## Poll

 Zero is even. 16 votes (40%) Zero is odd. 1 vote (2.5%) Zero is neither odd nor even. 19 votes (47.5%) I get confused when it comes to zero and infinity. 2 votes (5%) I accept your challenge, Wiz! 1 vote (2.5%) I have zero interest in this topic. 3 votes (7.5%) Remember that Zero game at the Golden Nugget? 2 votes (5%) I still don't understand what 0^0 equals. 4 votes (10%) Why do you never hear "buxom brunette?" 6 votes (15%) Why is there no channel zero? 5 votes (12.5%)

40 members have voted

Wizard
• Posts: 26704
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
August 13th, 2016 at 8:42:28 PM permalink
This has been touched on before but the video below has renewed my interest in the topic. A very good mathematical argument could be made that zero is an even number. However, if you bet on even in roulette, and the ball lands in zero, the casino would take your money. Or at least half of it. I'm not saying that this is wrong or cheating, but at least deserves to be examined and perhaps challenged.

If I were half my age I probably would have put this to the test by betting on even until the ball landed in zero and then called gaming after the ball landed in zero and I wasn't paid. Of course I would lose but sometimes you have to fight on principle.

However, at the age of 51 I think I'm past such antics. Nevertheless, I would challenge any of our cocky younger members to give it a try. I would certainly volunteer to be an expert witness on the nature of the evenness of the number zero.

The question for the poll is what kind of number is zero?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
ChesterDog

• Posts: 1611
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
August 13th, 2016 at 9:00:25 PM permalink
I voted that zero is an even number, but for roulette I think zero should be neither even nor odd.

Several years ago, I played my \$10 "direct bet" coupon on even at Caesar's in Atlantic City (the only bets allowed for that coupon in roulette were red or even.) The ball landed on 0, and the dealer paid my bet. I looked confused because he didn't not pay me and take my coupon or call it a push or pay my coupon half, and he said, "You won!" Both dealers agreed that I had won. I should have asked them to explain.
darkoz
• Posts: 11655
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August 13th, 2016 at 9:28:45 PM permalink
I have heard the argument that zero is not even a number at all.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Joeshlabotnik
• Posts: 943
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August 13th, 2016 at 10:27:57 PM permalink
The definition of an even number is one that divided by two, leaves no remainder. Zero divided by two equals zero, with no remainder. So it is unequivocally an even number.

Whether the casino roulette green zero is an even number is a different question. The "Even" bet does not mean "mathematically even." It means "even, as the casino defines it." We all know that reality, inside a casino, is what the casino says it is.

Perhaps the most powerful argument for zero NOT being an even number in Casino World is that if it was, then 00 would, logically, have to be an even number as well. Perhaps the 0 and 00 spaces should be replaced with a green star and a blue star, and you could bet on either star or both. But the traditions of roulette are too entrenched for that.
Wizard
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August 14th, 2016 at 3:46:21 AM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

The definition of an even number is one that divided by two, leaves no remainder. Zero divided by two equals zero, with no remainder. So it is unequivocally an even number.

Agreed. There are other tests of evenness and zero passes them too.

Quote:

Whether the casino roulette green zero is an even number is a different question. The "Even" bet does not mean "mathematically even." It means "even, as the casino defines it." We all know that reality, inside a casino, is what the casino says it is.

Yes, I'm sure the casino would argue that, and the argument has some merit. I think one might say that at the time roulette was invented, zero was incorrectly thought of as neither even nor odd.

Quote:

Perhaps the most powerful argument for zero NOT being an even number in Casino World is that if it was, then 00 would, logically, have to be an even number as well. Perhaps the 0 and 00 spaces should be replaced with a green star and a blue star, and you could bet on either star or both. But the traditions of roulette are too entrenched for that.

Yes, I thought of the double-zero argument as well. I've never heard of a "double zero" except in roulette. It does bolster the argument that both the single zero and double zero refer to the numerals and not a mathematical quantity.

I've said all along that the casino would very likely win such a dispute, and am not even saying they shouldn't. Just that I think an argument could be made the other way too and it would be interesting to see the debate play out. Might even make the mainstream media.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
TwoFeathersATL
• Posts: 3616
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August 14th, 2016 at 4:46:43 AM permalink
I consider zero to be the absence of numerical value.
The void before creation.

Hence, if one called DRich 'a big zero' it should be considered an insult ;-)

However, if one called DRich 'a little zero', well, that might be even more insulting.
So if there is a difference between a big zero and a little zero,
I may have made a mistake in my initial statement.
Back to the chalkboard.....

So far, I have discovered that one calling DRich 'a big zero' is no more insulting than two calling DRich 'a big zero'. I'll keep you informed;-)
Last edited by: TwoFeathersATL on Aug 14, 2016
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
TwoFeathersATL
• Posts: 3616
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August 14th, 2016 at 5:21:58 AM permalink
For the record, I am not picking on DRich, he just seems a good sport.
I could have used Joeshlabotnik for the illustration.
But I'm saving him for the discussion of negative numbers ;-)

Or maybe for odd numbers.
Definitely not for the discussion of zero.
There is definitely something there.
Some things are hard to quantify when you are a low intellect flyover state resident.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
AZDuffman
• Posts: 14186
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August 14th, 2016 at 5:22:43 AM permalink
IIRC we were taught that zero is neither even nor odd but behaves more like even. Zero is almost not a number but rather created as a "placeholder." You cannot "have" zero of something.

If you called gaming the reply would be along the lines of, "No, even does not pay on zero, and I don't have Prince Albert in a can, either. Go back to your homework!"
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
darkoz
• Posts: 11655
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August 14th, 2016 at 6:05:01 AM permalink
Per any gaming argument, if it was in Atlantic City, they most likely would point to the plaque on the table which states on any outside bets player only loses half of their wager on a zero/double zero outcome and claim the rules, regardless of zero being an even number or not are clearly stated.

In Craps, the 12 is paid double or triple in the field because the rules state as such. That is an instance in the players favor. It works both ways with printed rules.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Wizard
• Posts: 26704
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August 14th, 2016 at 7:36:36 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

In Craps, the 12 is paid double or triple in the field because the rules state as such. That is an instance in the players favor. It works both ways with printed rules.

In Vegas few roulette tables have the rule where you lose only half on even money bets if the ball lands in zero. So I would agree I would have a lousy case in Atlantic City, because the rules already specifically address what happens on an even bet and the ball lands in either zero. You own't see that in Vegas except on some high limit tables with the "half back" rule.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
DRich
• Posts: 12085
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August 14th, 2016 at 7:48:17 AM permalink
You would have no chance with Nevada Gaming. Rules of all games have been approved by them and I'm sure it says that odd/even bets lose on green. You could possibly argue to have them disclose it on the table because it could be considered misleading.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Doc
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August 14th, 2016 at 7:53:57 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I've never heard of a "double zero" except in roulette.

You might consider the topic of basketball jerseys.

In high school, the NCAA, and the NBA, a team is allowed to have a player with a jersey number of either 0 or 00 but not players with each of those numbers. I have seen scoreboards (the kind that also list individual statistics during a game) which seem to have the shortcoming of only being able to display 0 or 00 without regard for which version the player was really wearing. Incidentally, there have been some well-known players that wore 00, including Robert Parish of the Boston Celtics.

Neither 0 nor 00 is allowed in the NFL, though they were once permitted.

So, "00" is not really unique to roulette.
AZDuffman
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Joined: Nov 2, 2009
August 14th, 2016 at 8:44:05 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

Neither 0 nor 00 is allowed in the NFL, though they were once permitted.

So, "00" is not really unique to roulette.

Shame. Wonder when they banned it?

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
wellwellwell
• Posts: 154
Joined: Jun 17, 2015
August 14th, 2016 at 9:38:48 AM permalink
"What difference-at this point, what difference does it make?"

Killary Rodham Clinton, commenting on if zero is an even number
onenickelmiracle
• Posts: 8277
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August 14th, 2016 at 9:53:16 AM permalink
If zero is an even number, there would be more even numbers than odd or then again, maybe not.

1 odd, 2 even, 3 odd, zero even, -1 odd, -2 even, -3 odd,

I think the problem is the definition for odd or even was defined assuming zero was neither and we're forgetting that. I think the whole argument zero is even is based on a fallacy we're blinded to being influenced by the video. I think others would agree dividing by 2 must also give you a different number for the number to be even and zero can't do that. Math is supposed to help understand the universe and not to define it.
I am a robot.
Ibeatyouraces
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August 14th, 2016 at 10:07:32 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

If zero is an even number, there would be more even numbers than odd or then again, maybe not.

What about all the numbers in between whole integers? i.e. 1.234, 2.5487, 3.654, etc. Are these odd or even?
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Doc
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August 14th, 2016 at 10:21:54 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Doc

Neither 0 nor 00 is allowed in the NFL, though they were once permitted.

So, "00" is not really unique to roulette.

Shame. Wonder when they banned it?

According to the ever-reliable Wikipedia, which has that whole page devoted to sports jersey numbers:
Quote:

Numbers 0 and 00 are no longer allowed, but they were issued in the NFL before the number standardization in 1973. George Plimpton wore 0 during a brief preseason stint at quarterback for the Detroit Lions. Jim Otto ("aught-oh") wore number "00" during most of his career with the Oakland Raiders. Wide receiver Ken Burrough of the Houston Oilers also wore "00" during his NFL career in the 1970s.

onenickelmiracle
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August 14th, 2016 at 11:15:24 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

What about all the numbers in between whole integers? i.e. 1.234, 2.5487, 3.654, etc. Are these odd or even?

I believe there is an infinite amount, but half should be even and half odd. I think they can be ignored.
I am a robot.
DJTeddyBear
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August 14th, 2016 at 12:17:33 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

However, if you bet on even in roulette, and the ball lands in zero, the casino would take your money.

Check the Nevada Gaming rules for Roulette. It probably specifies that "Even" is any of "2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36" and that "Odd" is any of "1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,27,29,31,33,35". And I say that, not that they do it to avoid the whole "Is zero even" question, but because they tend to be anal about these sort of things.

But just to play Devil's Advocate for a sec, if zero is even, what's double zero? Seems to me that single zero is odd because there's only one of them, and double zero is even, etc.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Ibeatyouraces
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August 14th, 2016 at 1:19:30 PM permalink
Worst case scenario for casinos is they have to change 0 & 00 to X & XX.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Greasyjohn
• Posts: 2178
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August 14th, 2016 at 2:51:27 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Worst case scenario for casinos is they have to change 0 & 00 to X & XX.

I was thinking that the worst case scenario would be that the zero and double zero are considered "even" when the debate is brought to Gaming and some multi-million dollar compensation would have to be paid by casinos for all the bets they didn't pay through all the years.
Joeshlabotnik
• Posts: 943
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August 14th, 2016 at 4:14:16 PM permalink
No, the worst case scenario is right here: eight people so far have voted that zero is neither even nor odd.

Shows what happens when you spend all of junior high math class staring at Mary Jane Johnson's tits.

But if that case is ever brought before Gaming, I'll be sure to testify that I saw you place \$10,000 on "even" at the Platinum Palace and you didn't get paid when 0 came up. If you'll do the same for me, that is.
bobbartop
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August 14th, 2016 at 5:22:06 PM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

No, the worst case scenario is right here: eight people so far have voted that zero is neither even nor odd.

I just voted and made it nine. I want to feel included amongst the people you talk down to. Feeling inferior is one of my few attributes, so I needed the boost to my self esteem.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
gamerfreak
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August 14th, 2016 at 5:24:55 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I just voted and made it nine. I want to feel included amongst the people you talk down to. Feeling inferior is one of my few attributes, so I needed the boost to my self esteem.

I pushed it to 10 so it would be even.
bobbartop
• Posts: 2597
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August 14th, 2016 at 5:41:10 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

I pushed it to 10 so it would be even.

that's funny :-)
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
onenickelmiracle
• Posts: 8277
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August 14th, 2016 at 10:40:52 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I just voted and made it nine. I want to feel included amongst the people you talk down to. Feeling inferior is one of my few attributes, so I needed the boost to my self esteem.

I think he is just a computer program.
I am a robot.
TomG
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August 17th, 2016 at 9:02:19 AM permalink
Zero is even, according to everyone who is smarter than I am. From now on I will use my match plays and free bets on 'Even' in roulette and when 0 hits I will ask why I'm not getting paid.
Wizard
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August 17th, 2016 at 10:10:46 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

Zero is even, according to everyone who is smarter than I am. From now on I will use my match plays and free bets on 'Even' in roulette and when 0 hits I will ask why I'm not getting paid.

Good for you! Let me know what they say.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Ibeatyouraces
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August 17th, 2016 at 10:21:08 AM permalink
Next question, is zero + or -?
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Romes
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August 17th, 2016 at 10:23:32 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Next question, is zero + or -?

neither and both
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
MJGolf
• Posts: 105
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August 17th, 2016 at 11:53:27 AM permalink
I'm sure Wiz would agree that in all our "basic" math classes, zero was defined or considered an "even" number.

Not sure about gaming regs but may be negative EV to try to prove it otherwise unless a big enough bet "lost". LOL

But I also defer to the math geniuses (and support my position) with this link:

mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/57188.html

That Zero is indeed an even number.
Wizard
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August 17th, 2016 at 12:44:06 PM permalink
Quote: MJGolf

I'm sure Wiz would agree that in all our "basic" math classes, zero was defined or considered an "even" number.

Yes. Coincidentally, my 10-year-old daughter recently learned this in school.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
gordonm888
• Posts: 5196
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August 17th, 2016 at 12:50:05 PM permalink
Is 1 a prime number?

Is i an even number?

Is it true that 0! =1 ? I mean, really?

What about pi factorial? (3.14159....) ! Is it really equal to 7.188 . . . . . ?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
odiousgambit
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August 17th, 2016 at 12:55:46 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

What about pi factorial? (3.14159....) ! Is it really equal to 7.188 . . . . . ?

according to this online calculator it is 7.183824937508157

http://web2.0calc.com/
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
MathExtremist
• Posts: 6526
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August 17th, 2016 at 4:26:35 PM permalink
Quote: MJGolf

I'm sure Wiz would agree that in all our "basic" math classes, zero was defined or considered an "even" number.

Not sure about gaming regs but may be negative EV to try to prove it otherwise unless a big enough bet "lost". LOL

But I also defer to the math geniuses (and support my position) with this link:

mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/57188.html

That Zero is indeed an even number.

Yes, zero is even by definition. The even numbers E are defined as all integers of the form 2n where n is any integer. 0 is an integer, so 2*0 is even.

The fact that 0 is not even in roulette is simply an artifact of the game, not a mathematical paradox. It's like how 12 is greater than 9 numerically but not in baccarat, or how J, K, Q are in order alphabetically but not in poker. It's just a different yardstick. The yardstick for all integers (or just even integers) is not the same yardstick as the one printed circularly on the roulette wheel, even if it uses some of the same symbols.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
MathExtremist
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August 17th, 2016 at 4:35:43 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Is 1 a prime number?

Is i an even number?

Is it true that 0! =1 ? I mean, really?

What about pi factorial? (3.14159....) ! Is it really equal to 7.188 . . . . . ?

Yup:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=gamma(pi%2B1)
Except normally for non-integers you'd use the gamma function rather than the factorial. See here:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GammaFunction.html
And because gamma(1) = 1, and gamma(n) = (n-1)!, 0! = 1.

(i is not even because it's not an integer, and 1 is not prime because it has only one unique integral factor. For more fun with primes, http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PrimeNumber.html)
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Wizard
• Posts: 26704
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August 17th, 2016 at 4:38:24 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

That Zero is indeed an even number.

Yes, zero is even by definition. The even numbers E are defined as all integers of the form 2n where n is any integer. 0 is an integer, so 2*0 is even.

You're absolutely right. Here is a source:

Quote: Wolfram MathWorld

An even number is an integer of the form n=2k, where k is an integer. The even numbers are therefore ..., -4, -2, 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, ...

Source

Quote:

The fact that 0 is not even in roulette is simply an artifact of the game, not a mathematical paradox. It's like how 12 is greater than 9 numerically but not in baccarat, or how J, K, Q are in order alphabetically but not in poker. It's just a different yardstick. The yardstick for all integers (or just even integers) is not the same yardstick as the one printed circularly on the roulette wheel, even if it uses some of the same symbols.

One could easily produce rules for baccarat that explain how you look at the terminal digit for the points. The order of cards in poker is stated in hundreds of sources. However, I've checked some gaming guides for details on the Even bet and they just say it pays 1 to 1, not what causes it to win.

Now, how about signing up for the Cooperation Game?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
MathExtremist
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August 17th, 2016 at 4:56:07 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

One could easily produce rules for baccarat that explain how you look at the terminal digit for the points. The order of cards in poker is stated in hundreds of sources. However, I've checked some gaming guides for details on the Even bet and they just say it pays 1 to 1, not what causes it to win.

New Jersey regs explicitly say that zero (or double zero) cause the Even bet to lose:
Quote: DGE Chapter 69F: 13:69F-5.2 Roulette: payout odds

(b) When roulette is played on a double zero wheel and the roulette ball
comes to rest in a compartment marked zero (0) or double zero (00), a player shall lose,
at the casino licensee’s option, either one-half of each wager on red, black, odd, even, 1
to 18, and 19 to 36 or the entire wager. If the former option is chosen by a casino
licensee, the remaining half of each such wager shall be returned to the player by the
dealer. Each casino licensee offering double zero roulette shall provide notice of the
option in effect at the table in accordance with the provisions of N.J.A.C. 13:69F-8.3.
(c) When roulette is played on a single zero wheel and the roulette ball
comes to rest in a compartment marked zero (0), wagers on red, black, odd, even, 1 to
18, and 19 to 36 shall be lost.

despite then saying that ""Even" is a wager that the roulette ball will come to rest in any compartment of the roulette wheel that corresponds to an even number. "
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Wizard
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August 17th, 2016 at 5:15:28 PM permalink
Quote: NJ regs

at the casino licensee’s option, either one-half of each wager on red, black, odd, even, 1
to 18, and 19 to 36 or the entire wager.

I didn't know that they had a choice in the matter. Seems at every AC casino you lose half on even money bets when the ball lands in a zero. Then again, I haven't been there in at least 15 years.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
JyBrd0403
• Posts: 548
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August 18th, 2016 at 2:42:24 AM permalink
If you consider 0 an integer and a number, what symbol and word do you now want to use to denote the absence of an integer or number?

You can't use a number to denote the absence of all numbers, because you would have at least 1 number represented by the number your using to denote the absence of all numbers. That would be like using an apple to represent that you have no apples. "This apple here represents that we have no apples". -- "Excuse me Professor, don't you have 1 apple there?".

It's just stupid, and easily avoidable by not calling 0 a number. If 0 is not a number, but rather a lack of numbers, then there is no problem. There's loads of problems that an inquisitive 12 year old can cause if 0 is considered a number.

So, back to your Roulette question, grab that cocky kid and have at it, he'll have loads of support from the present math community (not the historic ones), but if he takes it to court he still won't win the case --- Everybody knows zero's not a number.
Wizard
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August 18th, 2016 at 6:12:24 AM permalink
Quote: JyBrd0403

If you consider 0 an integer and a number, what symbol and word do you now want to use to denote the absence of an integer or number?

Somebody suggested before the problem could be avoided if they used a star or a joker instead of a zero, which I agree with.

I'm still looking for a volunteer to make a case out of this. I'll cover any gambling losses while waiting for the zero.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Joeshlabotnik
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August 18th, 2016 at 7:38:54 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Somebody suggested before the problem could be avoided if they used a star or a joker instead of a zero, which I agree with.

I'm still looking for a volunteer to make a case out of this. I'll cover any gambling losses while waiting for the zero.

Ooh, pick me, pick me. I've never been thrown out of a casino.

Would the experiment have to be conducted in a Vegas casino, or just in any casino?

It would cost, on average, one bet to wait for a 0 or 00 to come up, and two bets for specifically 0, right? So this could be a \$10 experiment at any Strip casino.
gamerfreak
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August 18th, 2016 at 7:41:20 AM permalink
Quote: JyBrd0403

If you consider 0 an integer and a number, what symbol and word do you now want to use to denote the absence of an integer or number?

Not sure about mathematics, but this is called a null value in computer science, and how that is symbolized can vary between programming languages.
Joeshlabotnik
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August 18th, 2016 at 7:47:21 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Not sure about mathematics, but this is called a null value in computer science, and how that is symbolized can vary between programming languages.

It's also called that in mathematics, and in many other sciences as well. It's the absence of a value, with the recognition that zero IS a numerical value and thus, a null is something different.

In the physical sciences, you could be measuring for an effect, quantity, etc. and get either a zero or null value. A zero would mean that the measurement was made, and the measured amount was zero. A null would mean that the measurement couldn't be made, for whatever reason.
MathExtremist
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August 18th, 2016 at 8:05:24 AM permalink
Additionally, a + 0 = a, but a + null is undefined because "adding null" is not a valid operation. 0 is a number, null is not. The analogy of using an apple to denote having no apples is inapt; numbers are symbolic representations, they are not tangible objects. Here is a picture of 0 apples:

And here is the initial player inventory from the 1984 Infocom game "A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy":
`>inventoryYou have:  a splitting headache  no tea`
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
RS
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August 18th, 2016 at 2:10:34 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Somebody suggested before the problem could be avoided if they used a star or a joker instead of a zero, which I agree with.

I'm still looking for a volunteer to make a case out of this. I'll cover any gambling losses while waiting for the zero.

I lost \$10k. Where's my money?
Wizard
• Posts: 26704
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
August 18th, 2016 at 2:14:42 PM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

Ooh, pick me, pick me. I've never been thrown out of a casino.

Would the experiment have to be conducted in a Vegas casino, or just in any casino?

It would cost, on average, one bet to wait for a 0 or 00 to come up, and two bets for specifically 0, right? So this could be a \$10 experiment at any Strip casino.

Anybody could do this on their own but I am only offering to help if it is done in Vegas.

If we waited for a single-zero on a double-zero wheel, at \$10 a bet, the expected loss would be \$19.99.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
• Posts: 26704
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
August 18th, 2016 at 2:18:44 PM permalink
Quote: JyBrd0403

If you consider 0 an integer and a number, what symbol and word do you now want to use to denote the absence of an integer or number?

Good question. Would the answer to 0^0 fit this description? If not, the answer to what question would be such a void?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Ayecarumba