1910 Maryland license plate
Maryland was a little late getting on the ball with license plates, compared to most states on the east coast. The first year the state provided a license plate (before you were responsible to make your own) was 1910. They used what is probably the most feeble excuse for a license plate in the U.S. history. The metal was barely thicker than aluminum foil, a cheap quality at that, and paint equally as bad.
Because of this, very few 1910 Maryland license plates exist to this day. I would roughly estimate about 100 might be in the hands of collectors. What few there are are usually terribly ugly and an eyesore to look at. Today is the first time I've ever seen one come up at Ebay. As is typical for plates like this, it was repainted. Amateurs usually think that if you repaint an antique it goes up in value. NOT TRUE! With license plates even the best repaint job on top of the worst original paint causes it to go down in value, significantly. This point is made over and over on such shows at Pawn Stars and Antiques Roadshow about any kind of antique. Like many tag collectors, I won't even touch repaints, as I don't consider them to be a legitimate license plate any longer.
I apologize for boring the forum with a post on license plates, but I check Ebay for license plates almost daily, for at least a decade, so this is newsworthy to me at least.
folks can make one like that for less than $20 and sell for over $1000.
Well, for one thing, it says so right in the listing description:Quote: pokerfaceHow sure are you that the one (and similar ones on ebay) is repainted, not a fake?
For another, you can zoom in on the photo and see that there are parts that look fishy.Quote: eBayIt is used condition with an older repaint on it.
Wiz -
Before I saw that comment in the description, my own untrained eye decided that you're right about the repaint, but was wondering if it had been repainted back in the day, while it was still attached to a car.
If THAT'S the case, then wouldn't it be considered part of the normal usage and wear and tear rather than a misguided antique owner's attempt to clean it up?
Quote: WizardFor those who don't know, I'm a pretty avid license plate collector. Some may not know that I lived in Maryland from 1992 to 2001. Thus, I have a near complete collection of Maryland passenger license plates. I believe the only one I'm missing is the illusive 1910.
Maryland was a little late getting on the ball with license plates, compared to most states on the east coast. The first year the state provided a license plate (before you were responsible to make your own) was 1910. They used what is probably the most feeble excuse for a license plate in the U.S. history. The metal was barely thicker than aluminum foil, a cheap quality at that, and paint equally as bad.
Because of this, very few 1910 Maryland license plates exist to this day. I would roughly estimate about 100 might be in the hands of collectors. What few there are are usually terribly ugly and an eyesore to look at...
What are the laws regarding taking plates off wrecks, yard "art", or salvaged vehicles? If you come across an abandoned vehicle, can you just take the plate and sell it, or are there laws about them having to be returned as property of the state?
Several years ago, I bought a car that had vanity plates, and when I went to register it, the DMV lady said I had to return them to the person I bought the car from since they "owned" them. I told her that I bought the car with the plates on it, so I assume they were mine to keep. They gave me new license plates, and I kept the vanity set. Is this a typical practice?
Quote: DJTeddyBearIf THAT'S the case, then wouldn't it be considered part of the normal usage and wear and tear rather than a misguided antique owner's attempt to clean it up?
It doesn't matter what the motive is or when it was done, a repaint completely ruins the plate. At least for me and most collectors. New collectors are often fooled by them and tend to buy a lot because the prices on them are low and they do often look good.
Regarding the question about outright forgeries, that is a problem, mainly with "pre-states." Before the states gave you a license plate for your car they just told you your number and you had to make your own license plate or order one from a private company. These can be quite valuable, but given that fact that some where homemade, are very subject to counterfeiting. For later plates it is not as much of an issue. The fact that any given number is supposed to happen no more than twice is a good deterrent to mass producing them. The values are not enough to make creating them one at a time worthwhile.
The seller should have removed them and turned them in himself.Quote: AyecarumbaSeveral years ago, I bought a car that had vanity plates, and when I went to register it, the DMV lady said I had to return them to the person I bought the car from since they "owned" them. I told her that I bought the car with the plates on it, so I assume they were mine to keep. They gave me new license plates, and I kept the vanity set. Is this a typical practice?
Failure to do that means that he could be in trouble when he fails to renew the registration, or if the plates turn up on a different car somehow.
Quote: AyecarumbaWhat are the laws regarding taking plates off wrecks, yard "art", or salvaged vehicles? If you come across an abandoned vehicle, can you just take the plate and sell it, or are there laws about them having to be returned as property of the state?
I think in some states the license plates are technically property of the state. So even an old rusty one on an abandoned car would belong to the state. However, in practice, that is one of those things where "finders keepers" is the order of the day. There are license plate shows in all 50 states and I've never once heard of the police raiding a show to take their license plates back.
Quote:Several years ago, I bought a car that had vanity plates, and when I went to register it, the DMV lady said I had to return them to the person I bought the car from since they "owned" them. I told her that I bought the car with the plates on it, so I assume they were mine to keep. They gave me new license plates, and I kept the vanity set. Is this a typical practice?
That would have been the case in Maryland too. There the plates are associated with the owner, not the car. So when a used car is sold the plates are not supposed to transfer along with it. The opposite is true of California. When you sell a car the plates generally stay with it. I can't speak for any of the other 48 states.
Quote: WizardLike many tag collectors, I won't even touch repaints, as I don't consider them to be a legitimate license plate any longer.
I guess that's like finding the pair of shoes that perfectly match the dress, only they don't have them in your size :(
Good luck finding a good one.
Quote: NareedI guess that's like finding the pair of shoes that perfectly match the dress, only they don't have them in your size :(
It seems you brought the discussion to a crashing halt with that comment. Probably not the kind of thing that has happened to most guys on the forum, including me.
Quote: WizardI think in some states the license plates are technically property of the state. So even an old rusty one on an abandoned car would belong to the state. However, in practice, that is one of those things where "finders keepers" is the order of the day. There are license plate shows in all 50 states and I've never once heard of the police raiding a show to take their license plates back.
Some of this depends on what the state does with current plates. When I left NY I wanted to keep my plates. AZ didn't request a turn in when I registered the vehicle there, they just handed me new plates and said to put them on when I got home. Well, my insurnace company was having a cows, said I had to get the plates to NY. I eventually convinced them they were lost. Caused me an issue when I went for new insurance since it was a "policy cancel by carrier" but I got around that too.
NY requires plates be turned in, unless they are issuing a new plate. Then it is allowable to keep them though the state makes the nonsense claim that you shoud "deface" them so nobody else can use them. Just liability nonsensespeak.
Quote:That would have been the case in Maryland too. There the plates are associated with the owner, not the car. So when a used car is sold the plates are not supposed to transfer along with it. The opposite is true of California. When you sell a car the plates generally stay with it. I can't speak for any of the other 48 states.
I remember reading that in one New England State (NH IIRC) there is a status to a "low number" plate. To keep your old plate you have to keep the old car, even if you transfer the plate. People would buy near junk cars to get the plates! This was as late as the 1980s.
Quote: WizardIt doesn't matter what the motive is or when it was done, a repaint completely ruins the plate. At least for me and most collectors. New collectors are often fooled by them and tend to buy a lot because the prices on them are low and they do often look good.
Does plate-age matter on this? Plates didn't seem to standardize in size until after WWII. Older ones I can see how a repaint kills it. But I was at a car show once where they had lots of plates, mostly 1960s or so. They were selling repainted ones that I swear looked like they came from the prison shop that day.
BTW: Use might matter here. Car collectors like year-of-manufacture plates for their cars, and they want a new-looking plate on a sharp car. Plate collectors will more want the plate as-was-made.
Quote: WizardIt seems you brought the discussion to a crashing halt with that comment. Probably not the kind of thing that has happened to most guys on the forum, including me.
You've never been offered sympathy before?
Quote: HunterhillSo Wizard, do most collectors try to get one plate from each state or do they try to get every year from one state? Or what is the holy grail for plate collectors?
Personally, I started with trying to get one from each state. That is probably what sucks in a lot of collectors, but I've never really asked. I do know quite a few collectors have a job where they deal with license plates somehow and that is how they get them or develop the interest.
Sorry for taking three years to answer the question.
What really brought me back was there is another 1910 MD plate for auction. That, to answer your other question, is one of the Holy Grails for collectors. Certainly for collectors of Maryland plates, like me. Its out of my price range, but it is a beauty. As far as I know, the first 1910 MD to change hands since the plate I wrote about it in the OP.
Actually the "PC" indicates it was a commercial truck fitted with pneumatic tires.
Quote: BuzzardActually the "PC" indicates it was a commercial truck fitted with pneumatic tires.
I can't verify it stands for exactly that, but am about 90% sure they are generally used on some kind of truck. All other things being equal, they are worth less than standard car plates.
Quote: WizardPersonally, I started with trying to get one from each state. That is probably what sucks in a lot of collectors, but I've never really asked. I do know quite a few collectors have a job where they deal with license plates somehow and that is how they get them or develop the interest.
Sorry for taking three years to answer the question.
What really brought me back was there is another 1910 MD plate for auction. That, to answer your other question, is one of the Holy Grails for collectors. Certainly for collectors of Maryland plates, like me. Its out of my price range, but it is a beauty. As far as I know, the first 1910 MD to change hands since the plate I wrote about it in the OP.
Despite what the description says, it really looks like it has been repainted (there is even spray over yellow on the back). Is there an authentication/grading service similar to PCGS for coins? What does repainting do to the value?
Wiz might nuke me for this, but I do have several plates that I use. But my use means I use them for the steel. I found them to be super easy to use for all manner of repair. Just hammer the characters flat, cut to size, bend by hand, and viola! I use them to patch mufflers and exhausts, filled a hole in the firewall of my race car, just about anytime I need a bit o' metal, I go to my stack of plates. Sorry, future Wiz's of the world =/
Just a reminder, and no hurry, but still patiently waiting for your DT post of your plate collection history =)
Quote: FaceI use them for the steel. I found them to be super easy to use for all manner of repair.
That's the exact reason I kept a couple of GA plates when I moved to NC. Then I found a better use for one -- back in 2010 I made a gift of it to the Wizard! There's a photo of the event and plate in this post. I still have the other plate, one digit different.
Quote: DocThat's the exact reason I kept a couple of GA plates when I moved to NC. Then I found a better use for one -- back in 2010 I made a gift of it to the Wizard! There's a photo of the event and plate in this post. I still have the other plate, one digit different.
Did the Wiz claim this gift on his taxes. I must have
a double digit value.
Quote: FaceOnly plates I have for display are old, 80's era NY plates, back when they were the old blue and gold before they went to the horrible white, blue and red. No value here, they were just ones off my parent's bikes. Perfect condition, flawless registration stickers, I just like them.
Wiz might nuke me for this, but I do have several plates that I use. But my use means I use them for the steel. I found them to be super easy to use for all manner of repair. Just hammer the characters flat, cut to size, bend by hand, and viola! I use them to patch mufflers and exhausts, filled a hole in the firewall of my race car, just about anytime I need a bit o' metal, I go to my stack of plates. Sorry, future Wiz's of the world =/
Just a reminder, and no hurry, but still patiently waiting for your DT post of your plate collection history =)
I have several bird houses made from license plates. The birds love them and they make quite the conversation pieces. People are always offering to purchase them. Just the other day, I gave one to the UPS lady and she was thrilled. My friend makes them from plates that he gets from a mutual friend's junkyard.
Quote: DocI've seen ladies' handbags made of license plates -- bent to form box shapes and pop-riveted together, including hinges and clasps -- for sale at casino kiosks and gift shops in Las Vegas. No idea who makes them. I suspect the plates are "old" in the sense of being "formerly used", not "old" in the sense of being collectible.
I have also seen plates cut up so the symbols could be mixed and matched to spell names and such. I wonder where the craftsperson gets them. I thought plates were supposed to be returned to the State when a car was junked, no?
Quote: AyecarumbaDespite what the description says, it really looks like it has been repainted (there is even spray over yellow on the back). Is there an authentication/grading service similar to PCGS for coins? What does repainting do to the value?
I thought the same thing. The quality of the paint on the 1910 is so bad that you never see one in this good condition, especially the paint. However, if it is a repaint they did a great job and hit the colors exactly, as near as I can tell.
No, there is no grading service/authentication service for license plates, at least that I know of, and I think I would have heard of one if there were. I think the hobby is not quite big enough for that, but almost.
Grading used to be a very controversial topic in the hobby. Standards varied widely by geographic region and person to person. Collectors in the south east were notorious for lax grading standards. Calling a rusty POS "VG" was not unusual. There was also a grading inflation problem. It got to the point where a "good" condition really meant the plate was rusted clear through, little to no paint left, and lots of extra holes.
However, thanks to eBay and other license plate sites, you can easily see before you buy.
Finally, repainting a plate pretty much ruins it. To serious collectors, no paint is better than a great repaint job. However, car collectors also like vintage license plates and they are much more forgiving on repainted plates. That is probably why anybody bothers to repaint them.
Quote: AyecarumbaI have also seen plates cut up so the symbols could be mixed and matched to spell names and such. I wonder where the craftsperson gets them. I thought plates were supposed to be returned to the State when a car was junked, no?
Many do, however, there are ways around it.
Here in the People's Republic, simply keeping the plates may land you in a world of hurt. Even if you have an insurance lapse (maybe you didn't feel like insuring your plow truck for the summer) you have to turn them in immediately. Failure to turn them in will result in them suspending the registration for the vehicle in question, suspending your registration rights so you can't register anything else, and suspend your driver's license for 30 days or one day for every day the plates were out (thereby making it impossible for you to drive to the DMV rectify, but I digress =p)
Motorcycle and trailer plates are easier to acquire and don't have those same laws tied to them. If you want to keep car and truck plates, your best bet is to report them as stolen, remove them from service, and pay the replacement fee (~$30 - $40, last I knew).
Quote: Wizard
Finally, repainting a plate pretty much ruins it. To serious collectors, no paint is better than a great repaint job.
In the antique business, the only thing you
can get away with restoring is furniture.
And the really old furniture should never
be touched. Patina is priceless and impossible
to duplicate. On Pawn Stars, Rick is correct
when he scolds somebody for polishing an
item before they bring it in. They just ruined
the value.
Today I dropped my only t17 screw bit behind thus huge too heavy to move work cabinet. Well I needed it so I struggled to move it and found the following. Probably not worth anything since there is some damage but it was still a neat find.
To the plate collectors, how many do you display and how do you store them to prevent rust?
Quote: billryanVery nice find. How old is the house?
To the plate collectors, how many do you display and how do you store them to prevent rust?
The house was built in 1915. The previous owner bought the house in 1952. He died in 2013 at 96. I was given all the paper work with the house including the original bill of sale. He purchased the house for $3200.
Quote: GWAEToday I dropped my only t17 screw bit behind thus huge too heavy to move work cabinet. Well I needed it so I struggled to move it and found the following. Probably not worth anything since there is some damage but it was still a neat find.
Nice story. Unfortunately, the plate would be worth only about $50. That false wood paint job is one of a kind, as far as I know, in the license plate world. However, there is a glut of old PA license plates on the market and that one is very rusty. If you gave it a good soak in hydrochloric acid you would get rid of the rust, exposing the metal underneath, which will make it look better and increase the value. However, the dip will also fade the paint. I'd say it isn't worth the bother of messing with toxic chemicals, not to mention the issue of properly disposing of them afterward, which I would have no idea how to do, to get the value up to $100.
Too bad you didn't find a Maryland 1910 back there.
Funny story.....many years ago I drove a Honda Civic, 2008 I think, white. Don't remember the license plate, but let's call it 7DHG306. Anyway, I was driving home from school one day with some friends and I was waiting at a stop light, looking at the car in front of me, and I got super confused. My friend lookin' at me like, "Uhh....you ok? You look like you're confused or thinking about something." I couldn't quite figure it out....something seemed really odd. I'm sitting here at a red light, and I'm driving my car.....but the car in front of me is mine. It's the same license plate, same make/model/year/color. Then I realized the car's license plate in front of me was 7DHG307. How odd is that?
We both had the same car -- color, year, make and model, and the other person's license plate was 7DHG307 while mine was 7DHG306.
Maybe I'm wrong, but does the (CA) DMV issue your license plate based on what kind of car you have? Or is it just whatever is up next in line? Or is this less of a coincidence than I think?
In the 1980s, I was lucking enough to get a vanity New York Yankee plate- NY 15 with a Yankee logo.
A year goes by and I start getting tickets in the mail from Buffalo. I live 400 miles away on Long Island. I appeal and it turns out there was a NY 15 plate issued with a Buffalo Sabres logo. As well as one with an Islander logo. The tickets were dismissed, but the DMV recalled all the NY plates. They said it was a computer glich caused by a new system.
Quote: WizardNice story. Unfortunately, the plate would be worth only about $50. That false wood paint job is one of a kind, as far as I know, in the license plate world. However, there is a glut of old PA license plates on the market and that one is very rusty. If you gave it a good soak in hydrochloric acid you would get rid of the rest, exposing the metal underneath, which will make it look better and increase the value. However, the dip will also fade the paint. I'd say it isn't worth the bother of messing with toxic chemicals, not to mention the issue of properly disposing of them afterward, which I would have no idea how to do, to get the value up to $100.
Too bad you didn't find a Maryland 1910 back there.
I figured as much. My wife wants to frame it somehow and hang it. Finding these things almost makes me want to tear the walls down. So many stories on the net about finding things in walls. We have found 3 items now, so who knows what else there might or might not be.
Quote: RSWe both had the same car -- color, year, make and model, and the other person's license plate was 7DHG307 while mine was 7DHG306.
Maybe I'm wrong, but does the (CA) DMV issue your license plate based on what kind of car you have? Or is it just whatever is up next in line? Or is this less of a coincidence than I think?
No. I'm pretty sure what happened is the DMV gave the dealership a stack of sequential license plates pairs to give out as cars were sold. Just a coincidence the next buyer got the same model and color as you did, but not that remarkable.
When I lived there you got a temporary paper license plate from the dealer and the real ones in the mail later, but maybe things are different now.
