German word of the week
Any input, ideas and requests are highly welcome :-)
So let me present to you the first german word *tada*
Neujahr - New Year
It's actually a one to one translation as 'neu' is the german word for 'new' and 'Jahr' means 'year'. And because we germans love to add words together as one. We just write 'Neujahr'. The word is a noun and all nouns are starting with a capital letter in german (not only names and the link). If you have any questions (I'm really at a loss on how to do this, sorry) feel free to ask them and I'll do me very best to answer them.
So to all of you a:
Frohes Neues!!!!
edit: New Year's Eve is called "Silvester" in Germany...don't ask me why it's also a first name (which apparently comes from the latin word for "belonging to the woods")
Quote: gameterroredit: New Year's Eve is called "Silvester" in Germany...don't ask me why it's also a first name (which apparently comes from the latin word for "belonging to the woods")
As Rome was the dominant power in western Europe and parts of the Middle east and North Africa for several centuries, Latin influenced all the languages there, where it did not wipe them out. Germany was never a part of the empire, but nevertheless it was lightly influenced by Latin. So here and there you find latinisms or Latin-derived words.
I don't speak Latin, but you can't be fluent in a Romance language without picking up some Greek and Latin roots, or finding common or descended words. In this case I can tell you that in Spanish the word "Silvestre" refers to things found in, or belonging to, the wilderness. For example, wild berries would be called "moras silvestres."
Of course "wilderness" denotes any number of things. But in north-central Europe it would usually mean a forest.
Quote: NareedAs Rome was the dominant power in western Europe and parts of the Middle east and North Africa for several centuries, Latin influenced all the languages there, where it did not wipe them out. Germany was never a part of the empire, but nevertheless it was lightly influenced by Latin. So here and there you find latinisms or Latin-derived words.
I don't speak Latin, but you can't be fluent in a Romance language without picking up some Greek and Latin roots, or finding common or descended words. In this case I can tell you that in Spanish the word "Silvestre" refers to things found in, or belonging to, the wilderness. For example, wild berries would be called "moras silvestres."
Of course "wilderness" denotes any number of things. But in north-central Europe it would usually mean a forest.
Well, Germany didn't exist at that time. But lots of regions which are now part of Germany did indeed belong to the Roman Empire. The Limes was running through the current Germany and can still be seen in some places. And yes, spanish, german and of course Italian are influenced by Latin.
what I don't understand...is why New Year's Eve is called 'Silvester" in Germany, considering the original meaning of this word. Maybe it was used in praise of some Pope going by that name. Yeah, i guessed right. It's named after Pope Silvester I. who died on the 31st of December.
Quote: gameterrorWell, Germany didn't exist at that time.
It depends on how you see things. Formally Germany did not exist until the 18th or 19th Century when some powerful Prussian monarch unfied various Germanic nations (as happened in italy, too). But in Ancient Roman times there was a region named Germania (seriously), which was largely unconquered, though not unmolested, by the Republic and Empire. I'm still wading through it, but at the time of the first real emperor, Augustus, the eastern border of the Empire lay at the Rhine river.
So, yes, some areas in what is now Germany were under Roman rule. Also some areas with Germanic populations not aprt of Germany, like Switzerland, Northern Italy, parts of Austria, etc.
The thing is that independent German nations persisted all through the period of Roman hegemony, whom thus developed their own language independently of, but influnced by, Latin. Also other languages derived from German, most notably English.
Quote:And yes, spanish, german and of course Italian are influenced by Latin.
Not quite. German and English have Latin influences. Italian, French and Spanish are descended from Latin. If anythign the latter langauges were influenced, at first, by Greek. But then Latin was too. it's a big, interconnected mess.
Quote:what I don't understand...is why New Year's Eve is called 'Silvester" in Germany, considering the original meaning of this word. Maybe it was used in praise of some Pope going by that name. Yeah, i guessed right. It's named after Pope Silvester I. who died on the 31st of December.
It could be, though the history of the Papacy is an even bigger mess. At one time, if memory serves, there were as many as three reigning Popes in Europe, each claiming absolute authrotiy over the Church (not counting the Eastern Orthodox churches). It could refer to some ancient religious ritual having to do with the forests, too. Forests were once very important for every day life, or for war.
The origin of expressions, bromides, titles, etc are sometimes very murky and open to interpretation. For example, the title of the Pope is Pontifex. That just happens to be very close to the title of the chief religious official in Ancient Rome: Pontifex Maximus. Coincidence? Not at all. Very likely when Rome converted to Christianity, the title was given to the head of the Church for all of Rome. But many people claim it stands for "bridge builder," then spin any of a number of explanations about it.
A humorous side not: in Futurama there's an occasionally mentioned "Space Pope," who as naturally is some kind of reptilian green alien in Papal vestments. His logo reads "Cocodrilus Pontifex." :)
As a suggestion, it might help to give some pronunciation tips. For example, jahr is pronounced "yar." Of course, anything said in Germany should come from down deep in the belly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "r" sound is rolled. Probably not as much as in Spanish, but more than the flat English "r."
Quote: WizardI'm very excited to see that GT decided to go ahead with the German Word of the Week! As I've mentioned from time to time, I'm half German and know perhaps about 200 words of the language. I have only two full cousins and both of them are all the way German and live around Frankfurt. One of them is getting married in June. I plan to attend the wedding, and do some sightseeing in southern Germnay while I'm there. I promise to follow this thread in the hopes of learning some new vocabulary before I go.
Ah, I'll make sure to add usful words for ordering beer and asking about "Kuckucksuhren" :-)
Quote: Wizard
As a suggestion, it might help to give some pronunciation tips. For example, jahr is pronounced "yar." Of course, anything said in Germany should come from down deep in the belly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "r" sound is rolled. Probably not as much as in Spanish, but more than the flat English "r."
How much the "r" is rolled depends on the region. In Franconia (which is basically south-east of Frankfurt) the "r" is rolled heavily :-)
I'll try to add pronuncation to the later posts.
A big thanks to Nareed for her detailed explanations.
Quote: odiousgambitI took a little German in my day [seems to be fading fast] but one thing I remember for sure is that the way I [or seemingly any student] pronounced ich never seemed to be deemed to be correct, no matter what.
Speaking of the word ich, I'd be interested in a true German's take on the meaning of "Ich bin ein Berliner." For those who don't know why I'm asking, President Kennedy said this while in former West Berlin, and I think it one of his most famous quotes. He was trying to say, more or less, that he is with the people of Berlin. However, some believe that what he really said was "I am a jelly donut," because the term for a jelly donut is "berliner." I think the jelly donut theory is an urban legend, but thought I would ask anyway. I first heard about it from Eddie Izzard, who claimed it as fact in one of his shows.
Quote: WizardSpeaking of the word ich, I'd be interested in a true German's take on the meaning of "Ich bin ein Berliner." For those who don't know why I'm asking, President Kennedy said this while in former West Berlin, and I think it one of his most famous quotes. He was trying to say, more or less, that he is with the people of Berlin. However, some believe that what he really said was "I am a jelly donut," because the term for a jelly donut is "berliner." I think the jelly donut theory is an urban legend, but thought I would ask anyway. I first heard about it from Eddie Izzard, who claimed it as fact in one of his shows.
I have also heard this. He should have said merely "Ich bin Berliner" apparently. Probably holds for "Ich bin ein Frankfurter/ Ich bin Frankfurter" too, but I am not the right source to confirm these things either.
Berliner is both the "jelly donut" and an inhabitant of Berlin. I can assure you though, that nobody in Germany mistook the sentence for referring to a jelly donut. This interpretation never occured to me until today.
The closest possible translation would be "I am a Berlinian." It is even more than "being with" the people of Berlin, he was saying he was one of them. And he hit a homerun with that sentence. I was born more than ten years after that speech, but almost everybody in Germany my age and older still knows this sentence.
Quote: odiousgambit
I have also heard this. He should have said merely "Ich bin Berliner" apparently. Probably holds for "Ich bin ein Frankfurter/ Ich bin Frankfurter" too, but I am not the right source to confirm these things either.
"Ich bin Berliner" is what you would say when you tell somebody that you are from Berlin as just a piece of information. If you want to stress that this is something special or important though, you should say "Ich bin ein Berliner." Kennedy did it perfectly right, there is no better way to say what he meant to say.
Quote: CanyoneroThe closest possible translation would be "I am a Berlinian." It is even more than "being with" the people of Berlin, he was saying he was one of them. And he hit a homerun with that sentence. I was born more than ten years after that speech, but almost everybody in Germany my age and older still knows this sentence.
Actually the context was to proclaim what is "the proudest boast in the Free World"
Anything to the idea that the word "ein" should not belong in there? we crossed our posts
Quote: gameterrorA big thanks to Nareed for her detailed explanations.
You're welcome.
History doesn't enter much into language studies, but sometimes it can be very helpful.
Thank you.
Quote: CanyoneroI can assure you though, that nobody in Germany mistook the sentence for referring to a jelly donut.
Of course not. It was a foreign head of state who if he has asked someone on his staff would have been told to say "Ich bin Berliner" but because he felt a certain confidence he boldly asserted "Ich bin ein Berliner" which is an English-German transliteration rather than a translation. Technically it refers to a pastry but everyone knows it was meant as solidarity with residents of Berlin rather than solidarity with donuts.
Its similar to the English "shall" versus "will". I will return and I shall return have different meanings as to importance and emphasis.
There are some cooking terms in French that are translated into English in a literal sense as "rubbers". Obviously a good editor alters the wording.
Quote: WizardSpeaking of the neu jahr, can I trouble somebody to translate this Christmas card from my aunt in Germany.
We wish you, beloved Michael and your family, a Merry Christmas. For the next year (we wish you) much happiness and health.
Many wishes from Margit and family.
Quote: CanyoneroWell, it is a fact in some way.
Berliner is both the "jelly donut" and an inhabitant of Berlin. I can assure you though, that nobody in Germany mistook the sentence for referring to a jelly donut. This interpretation never occured to me until today.
The closest possible translation would be "I am a Berlinian." It is even more than "being with" the people of Berlin, he was saying he was one of them. And he hit a homerun with that sentence. I was born more than ten years after that speech, but almost everybody in Germany my age and older still knows this sentence.
this.
the funny thing is that he spelled "ich" right but most citizens of Berlin don't. Most spell it like "ick" which I think is the way most americans spell it accidentally.
Quote: MangoJWe wish you...
Thanks Mango
"Essen" , noun, meaning 'Food', but also "essen" meaning 'to eat'. And to make matters worse there is also a city called Essen :-)
So it can be used as a noun e.g. : "Das Essen war sehr lecker" => "The food was very good"
Or as a verb: "Lass uns etwas essen gehen" => "Let's go out and having something to eat"
I'll include links to all words now for the correct spelling and meaning to my prefered free translation side. So here is the current word. And you can listen to eat by clicking the small loudspeaker symbol next to it. dict.leo.org
I can still remember one of my old learn German tapes said "Wie ist die essen und wie ist der bier." = How is the food and how is the beer? I may have the articles wrong.
Quote: WizardWould this be like the English "drink." The drinks were very good. Let's go out and have something to drink.
I can still remember one of my old learn German tapes said "Wie ist die essen und wie ist der bier." = How is the food and how is the beer? I may have the articles wrong.
yeah. kind of like "drink" in english. But drink would be "Getränk(e)" (noun) and "trinken" (verb) in german.
wrong articles indeed. "Wie ist das Essen und wie ist das Bier ?". Maybe I can try to write something about articles in german language. Also I sometimes struggle with this myself :-)
In general: "der" masculine, "die" feminine, "das" neuter.
Quote: odiousgambit... and as you ponder the answer no doubt you will quickly come to the conclusion I made all that up.
Quote: WizardI'll go with the obvious guess: George W Bush.
that's how you carefully you read this thread ? i, for one, am ashamed
The direct translation would be something like 'non weather' .... I guess it origions are not a nice weather to have and live in.
Unheil, Undank, Unrat (this might not be a very good example)...
I hope you won't mind if I hijack the thread a little with a question on German etiquette.
I have two cousins, both of whom live in Germany. One speaks very good English (let's call her Gretel) and the other speaks it quite badly (let's call him Hansel). Hansel is getting married in June. Gretel informally invited me to Hansel's wedding by Email, which I accepted. I asked for a more formal invitation twice, but never got a response to those requests. So, I would hate to show up unexpectantly. I could picture Gretel saying she forgot to put me on the guest list when I show up and it causing an awkward situation.
When I brought this up to my mother, who is from Germany, she said to not worry about it. She said in Germany weddings are not like in the US, with a strict head count and formal invitations. She said German weddings are more fun and informal, and don't require a written inviation like in the US. Whoever shows up shows up.
I'm looking to hear from the Germans on the forum about whether I should be more pushy about getting invited directly from Hansel, or not be a nag, and hope to hear more about it as the date gets closer.
Quote: WizardI hope you won't mind if I hijack the thread a little with a question on German etiquette.
I think Germans consider it excessively polite to say "thanks" :P
Seriously. What is the problem? Does your cousing expect you to take an expensive transatlantic flight, not to mention pay for accomodations in inflated Euros for several days for two people (assuming), and for food during that time, and to spring for a wedding gift, all absed on an infomral emal NOT even issued by any of the parties to the wedding? Really? Does this strike you as a "good bet"?
Email her again. Explain everything and ask again. Let her know, nicely, you cannot commit to such an expense in time and money without a firm invitation.
BTW, why is she inviting you if she's not the one getting amrried. Shouldn't the invitation come from the other cousin?
Oh, from my tiny store of German, I'd be careful using the word "gift." Of course maybe I have it all wrong.
Quote: NareedDoes your cousing expect you to take an expensive transatlantic flight, not to mention pay for accomodations in inflated Euros for several days for two people (assuming), and for food during that time, and to spring for a wedding gift, all absed on an infomral emal NOT even issued by any of the parties to the wedding? Really? Does this strike you as a "good bet"?
If I were going only for the wedding I would definitley insist on a firmer invitation. However, there are other things I can accomplish while I'm over there. Nevertheless, if it weren't for the wedding, it would probably tip the scales in favor of not going at all.
The cousin getting married doesn't speak English and has never been a communicator with my parents, who speak German.
The way my mother put it is that weddings in Germany are about as informal as a picnic would be here.
Quote: Nareed... two people (assuming)...
Hope so, or that's going to be one hell of a car ;)
My grobmutter came from the war. Plenty of pics of plenty of different occasions. Don't recall one I'd call "fancy". I know, not the best source, but there's that.
Quote: Nareed
Oh, from my tiny store of German, I'd be careful using the word "gift." Of course maybe I have it all wrong.
Yes, as the german word "Gift" (das Gift) means "poison"....not a very nice present at all ;-)
Quote: WizardThat is a cool word, thanks.
I hope you won't mind if I hijack the thread a little with a question on German etiquette.
I have two cousins, both of whom live in Germany. One speaks very good English (let's call her Gretel) and the other speaks it quite badly (let's call him Hansel). Hansel is getting married in June. Gretel informally invited me to Hansel's wedding by Email, which I accepted. I asked for a more formal invitation twice, but never got a response to those requests. So, I would hate to show up unexpectantly. I could picture Gretel saying she forgot to put me on the guest list when I show up and it causing an awkward situation.
When I brought this up to my mother, who is from Germany, she said to not worry about it. She said in Germany weddings are not like in the US, with a strict head count and formal invitations. She said German weddings are more fun and informal, and don't require a written inviation like in the US. Whoever shows up shows up.
I'm looking to hear from the Germans on the forum about whether I should be more pushy about getting invited directly from Hansel, or not be a nag, and hope to hear more about it as the date gets closer.
Ok, i'll try to explain how german weddings usually go down. There are different parts of a wedding (not all may happen at the same day; and Hansel may not celebrate all of them).
First there is the "Polterabend". This is very informal. Actually you don't really invite someone. You just tell everyone that you are going to celebrate and anyone can show up. There is no dress code at all and everyone is dressed casual. Whoever knows that you are going to merry is going to come and might bring a small present. It's just a big party to drink lots of alcohol :-)
Normally everyone brings some china to smash on the ground for good luck. The party is usally the night before the actual marriage act.
Next there is the "standesamtliche Trauung". This is the official wedding for the law. You just walk down to the civil registry office and sign some papers. This is usually done with just some close friends and family. You should dress nice but not fancy.
Afterwards you might have a "kirchliche Trauung". Church wedding. You are celebrating your marriage in front of God. So you take part in a service of your church. Again no invitation needed. As long as there is space inside the church building everyone is welcome. Seats in the front are reserved for friends and family. You should dress nice...only rule is don't look better than the bride (which should be next to impossible anyway). This can be on the same day as the official wedding ceremony but sometimes is even a year apart.
After the official and/or church wedding there is a big dinner party. Normally lasting all day. This is invitation only. I'd not expect to anyone just showing up and getting a seat. For somebody like you, meaning close family, it shouldn't be a problem to get a seat. But normally all food must be reserved. So you should make sure that your cousin knows you are coming.
I think you are best action would be to get in contact with your cousin and just tell him that you're planning to come to his wedding. He's going to invite you and everything is fine :-)
Quote: FaceHope so, or that's going to be one hell of a car ;)
My grobmutter came from the war. Plenty of pics of plenty of different occasions. Don't recall one I'd call "fancy". I know, not the best source, but there's that.
Großmutter...if you don't have a 'ß' ("scharfes s") just use double s, Grossmutter. Or as used in older times you can use 'sz'.
Quote: gameterrorOk, i'll try to explain how german weddings usually go down.
Thanks! Outstanding answer. That will certainly help me understand what to expect.
Quote: WizardHowever, there are other things I can accomplish while I'm over there. Nevertheless, if it weren't for the wedding, it would probably tip the scales in favor of not going at all.
Whatever. But if you later bitch about it, you won't find much sympathy here.
BTW if you want to travel to Europe, the places more worth going to are Italy and Greece. That's where the West was born, passed its childhood and entered adolescence. And Italian should be rather easy to learn. I can understand it a little in written form. Spoken, not so much. But I've noticed when I watch a movie in Italian, I begin to pick up words from context (alas, I haven't watched any movies in Italian since I last saw "Noi Vivi" with Alida Vali, and that was years ago).
Quote: gameterrorYes, as the german word "Gift" (das Gift) means "poison"....not a very nice present at all ;-)
Considering English is a Germanic language with heavy Latin influences, it makes one wonder how such homonims came about. The English "gift" and "poison" are not derived from Latin, as far as I can tell, and clearly not from German either.
Quote: NareedConsidering English is a Germanic language with heavy Latin influences, it makes one wonder how such homonims came about. The English "gift" and "poison" are not derived from Latin, as far as I can tell, and clearly not from German either.
Not sure...but there is also the german word "Mitgift". Which is kind of like a present for a marriage from the father of the groom to the couple.
I just checked wikipedia and in old german there was also the word "Gift" used as "present". Not sure when or why the new meaning came into action.
About traveling plans to Germany or other parts of Europe. There are a lot of nice places in Europe. Greece and Italy sure have an outstanding history. But we have the best beer in the world :-)
Quote: gameterrorBut we have the best beer in the world :-)
Unfortunately we can't blame beer on Germany. It's history goes way back to the earliest civilizations in Sumeria. It was a reasonable way, then, of preserving food and cleansing water. What's the excuse now? The Greco-Roman way, wine, is much more civilized ;) On the other hand, German wines tend to be underated.
Quote: NareedUnfortunately we can't blame beer on Germany. It's history goes way back to the earliest civilizations in Sumeria. It was a reasonable way, then, of preserving food and cleansing water. What's the excuse now? The Greco-Roman way, wine, is much more civilized ;) On the other hand, German wines tend to be underated.
That's why I just proclaimed we have the BEST beer :-)
We are the first nation to write a law how beer should be brewed (in 1516 already). We have the most breweries (~1300) and brew the most beer in europe.
Why do you think wine is "more civilzed" ? I don't want other people stomping on my drink with their bare feet.
Quote: gameterrorThat's why I just proclaimed we have the BEST beer :-)
Ok, we take things up a notch: that's like claiming to have the cleanest sewage. Happy? :P
Quote:Why do you think wine is "more civilzed" ?
It tastes good and is a great ingredient for cooking.
Quote:I don't want other people stomping on my drink with their bare feet.
You don't mind people using their hands to make your food, and the human had is one of the dirtiest, bacterially speaking, things in the known universe. Besides, most grapes these days are crushed in perfectly clean machines.
Quote: NareedOk, we take things up a notch: that's like claiming to have the cleanest sewage. Happy? :P
kind of offensive if you ask me...
Quote: Nareed
It tastes good and is a great ingredient for cooking.
Not sure what that has to with civilized. But I guess you just don't like beer...different people, different tastes. no harm done
Quote: Nareed
You don't mind people using their hands to make your food, and the human had is one of the dirtiest, bacterially speaking, things in the known universe. Besides, most grapes these days are crushed in perfectly clean machines.
I guess I should have used one of those ;-)
But ppsttt, beer is brewed without using hands directly also...
Quote: gameterrorNot sure what that has to with civilized.
Just some poetic exageration.
Quote:But I guess you just don't like beer...different people, different tastes. no harm done
And it only took you this long to figure it out ;)
You know, the thing is people casually assume everyone likes beer. I run into that a lot. Worse yet, people also casually assume everyone likes seafood, fish and very loud music. In that hierarchy, beer can be shrugged off easily. The mere smell of fish and seafood (and cooked, raw or spoiled makes little difference), makes my digestive system try to run in reverse at full speed. Places with loud music make me want to kill myself as a blessed release ;)
Ah, but when I decline an invitation to torture myself at, say, a night club or a seafood restaurant, people look at me as if I were a Chinese-speaking Martian. Go figure. So I engage in some little, poetically exagerated payback now and then.
Because my last meeting today was exactly that...a big waste of time. To learn the spelling i'd advice to watch the following video of the german punk band "die toten hosen" (the dead trousers) singing "komm mit uns, verschwende deine zeit" (come along, waste your time).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBitGLjhca4
have fun!
verschwendungssüchtig -> (wildly) extravagant
It's using another common prefix "Ent-" which means taking away something. eg.
"Enterben" - taking away someones inheritance;
"Entlassen" - to let someone loss (from a job)
"Enteignen" - taking away someones property; by the government
so, "Entschuldigung" literally means to take someones guilt or fault away...
Quote: gameterrorNext word is "Entschuldigung"
This word I remember from school and needed no refresher except the spelling. I wonder why it stuck with me?
I did my usual googling and found you spell the guilt/fault word "tschuldigung" [to which correction google - amazingly - prodded me, I had left off the 't']
I came across: anschuldigung -> "incrimination, act of charging someone with a crime, accusation, implication, placing of blame " ; note this time there is no "t" before the 's' ! Maybe to hear it, it confuses with "Entschuldigung" if the 't' is left on, and this is undesirable.
Quote: MangoJ'tschuldigung' is not a proper word
Ach! Google as language instructor is perhaps not recommended!
