chook
chook
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September 28th, 2010 at 10:03:12 PM permalink
Quote: Calder

This remains a matter of faith, obviously.
Those who fancy themselves rationalists may want to consider that Galileo, Newton, and Einstein were Christians...



It is pointless having faith in something that obviously isn't true, no matter what your other qualifications are.
You can't trust a dog to mind your food.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 28th, 2010 at 10:04:50 PM permalink
Quote: chook

It is pointless having faith in something that obviously isn't true, no matter what your other qualifications are.



Faith is just something people resort to when they have no idea what the real answer is. Faith based on nothing is, well, nothing.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
wildqat
wildqat
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September 28th, 2010 at 10:13:34 PM permalink
13.
Quote: Wizard

Just goes to show what they said in SAT prep class was right -- you should go with your first instinct.


Agreed. On prayer in school, my gut instinct said no, prayer is not allowed in school, but then again, my gut is usually full of shit, so I psyched myself into answering "yes" (thinking that as long as you're not pushing one religion over another, it's OK, forgetting that the First Amendment also covers theism over atheism).

Also, I had never heard of a Great Awakening, much less that there were multiple ones that implied that there was a first one.

Quote: Wizard

So, can any Catholics on the board explain this to me? Was (A) really the right answer? Does the bread and wine actually contain the DNA of Jesus after the priest blesses it, or whatever he does. Does any physical change happen to the bread and wine? I will have follow up questions either way.


As said before, it's called transubstantiation. The gist of it is that the bread and wine take the substance of Jesus' body and blood. The physical aspects don't change; they still have the physical appearance, taste, etc. of bread and wine, down to a molecular level. They don't become flesh and blood in any physically detectable way, but by being blessed, they take the substance of Jesus, and therefore his divinity, and by taking them, his divinity becomes part of the taker.

Quote: mkl654321

(if you want to ensure that someone grows up to be an atheist, send them to Catholic school)


I only went for three years (well, that and seven years of Sunday School), and... yeah, pretty much. Then again, I never really cared enough about religion enough to deny it.

Quote: mkl654321

I can't imagine the pharmacological implications of eating somebody who's been dead for 2000 years.


No, Jesus is risen and alive, so he's actually very fresh, like divine sashimi.

Quote: mkl654321

Oh, well, that's no dumber than believing there's a man in the sky who actually cares whether you eat fish on Friday or not.


That's the same guy. The God of Abraham (who is also the father of Christ) doesn't care if you eat fish on Friday. Might be a broblem if you cook it, though.
Calder
Calder
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September 28th, 2010 at 10:17:31 PM permalink
I claimed no qualifications, I merely cited those of people [Galileo, Newton] who are a lot smarter than me, and, I'm confident, you.
chook
chook
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September 28th, 2010 at 10:23:18 PM permalink
Quote: Calder

I claimed no qualifications, I merely cited those of people [Galileo, Newton] who are a lot smarter than me, and, I'm confident, you.



I don't know what information they had available.
But, a God who thought that Adam & Eve and Noah actually existed, can't exactly be omniscient.
You can't trust a dog to mind your food.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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September 28th, 2010 at 10:26:00 PM permalink
Quote: Calder

I'm confident it would taste like bread to you, Mr. Wizard. As I noted, I'm not Catholic, nor do I make any claim of expertise in Catholic doctrine, nor would I expect any adherents on this board. This remains a matter of faith, obviously.

Those who fancy themselves rationalists may want to consider that Galileo, Newton, and Einstein were Christians, or at least in Albert's case, believed in God. You may pooh-pooh the scientific method, but it was (arguably) invented and flourished in the Christian west. One needn't be superstitious to acknowledge that much.



I doubt that Galileo was much of a Christian, since he flouted their doctrines, then they arrested him, charged him with heresy, nearly executed him, then kept him under house arrest for the rest of his life.

Newton was more of a mystic than a Christian. He pissed away a dozen years of his life studying alchemy, and he believed in the occult--his Theory of Gravitation was an artifact of his belief in something very much akin to "the Force" (in other words, he was right for the wrong reasons). He did spend a great deal of time trying to prove that the Bible was literally true, but he diverged from Christian interpretations of the text.

Einstein's God that "does not play dice with the universe" was an entirely different God than the Christian one. Richard Dawkins gives an excellent account of this in his book, "The God Delusion".

I realize that the scientific method flourished in the West during the late Renaissance, but that was despite the Catholic Church and Christianity, not because of it. For one thing, the Church persecuted scientists well into the 19th century. I would also point out that the scientific method had been flourishing in the Middle East for 700 years by the time it got to the Christian West (which, in turn, can be traced to the fall of Constantinople and the migration of scholars and texts from that city to Venice).
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Wizard
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Wizard
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September 28th, 2010 at 10:31:26 PM permalink
Quote: wildqat

As said before, it's called transubstantiation. The gist of it is that the bread and wine take the substance of Jesus' body and blood. The physical aspects don't change; they still have the physical appearance, taste, etc. of bread and wine, down to a molecular level. They don't become flesh and blood in any physically detectable way, but by being blessed, they take the substance of Jesus, and therefore his divinity, and by taking them, his divinity becomes part of the taker.



If that is the case, then I feel (B) is the correct answer. Here it is again:

Quote: answer B

The bread and wine are symbols of the body and blood of Jesus Christ.



If not, then can you elaborate on the meaning of the word "substance"? If the bread does not literally become meat, then I think I was wronged, and should get a 13 on the test!
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 28th, 2010 at 10:47:26 PM permalink
Quote: wildqat



No, Jesus is risen and alive, so he's actually very fresh, like divine sashimi.



Or Elvis.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
wildqat
wildqat
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September 28th, 2010 at 10:51:22 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

If not, then can you elaborate on the meaning of the word "substance"?


Um, not really, but Wikipedia can.

Quote: Wizard

If the bread does not literally become meat, then I think I was wronged, and should get a 13 on the test!


The way I understand it, it doesn't literally become meat; it becomes Christ with the appearance of bread and wine. Not just a symbol of Christ, as the Protestants believe; it's the (Son of) man himself. And when I say "appearance," I mean in every physically measurable way, they have the physical appearance and properties of bread and wine.

Really, the best I can do is say "Read the Wiki articles" because I can't really explain it properly, being not-a-philosopher and not religious.
wildqat
wildqat
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September 28th, 2010 at 10:54:45 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Or Elvis.


Elvis is Jesus? Well, that explains why he does so well against the undead.

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