what they say about the word assume -- it makes an ass out of u and me.
If you want to accept my last offer, PM me and you'll be good to go for round 9, contingent on the new list of team leaders. So you'll have to pick seven names from these:
AxelWolf
beachbumbabs
DJTeddyBear
gamerfreak
gordonm888
Jmarch79
JohnnyQ
MidwestAP
Mikey75
Mission146
OnceDear
PlayYourCardsRight
SM777
SOOPOO
Torghatten
troopscott
UKMark
Quote: WizardOkay, let's lower the temperature after that last round. Simple $20 pool. No bonus for all sharing.
Round 8 Teams
Team Leader Followers Vote 1 Romes SOOPOO, PlayYourCardsRight, gamerfreak, SM777 2 Joeman JohnnyQ, OnceDear, Torghatten, Jmarch79 3 Dalex64 gordonm888, beachbumbabs, MidwestAP, DJTeddyBear 4 RS troopscott, Mikey75, UKMark, AxelWolf 5 Nathan djatc, onenickelmiracle, prozema, Ayecarumba 6 PokerGrinder Keeneone, MaxPen, Face 7 miplet Jufo81, GWAE, Mission146
Vote deadline: 9 AM Vegas time on Wednesday (7/25/18). A quick easy round.
By my very rough memory calculations miplet needs to share. He has the most non pool/side pool on his team while everyone else should steal to dilute the earnings of the non and side poolers and maximize the main pool
Quote: troopscottQuote: WizardOkay, let's lower the temperature after that last round. Simple $20 pool. No bonus for all sharing.
Round 8 Teams
Team Leader Followers Vote 1 Romes SOOPOO, PlayYourCardsRight, gamerfreak, SM777 2 Joeman JohnnyQ, OnceDear, Torghatten, Jmarch79 3 Dalex64 gordonm888, beachbumbabs, MidwestAP, DJTeddyBear 4 RS troopscott, Mikey75, UKMark, AxelWolf 5 Nathan djatc, onenickelmiracle, prozema, Ayecarumba 6 PokerGrinder Keeneone, MaxPen, Face 7 miplet Jufo81, GWAE, Mission146
Vote deadline: 9 AM Vegas time on Wednesday (7/25/18). A quick easy round.
By my very rough memory calculations miplet needs to share. He has the most non pool/side pool on his team while everyone else should steal to dilute the earnings of the non and side poolers and maximize the main pool
Well, you and I have directly opposite ideas about the point of this game, then. They are not the enemy.
I thought there was a GOOD chance you would ask or follow up.
I now assume you acted fast without a follow up on purpose knowing it would lower the pool I could choose from next time if we agreed to do it.
How about this, toss out the list and just let me pick whomever I wish(aside from the list of people I promised not to pick allready) and I will give you 50% extra if there's a steal vote. If you add $50 + to the pool and there is a steal vote I will give you $75+
Surely, Pokergrinder and miplet should share, to stymie the two small poolers, Mission and MaxpenQuote: troopscottQuote: WizardOkay, let's lower the temperature after that last round. Simple $20 pool. No bonus for all sharing.
Round 8 Teams
Team Leader Followers Vote 1 Romes SOOPOO, PlayYourCardsRight, gamerfreak, SM777 2 Joeman JohnnyQ, OnceDear, Torghatten, Jmarch79 3 Dalex64 gordonm888, beachbumbabs, MidwestAP, DJTeddyBear 4 RS troopscott, Mikey75, UKMark, AxelWolf 5 Nathan djatc, onenickelmiracle, prozema, Ayecarumba 6 PokerGrinder Keeneone, MaxPen, Face 7 miplet Jufo81, GWAE, Mission146
Vote deadline: 9 AM Vegas time on Wednesday (7/25/18). A quick easy round.
By my very rough memory calculations miplet needs to share. He has the most non pool/side pool on his team while everyone else should steal to dilute the earnings of the non and side poolers and maximize the main pool
Quote: OnceDearSurely, Pokergrinder and miplet should share, to stymie the two small poolers, Mission and MaxpenQuote: troopscottQuote: WizardOkay, let's lower the temperature after that last round. Simple $20 pool. No bonus for all sharing.
Round 8 Teams
Team Leader Followers Vote 1 Romes SOOPOO, PlayYourCardsRight, gamerfreak, SM777 2 Joeman JohnnyQ, OnceDear, Torghatten, Jmarch79 3 Dalex64 gordonm888, beachbumbabs, MidwestAP, DJTeddyBear 4 RS troopscott, Mikey75, UKMark, AxelWolf 5 Nathan djatc, onenickelmiracle, prozema, Ayecarumba 6 PokerGrinder Keeneone, MaxPen, Face 7 miplet Jufo81, GWAE, Mission146
Vote deadline: 9 AM Vegas time on Wednesday (7/25/18). A quick easy round.
By my very rough memory calculations miplet needs to share. He has the most non pool/side pool on his team while everyone else should steal to dilute the earnings of the non and side poolers and maximize the main pool
Still a little cross from mission and max taking that Thai massage out of your pocket?
Quote: beachbumbabsThis is exactly why I pushed the teams the way I did in the first OD supplemented round, and am suggesting the team2 do the share this round. Each time, it cuts out the least number of non-poolers.
It's a mistake to create an internal rivalry between main pool and the rest. It's best to look out for their interests as well to maximize return.
Actually it has more impact on main pool because the pie is sliced so many ways
Quote: troopscottActually it has more impact on main pool because the pie is sliced so many ways
I understand that, but we need their cooperation to make any significant amount of money. If you want to consider them overhead, fine. They're a necessary business expense.
A little bit of consideration each round should help them cooperate with us as well. Do you not see some patterns in how Wizard is forming the teams? I do. He sees intramural warfare as our biggest vulnerability. I would have to agree.
Quote: beachbumbabsI understand that, but we need their cooperation to make any significant amount of money. If you want to consider them overhead, fine. They're a necessary business expense.
A little bit of consideration each round should help them cooperate with us as well. Do you not see some patterns in how Wizard is forming the teams? I do. He sees intramural warfare as our biggest vulnerability. I would have to agree.
Unless the majority of my team wants to share, I plan on stealing.
I kind of disagree. The whole idea of the cooperation game is to cooperate. The individual and "small pool" players already proved they don't want to cooperate with the rest of us because they want their $2.50, or they want their own super amazing awesome no girls only pool party. I don't think we need to give them anything. That's why I suggested pages and pages back to have 1 or 2 share and all steal, so we, the cooperating 'big pool' players always get the mass majority of the pot.Quote: beachbumbabsI understand that, but we need their cooperation to make any significant amount of money. If you want to consider them overhead, fine. They're a necessary business expense...
All the separate from 'small' to 'big' pool does is drive competition for one to steal from the other. They chose that early on when we tried to all cooperate for one big pool. Rounds where it benefits ALL of us (such as $100 in the pot for all sharing) then we can 'cooperate' with them in the game, but our focus should always be on the 'big pool' team that all decided to cooperate with each other 100 pages ago.
Nah. That's a separate bankroll.Quote: prozemaStill a little cross from mission and max taking that Thai massage out of your pocket?
Quote: prozemaTeam 1 and 6 have very reliable captians in my opinion. I propose team 1 and / or 6 share and everyone else steals. I realize that might not be optimal for the big pool, but I really don't care.
I have found Joeman to be very reliable throughout. The only way EVERYBODY gets a share is if his team shares and everyone else steals.
Your way, we're talking about pennies different, and we're cutting out at least 2 people we may need later on, when there's an option to not screw them. Why create enemies ahead of knowing the rules or rewards? We need to be allies.
Quote: beachbumbabsI have found Joeman to be very reliable throughout. The only way EVERYBODY gets a share is if his team shares and everyone else steals.
Your way, we're talking about pennies different, and we're cutting out at least 2 people we may need later on, when there's an option to not screw them. Why create enemies ahead of knowing the rules or rewards? We need to be allies.
I don't want to cut anyone out of anything but I do like the idea of 2 shares as a safety net.
Quote: gordonm888Congratulations to everyone for cooperating, despite all the arguments and finger-pointing.
edit: deleted, overcome by earlier posts
Obviously, the financial info on the table BBB posted only includes winnings up to Round 4. Anyone care to update it, including both Wiz and OD money?
I'm doing the big update. Will post a liink asap.
So early on when we all said we'd cooperate and pool our winnings and a select few said they didn't want to participate with us, that's not them creating enemies instead of allies?Quote: beachbumbabs...Your way, we're talking about pennies different, and we're cutting out at least 2 people we may need later on, when there's an option to not screw them. Why create enemies ahead of knowing the rules or rewards? We need to be allies.
Quote: RomesSo early on when we all said we'd cooperate and pool our winnings and a select few said they didn't want to participate with us, that's not them creating enemies instead of allies?
That's us knowing that based on past experiences....we actually want to be able to cash out some money.
Quote: beachbumbabsI have found Joeman to be very reliable throughout. The only way EVERYBODY gets a share is if his team shares and everyone else steals.
Your way, we're talking about pennies different, and we're cutting out at least 2 people we may need later on, when there's an option to not screw them. Why create enemies ahead of knowing the rules or rewards? We need to be allies.
why screw or short 33 for 3?
Quote: RSThat's us knowing that based on past experiences....we actually want to be able to cash out some money.
past performances are not indicative of future results
I do believe that past performances on a game like this are very important to consider.Quote: troopscottpast performances are not indicative of future results
I'm not sure how anyone could come up with a VALID argument opposing my statement.
Quote: AxelWolfHow about this, toss out the list and just let me pick whomever I wish(aside from the list of people I promised not to pick allready) and I will give you 50% extra if there's a steal vote. If you add $50 + to the pool and there is a steal vote I will give you $75+
At this point, for a quick round, it's too late to completely change the list. Let's agree to let you host round 9 to put the topic to rest.
Quote: troopscottwhy screw or short 33 for 3?
I feel like we owe them a favor. They could have screwed us good last round and didn't.
Quote: WizardSo you'll have to pick seven names from these:
...Mission146
I thought you got to pick a few people Axel is not allowed to pick? You're giving him an insta-share?
Quote: troopscott
By my very rough memory calculations miplet needs to share. He has the most non pool/side pool on his team while everyone else should steal to dilute the earnings of the non and side poolers and maximize the main pool
Yeah, keep playing it that way. Sharing all the way through is the only thing that I was not potentially lying about, but if I get the opportunity to screw you over when we're both captains, there's a good chance I do it.
As long as Troopscott is not a captain at the same time I am, I will share instantly. I will always vote to share when not a captain, unless we have a round like this one where it doesn't make sense and we're all colluding.
Quote: beachbumbabs
Well, you and I have directly opposite ideas about the point of this game, then. They are not the enemy.
He's either taking cues from the Wizard, or he just fundamentally doesn't understand the nature of the game.
Quote: OnceDearSurely, Pokergrinder and miplet should share, to stymie the two small poolers, Mission and Maxpen
Yeah, do that. No chance you'll need any of the three of us in a future round, right?
The, "Main Pool," should be called a "Cartel," instead.
Quote: troopscottpast performances are not indicative of future results
Quote: mipletUnless the majority of my team wants to share, I plan on stealing.
As long as one of the big pool teams will commit to sharing, so that all six other teams can steal, I am also in favor of stealing. I retract my vote to share that I PM'ed you earlier.
Thanks!
Also, now it's impossible for a majority of our team to want to share, because there are only four of us.
Quote: RomesI kind of disagree...
This is what everybody needs to understand:
If every single player in this game were in the main pool, then every round, by default, would be maximum cooperation. 100% of the time. Therefore, there would be no reason to ever continue the game or ever increase prizes.
Quote: prozemaI don't want to cut anyone out of anything but I do like the idea of 2 shares as a safety net.
If you can't trust one captain who is in the big pool, then the big pool has some serious problems!
Call it what you will. Your small pool are the adversaries to beat down AFTER we have emptied Wizard's wallet to the max.Since we cannot trust you in some future unknown scenario, we have no need to sidle up to you now.Quote: Mission146Yeah, do that. No chance you'll need any of the three of us in a future round, right?
The, "Main Pool," should be called a "Cartel," instead.
Quote: OnceDearCall it what you will. Your small pool are the adversaries to beat down AFTER we have emptied Wizard's wallet to the max.Since we cannot trust you in some future unknown scenario, we have no need to sidle up to you now.
Rules change from time to time. Who knows, maybe Wizard will make some really big changes? He could make 3 teams, where MaxPen, Mission, and I are the captains -- if we vote share, everyone gets a piece of the puzzle, otherwise just the 3 of us get the loot and no one else does. I'm not saying that will happen, but you guys may want to re-think your "allies and enemies" stance....especially since Romes is probably gonna f*** around and lose your main pool money anyway. I've already guaranteed a profit for my pool or at the very least, break even if the play ends.
You should make me a captain next round, I will share instantly. But, if you make me a captain, DO NOT make TroopScott a captain, if he and I are both captains, I will steal. My team will have no say in the matter whatsoever.
Quote: OnceDearCall it what you will. Your small pool are the adversaries to beat down AFTER we have emptied Wizard's wallet to the max.Since we cannot trust you in some future unknown scenario, we have no need to sidle up to you now.
Screw me now and I'll screw you harder at some point in the future. I'm not above revenge. If you want to play nice, we'll play nice. If you want to play hardball, we can play hardball. It's up to you guys.
The only thing I know is that the prize is $20 no matter what this round. My money is going to charity, anyway. You think in some future round if the amounts are $50/$250 that I'm not going to remember getting screwed now and get you back for no reason other than pure revenge? Try me.
Quote: Mission146If you can't trust one captain who is in the big pool, then the big pool has some serious problems!
We have lots of problems... You should see my browser history. :-)
Anyway, I propose king soopoo call the shot for the big pool. That worked great for early rounds.
Side notes:
1. Are you ok mission? You seem worked up.
2. Has anyone heard from Nathan? She's my captian and she read my PM, so I assume she knows. Does team 5 need to identify a backup voter?
I was talking about the the next round.Quote: WizardAt this point, for a quick round, it's too late to completely change the list. Let's agree to let you host round 9 to put the topic to rest.
It's very simple.
I can pick who I want as team captains with no restrictions(other than the list of people I said I wouldn't pick)
I will give you 50% more than your offer if just one team captain steals.
I will not offer any bribes or anything.
I will not even consider who's pooling or not. TBH I don't even know who Is pooling or not(I know RS, Max and Mission have a gay lover's side pool) and I have not even considered any of the pooling in my decision making)
I will basically putting my faith in people who I think will pool with a simple request that they do so under any circumstances because I trust they won't FK me.
The 'small pool' will optimize each round for themselves. They do not share the 'mission' of removing max amount from Mike. Their mission is max value added to their pool. The rest of us are just an irritation to their plan. If we can get the max to the 'big pool, we shouldn't care if it benefits the small pool. But that will be seldom.Quote: PokerGrinderI disagree with your thinking here, we need them to cooperate to win the most money.
Quote: OnceDearNo problem. IMHO, Both you and ONM read my game plan fairly well, even if you were both somewhat on the offensive. You and ONM and SooPoo nearly tempted me to vote steal out of irritation. That was why I locked in my vote before you pushed me any further.
I was paid $10 to irritate you by......... Can't reveal because it was done via pm.....
Well I hope you think it was worth it. He/she is not on my list. You are.Quote: SOOPOOI was paid $10 to irritate you by......... Can't reveal because it was done via pm.....
Quote: OnceDearThe 'small pool' will optimize each round for themselves. They do not share the 'mission' of removing max amount from Mike. Their mission is max value added to their pool. The rest of us are just an irritation to their plan. If we can get the max to the 'big pool, we shouldn't care if it benefits the small pool. But that will be seldom.
Oh, so many problems in one paragraph...
1.) Wrong. The first round that I was in the small pool, I shared, just like I said I would. I did so even predicting that either everyone would share or 3+ teams would steal. Three teams stole. I knew Troopscott was going to steal and would not be convinced otherwise.
Either way, I shared, so your first sentence is wrong.
2.) We do share that mission. If we didn't, then I would not have shared the round I was a captain, but I did so on the off-chance that everyone else would share. I advocated in the thread for everyone sharing.
3.) I have been preaching that this game is everyone v. Mike. I still believe that. Unless YOU decide to change that. If not, then the only exception is TroopScott. If he and I are both captains, I will submit an unchangeable vote to steal immediately regardless of what my team wants.
4.) You should care. If you deliberately shut the small pool out of a round, like shutting two of us out was being talked about, all bets are off with respect to me sharing. In fact, the share pool being disproportionate to the steal pool will make it MORE LIKELY I steal if I felt I got screwed over earlier.
Quote: SOOPOOOk boys and girl..... The 'small pool' people are way behind the 'big pool' people. Any of the individuals are also way behind the 'big pool' people. I would hope that ALL players would take this opportunity to join the big pool. I think the big pool people would be happy to share our good fortune, as most of the good fortune is due to the infusion of funds from OD. Everyone joining the 'big pool', clearly +EV for the individuals and 'small poolers', would be +EV for everyone, because it would allow a team approach in case Mike throws a tactic like $200 all share, $120 if not, which would highly encourage a single stealer. If we all get together now we thwart any and all tactics Mike could use. King SOOPOO has spoken.
If.
Every.
Single.
Player.
Joins.
The.
Big.
Pool.
The.
Game.
Is.
Effectively.
Over.
