Mosca
Mosca
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
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September 29th, 2010 at 3:54:06 PM permalink
Quote: Calder

I guess if you think this is the point I made, you may claim to have refuted it.

By the way, know a good hangover cure?



The only one I know is to stay drunk...

I reread your post, and I'm sorry that I missed your point and attributed to you a stance you hadn't taken. In my defense, I can only say that I'm not used to people making reasonable and cogent statements on the internet.

To paraphrase it back to you, to make sure I got it (no sarcasm; I'm interested) your point is that the relationship between belief and intelligence is not direct. If so, that is mine as well; we are in agreement.
NO KILL I
chook
chook
Joined: Jul 5, 2010
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September 29th, 2010 at 3:57:42 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca


Newton or Muhammad ibn Musa al-Kwarizm?

I have to give this one to Muhammad ibn Musa al-Kwarizm. So +1 for Islam!

Who's next?

Muhammad ibn Musa al-Kwarizm or ????



This raises a another question.
What happened to the very clever Islamists?
If they still exist, they don't seem to have much influence anymore.
You can't trust a dog to mind your food.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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September 29th, 2010 at 6:25:44 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Pepsi Machines: Is that the best you can do for a church scandal? Compare that to the current pope, who turned a blind eye towards pedophile priests for years before he was promoted to pope.



Well, the Church turned a blind eye to the Holocaust, so buggering altar boys seems rather trivial by comparison.

Re the Mormon Church: if I want to relate a scandal, I need to look no further than the Mountain Meadows Massacre. They're STILL trying to hush that one up in Salt Lake City.

The Pepsi example was more meant to show the Church's hypocrisy. Caffeine is WRONG and AN EVIL DRUG unless we can make some bucks off of it. To me, this is emblematic of the fact that the Mormon Church was originally invented purely as a moneymaking endeavor; sort of like Scientology.

Besides, you had asked for the ridiculous, not necessarily the scandalous.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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September 29th, 2010 at 7:11:15 PM permalink
The Wizard makes a good point about the Mormon tablets being just as ridiculous as the Ten Commandments. I personally think Mormonism is the most batsh*t crazy religion out there. Their stuff makes transubstantiation seem tame. History has tempered the ridiculousness of the Big 3 religions. I think Scientology is similar; in a while, it will become an accepted religion just like Mormonism is now. I think L. Ron Hubbard just made a bet that he could create an actual religion out of his science fiction books.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
EnvyBonus
EnvyBonus
Joined: Nov 24, 2009
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September 29th, 2010 at 8:03:34 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Well, the Church turned a blind eye to the Holocaust, so buggering altar boys seems rather trivial by comparison.



If you meant trivial by the amount of harm, I think child sexual molestation is just as bad as murder.

If you meant trivial in scope, then I agree the Holocaust was obviously far worse.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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September 29th, 2010 at 8:22:16 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

I personally think Mormonism is the most batsh*t crazy religion out there.



Of the current religions it may be. But if you want something a lot weirder, try reading the "Popol Vuh" It's an ancient Mayan religious text. Did you know the gods fashioned people out of corn?

Quote:

I think Scientology is similar; in a while, it will become an accepted religion just like Mormonism is now. I think L. Ron Hubbard just made a bet that he could create an actual religion out of his science fiction books.



Scientology is a scam. Hubbard started it as a kind of psychotherapy, but had to give it up since it was subject to oversight. A religion can do as it damned well pleases.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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September 29th, 2010 at 8:24:22 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Well, the Church turned a blind eye to the Holocaust, so buggering altar boys seems rather trivial by comparison.



Good point.

Quote: mkl654321

Re the Mormon Church: if I want to relate a scandal, I need to look no further than the Mountain Meadows Massacre. They're STILL trying to hush that one up in Salt Lake City.



That is going back a ways, and the Mormons have their version of it. Can you elaboriate on the hushing it up in SLC? I'm not saying you're wrong, just trying to learn something.

Quote: mkl654321

The Pepsi example was more meant to show the Church's hypocrisy. Caffeine is WRONG and AN EVIL DRUG unless we can make some bucks off of it. To me, this is emblematic of the fact that the Mormon Church was originally invented purely as a moneymaking endeavor; sort of like Scientology.



I knew they softened their position on caffeine, but not the reasons why. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mormons would say that their church is a work in progress. How else could you explain the change of position on polygamy? I think I prefer flexibility to the unchanging dogma of Catholicism.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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September 29th, 2010 at 8:39:53 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I knew they softened their position on caffeine, but not the reasons why.




I've two Mormon coworkers. I've been very careful not to ask them questions, because it's my experience that Mormons take curiosity as permission to proselytize. But sometimes they do talk about their faith. from what I understand, caffeine and alcohol are not forbidden, but are discouraged. It's not like Judaism and pork, for example.

BTW, they are two of the nicest people I know.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Calder
Calder
Joined: Mar 26, 2010
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September 29th, 2010 at 8:51:41 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

The only one I know is to stay drunk...


If only my boss was as open-minded...
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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September 29th, 2010 at 9:46:43 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Good point.

That is going back a ways, and the Mormons have their version of it. Can you elaboriate on the hushing it up in SLC? I'm not saying you're wrong, just trying to learn something.

I knew they softened their position on caffeine, but not the reasons why. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mormons would say that their church is a work in progress. How else could you explain the change of position on polygamy? I think I prefer flexibility to the unchanging dogma of Catholicism.



Re polygamy: the Territory of Utah met the qualifications for admission into the Union as a state by 1850. However, the issue of polygamy attracted sufficient opposition to the granting of statehood. When the US Army invaded Utah in 1857, they withdrew only after promises were exacted that polygamy would eventually be outlawed by Mormon leaders. Polygamy became a federal crime in 1862, but the laws against it were not enforced. However, it continued to be made clear that polygamy would be a barrier to statehood. In 1890, Mormon leaders issued a manifesto against polygamy, which was communicated to Washington. Utah was finally granted statehood in 1896. The change of position on polygamy was due to the desire of Utahns to be full-fledged US citizens, and send representatives to Washington. Utah was in danger of being marginalized and bypassed due to its lesser status as a territory. The invasion of 1857 lingered fresh in Utahns' minds--it was legal for the army to invade a TERRITORY for the purposes of restoring order/putting down "insurrection", but not a loyal state.

Re Mormon Meadows: http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_mountainmeadosmassacre.html

I've visited the site of the massacre. Read the post on the website above for a vivid description of the site--it's accurate. I was appalled at the lack of truth at the site where 120 men, women and children were slaughtered.

As far as Mormonism being a work in progress, I believe you're correct. I, also, see them as less dogmatic than Catholics. (But that's not saying much--Mao Tse Tung was also less dogmatic.) Mormons are almost always very nice people (if you can fend off the conversion attempts); you would like to have them as neighbors. I see them as having taken a religion that was (is) a travesty of an actual religion and turned it into something worthwhile. That's in direct contrast to the Catholics having taken something that was worthwhile and turned it into a travesty.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw

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