RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
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February 26th, 2014 at 4:49:21 PM permalink
Quote: Lemieux66

There something, as a Pens fan, that makes me very happy Ovechkin will never be involved in the Greatest Of question.



See! When you try hard enough, there is always common ground to be found. ;-)

My wife and I were torn. We would have loved to see Semin get a medal in the Olypmics, but that would have meant Ovechkin would have gotten one too. NO way rooting for that to happen. Sorry Sem.

I do not like Ovechkin at all, but I would be happy if the Canes signed him. He is easy to hate as an opposing player, and I think he is a dirty player too, but he knows how to score.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Tomspur
Tomspur
Joined: Jul 12, 2013
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February 26th, 2014 at 4:51:55 PM permalink
Just based on this skewed motion in this thread now I have to ask this question......

Are your choices for "all time greats" simply based on the players and their acheivements or does it matter which teams they play/played for?

In my case (I like baseball), Cal Ripken JR will always be the best ball player for me (in large part because he played for my favorite team). He probably wasn't the best all time but for me he was.

What characteristics do you use when selecting "all time great"?
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
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February 26th, 2014 at 5:02:44 PM permalink
Quote: Tomspur

Just based on this skewed motion in this thread now I have to ask this question......

Are your choices for "all time greats" simply based on the players and their acheivements or does it matter which teams they play/played for?

In my case (I like baseball), Cal Ripken JR will always be the best ball player for me (in large part because he played for my favorite team). He probably wasn't the best all time but for me he was.

What characteristics do you use when selecting "all time great"?



Well, since the thread is getting split anyway, I'll continue with the OT.

If you start factoring in the strength of the team they played for, then you have to factor in the relative strength of each of their opponents, when each game was played. You would also have to rate the effect of each teammate. For instance, if Cal is batting third, and you have a monster batting clean up, Cal will get better pitches to hit in certain situations.
In the end, I think you can really only base your opinion on what was accomplished, with some minor discretionary tweaks . Cal was a workhorse. And I don't recall ever reading where he had any 'personal' issues that follow so many stars. I'm not sure I would rate him the greatest, but he is very close to the top for me.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
Joined: Feb 16, 2014
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February 26th, 2014 at 5:10:44 PM permalink
Quote: Tomspur

Just based on this skewed motion in this thread now I have to ask this question......

Are your choices for "all time greats" simply based on the players and their acheivements or does it matter which teams they play/played for?

In my case (I like baseball), Cal Ripken JR will always be the best ball player for me (in large part because he played for my favorite team). He probably wasn't the best all time but for me he was.

What characteristics do you use when selecting "all time great"?



Team, health, stats, era played. Accomplishments to a degree, but the team part is a big piece of the accomplishments.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
98Clubs
98Clubs
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
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February 26th, 2014 at 5:20:25 PM permalink
I would have to agree, but not willingly. Sanders and the Juice themselves can only bring a team so far. Then again the old arguement used to be put Messier on the Pens and see what happens. So I tend to think "ensemble", a pair or three of a team can achieve greatness. It got the Rangers a Cup, and the Bills to a SuperBowl 4 in a row, and then theres the Islanders, and Farve, etc. Yeah, its team, but theres that group in the team that elevates sea-level so to speak.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
boymimbo
boymimbo
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February 26th, 2014 at 6:16:09 PM permalink
I'd put Carlin over Pryor, Gretzky over Howe/Lemieux, but my favorite comedians are probably Williams followed by Cosby.

Tai Domi? Come on...!
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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February 26th, 2014 at 6:27:45 PM permalink
In MI there's only Gordy Howe. The rest
aren't fit to shine his shoes.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Tomspur
Tomspur
Joined: Jul 12, 2013
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February 26th, 2014 at 6:44:07 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

In MI there's only Gordy Howe. The rest
aren't fit to shine his shoes.



He had a race horse named after him. A dark bay by Japanese sire Hat Trick.

Horse's name was Howe Great
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
Face
Administrator
Face
Joined: Dec 27, 2010
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February 26th, 2014 at 6:45:36 PM permalink
Quote: Tomspur


In my case (I like baseball)...





Haha, kidding! ;)

Quote: Buzzard


Face, ever hear of Jim Brown? And an even greater man after he retired from football.



All due respect to the warriors of your era, but Brown retired 15 years before I was even born. And, since they didn't even have TV back in your day, I've never seen the man in action.

I kid, I kid. I'm on a roll tonight! XD

Quote: thecesspit


I'd go for Sanders over Brown, but I'm a biased Lions fan (This is not a insult, Face. Not even a self-insult :p).



We may bicker about many things, but it will never be this. Sanders was The Man.

Quote: RaleighCraps

See! When you try hard enough, there is always common ground to be found. ;-)

My wife and I were torn. We would have loved to see Semin get a medal in the Olypmics, but that would have meant Ovechkin would have gotten one too. NO way rooting for that to happen. Sorry Sem.



Ovi bothers me to no end. He's one of those fancy European skaters, so I already by default want to see him get pummeled. But dude can move. He's got the stuff. That slightly makes up for it. What moves him into the "like" territory is his grit. Guy can smash someone and often does, which is something worth saying for a fancy guy. More than you'll ever see that slap fighter Cindy Crosby do. But what solidifies him into "hatred" territory to me is his lack of heart. I've seen that guy coast more than I do after 140 straight minutes without a line change. I don't care if it's minute 1 or minute 60, if it's the first game of the year or the last, if it's game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals or some throwaway game after you're already mathematically eliminated; if you're on the ice, you work for every second you're out there.

He's the worst thing one could ever be. He's a coaster.

Quote: boymimbo


Tai Domi? Come on...!



Bring it, boymimbo!

The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
Joined: Feb 16, 2014
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February 26th, 2014 at 7:22:49 PM permalink
Ovechkin is worse than a coaster. He is simply a loser! Playoffs? Loser! Olympics? Loser! He has the stench of fail all over him.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.

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